Greetings and Question.

[spacepilot]

Hi, I'm an absolute beginner in the shooting sport. I got my IZH-46M a couple weeks ago, and have been shooting in my apartment. Because I only have a little more than 5m of safe space in the hallway, I am using the air rifle target because it has a bullseye about half the size of the air pistol target. Hopefully shots in the black in my current set-up will mostly translate to shots in the black when I can get a 10m range and use the AP target. I also got some TQ-9 targets made by National Target. But they tear like crazy and it is hard to tell where the pellets went after 4,5 shots. I may try baking them next weekend and see if that helps.

Anyway, I have been reading this forum for several weeks now. I really appreciate pilkguns for hosting this forum, and the contributors for their excellent posts on this forum that have helped me a lot starting off in shooting. Although some discussions here are way over my head right now, I hope with time and work, I'll be able to improve my technique and gain more understanding of this sport.

I posted the following question on the Shooter's Lounge, and didn't get any response. I think I'll post it here:

I'd like to find an air pistol club near me so I can learn from other shooters and have some fun. I live in Lafayette, Indiana. The closest airgun club I have found is the Marion County Fish and Game Association (http://www.indyrange.com/agleague.htm), and they won't be in airgun season until this fall. I wonder if there are clubs that are shooting airguns in the summer, and preferably within an hour's drive from Lafayette, IN. Any information is appreciated.

[Fred Mannis]

I don't know of any AP shooting near you, but I suggest you consider attending the AMU AP & FP clinic and PTO at Fort Benning scheduled for the week of Sep 28. It is a great learning experience. Contact SFC Rick Merrill for details: richard.merrill@us.army.mil

[David Levene]

The site admin here, Shin, has produced a pdf file with 2 correctly scaled 5m targets on a sheet.

Not only is the black correctly reduced but so are the scoring rings.

The reason that they are reduced by a different amount is because the pellet diameter remains the same despite the reduced distance. On the reduced target the black therefore encroaches into the 6, it doesn't on the full sized one.

[joecon]

Welcome. Remember that when using targets at reduced ranges to change the height they are positioned to keep your arm position the same as when aiming at 10m. Target will be somewhat higher normally. Not sure of the extent this would negatively effect your development, but as it's easy to do why not.

[spacepilot]

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

David, I was aware of the properly reduced 5m and 6m targets, and actually printed them out when I first got the gun. But the printer paper I used didn't give clean holes. I like the quality of the Edelmann targets, so I plan to keep using their AR targets for now because its bull is the right size for my range. I also plan to print the 5m AP target on a piece of transparency, which I'll use to correctly score my shots (on the AR targets) when I participate in postal matches or when I want to see my progress.

joecon, I do have the heights of 1.4m and 1.5m marked on my backstop, and try to keep the bullseye in between to account for the shorter range. But I have not calculated exactly how high the bullseye at 5m should be to give the same angle of aim as a 1.4m high bullseye at 10m. Let's see, if my shooting eye is at ~1.65m, and I aim at ~1.35m (sub-6 hold) on a standard range, that's ~30cm of drop over ~10m. If the range is 5m, then the line of aim should drop 15cm, that means my hold should be aiming at 1.5m, and the center of the reduced target should be around 1.53m. Hmm, it seems I have been putting the target too low. I think I should mount my pellet trap a little higher when I get home to fix this problem.

Fred, thanks for the information about the AMU clinic. I wish I could take a week off work and go to a shooting camp. But my personal allowance account is already in the red after I got my pistol, lol. Well, it's still 2 months away, and maybe the missus will allow me to incur more deficit and go to Fort Benning if I get her a purse or something. ;)

[David Levene]

I also plan to print the 5m AP target on a piece of transparency, which I'll use to correctly score my shots (on the AR targets) when I participate in postal matches....

I'd make sure the competition rules allow you to do that if I were you. Even using correctly scaled targets, the scores achieved at reduced distances might not be comparable to those shot at the correct distance.

....that means my hold should be aiming at 1.5m, and the center of the reduced target should be around 1.53m.

By far the easiest way to check this is to set up a full-sized AP target at the correct height (1.4m above the firing point level) and distance (10m), come up on aim and ask someone to measure the height of the front sight above the ground. Next move to the reduced distance/target and set the target height so that the front sight is that same measured distance above the ground.

[spacepilot]

I'd make sure the competition rules allow you to do that if I were you. Even using correctly scaled targets, the scores achieved at reduced distances might not be comparable to those shot at the correct distance.

I see, David. I read on this forum that the reduced range causes some change in the sight picture. Also, the angular and parallel aiming errors will affect the score differently on a shorter range, even with correctly reduced score rings. That's part of reason that I'm not in a hurry to find out what my score is on the 5m target, because I know it's probably different from what I'll do on a 10m range. As for the competition rules, that is a valid concern. I read somewhere that you can back the printer paper with a piece of cardboard so clean holes can be punched. I'll probably experiment with that idea a little bit.

By far the easiest way to check this is to set up a full-sized AP target at the correct height (1.4m above the firing point level) and distance (10m), come up on aim and ask someone to measure the height of the front sight above the ground. Next move to the reduced distance/target and set the target height so that the front sight is that same measured distance above the ground.

Hmm, that does sound easier. I'll have to see if I can find a 10m unobstructed line of sight in my apartment.

[WRC]

There used to be a rifle club in Anderson (NE of Indianapolis), that hosted air rifle matches. Perhaps they have some interest in air pistol?? CP

[2650 Plus]

You have recieved very good advice and sugestions that will help you inprove your technique. Please dont worry about score yet, Instead evaluate the group you shoot. The smaller group tells you that you are being consistant in the technique that you are using. I would like to suggest that you study the very best information available and continue to develope the skill set that has the best potential for long range inprovement, The Pistol marksmanship manual written by the shooters at the USAMU and available through them at Fort Benning , on line at the bullseye forum and at the CMP , is in my opinion the best place to start you shooting library. Also see the information available from our host , specifically writings by the Russian coach. Read Steves Swartz's posts and Ed Halls writings. You might even pull up some of the things I have posted on this forum. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[spacepilot]

WRC:
Thank you for the information. I'll check that out and see if they have AP shooters there.

Bill:

Thank you for the advice. I have browsed through the Olympic Pistol forum and the Archive, and read most of the posts that caught my eye. Although many topics discussed are too advanced for me to understand now, I think some of them are greatly helpful for beginners like me. Following the recommendations from this forum, I have been reading the USAMU pistol guide and Yur' Yev's book. I've read some of the articles on our host's website, but found them in general more advanced than what I can appreciate right now. I hope I'll have a better understanding of them when I revisit them after a while. Is the Russian coach you mentioned Anatoliy Piddubnyy?

I haven't been paying attention to the scores. Internally, I am trying to make sure I pay as much attention to the front sight as possible and keep the sights aligned for every shot. Externally, I am trying to get my shots in the black. The last two sessions' shots showed a pattern: a vertical string of shots with some outsiders to the left, which are shown in the attached pictures. I think the string is there because my body is not used to holding the pistol up, therefore my vertical hold is bad. As for the outsiders, I think it's either the shot broke (by surprise) when the horizontal alignment happened to be bad, or because I was "sniping" the shots when the alignment was good, which disturbed my alignment. Does that sound reasonable? I think I'll set up my video camera and use it as a scope, and try to call my shots, so I can find out what I need to work on. One thing I have found out so far is that, as long as I keep my sights aligned, my hold can wobble in a big area, and my shots still end up in the black. Although getting in the black is not the same as shooting a 10, I think I kind of understand why sight alignment is the most important thing in a good shot.