Tearing Shot Holes

jimsoars · Post by **jimsoars** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:08 pm

I just started shooting AP again - my last regular shooting was back in the early 90s. I picked up a Pardini K60 and I am really enjoying shooting it. One odd thing is that I seem to get a lot of tears in the paper rather than clean holes. I don't remember this happening when I shot my FWB 65. I'm shooting RWS hobby pellets. The targets are a new batch of B40s from National Target. I also am shooting AR and don't seem to have the tearing problem with those targets.

So - is this normal, or could it be the targets, the pellets or AP velocity? I don't have a chrony - so I don't know the AP velocity.

Jim

Freepistol · Post by **Freepistol** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:08 am

Jim, I shoot Vogel in my Morini and was tearing holes until I turned up the velocity. I don't have a chronograph either, so I just cranked the adjustment an half turn and that did the trick. {Some of the tears only had an imprint of the pellet on the paper}
Ben

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:22 am

The National Targets use very poor quality paper. Try a pack of Edelmann targets and you will see the difference.

Brian M · Post by **Brian M** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:10 am

I put a backer of masking tape (2" wide, blue in color) to the bull area. This has eliminated the tearing problem I was having. IZH 46m's don't have a "velocity" setting, so I was forced to find another solution.

Takes a second or two for each target, but that's not really a big deal to me.

Brian

ShootingAir.com

jrmcdaniel · Post by **jrmcdaniel** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:09 am

Another technique is to paint the back of the target with clear lacquer. That stiffens the paper enough so that you get cleaner holes. Ultimately, you are better off using Edelmann or similar targets -- the paper quality is orders of magnitude better.

GaryN · Post by **GaryN** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:28 am

Many reasons

The target paper
- as Fred said some brands just don't punch nice
- too soft paper (I use 20# copy paper for some of my targets)

The solution I use for both of these is to put a piece of cardboard (any cardboard) right behind the target (target is taped to the cardboard). The cardboard acts like a cutting board, and the pellet can punch a clean hole on targets that otherwise won't punch clean.

Gary

jimsoars · Post by **jimsoars** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:17 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions....

The Edelman targets are 2x the price of the Nationals, so I'll try the other solutions first. I can increase my velocity so I'll try that first and see if it affects my groups. I already use a cardboard backer, but I shoot the backer out pretty quick. I'll try the tape option nect.

Thanks - Jim

cdf · Post by **cdf** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:44 am

jimsoars wrote:Thanks for all the suggestions....

The Edelman targets are 2x the price of the Nationals, so I'll try the other solutions first. I can increase my velocity so I'll try that first and see if it affects my groups. I already use a cardboard backer, but I shoot the backer out pretty quick. I'll try the tape option nect.

Thanks - Jim

For practice pourposes , you can see whats going on pretty well with a Edelman target for between 15 and 20 shots . The cheapies become pretty hard to interpret after between 8-10 shots . That takes some of the sting out of the price difference .

Chris

GaryN · Post by **GaryN** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:10 pm

Jim
I move the target around to different spots on the backer. That makes the backer last longer. I also collect cardboard (amazing all the cardboard in the stuff you buy) and have so much backers that my wife told me to STOP collecting cardboard.

Oh in my case, I tape the target to the backer, so it is easy to move the target around, and also to change backers.

HibouAttentif · Post by **HibouAttentif** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:03 pm

If I understand correctly the explanation I got from Cible Target, all paper is not created equal. The cheaper targets are made of paper paste that has long fibers. The better ones are made with a paste that has shorter fibers. With the short fibers, there is no tearing and the pellet cuts a clean hole.

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:12 pm

jimsoars wrote:...could it be the targets, the pellets or AP velocity? I don't have a chrony - so I don't know the AP velocity.Jim

Jim,

in answer to the original question, it could be either or both.

The target's contribution to tearing has been discussed, but if the velocity is the problem you could still have tearing even with Edelmann targets (or on Sius Ascor EST - which can jam the paper strip feed).

Even with good quality target paper, tearing will be a problem with velocities under (about) 340 fps.
These velocities are under the 390-400 fps recommended for CO2 pistols (PCP pistols usually higher than this).
- Sometimes people back of the velocity to get more shots per charge.
- Sometimes the pistol loses velocity with time (one of mine did - the velocity adj screw was loose and the velocity dropped a bit each time I used it)
- Sometimes it is caused by a mechanical problem.

I suggest you buy, beg or borrow a chronograph and check the velocity.

Spencer

jrmcdaniel · Post by **jrmcdaniel** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:42 am

The paper both Cible and National use is horrid IMHO. National used to have much better paper but switched about 2 years ago. The only batch of targets I got from Cible was very bad. I have never regretted spending the extra money for Edelmann or similar targets -- you can practice cheaper since you can put a lot more pellets through them and still read scores; something cheap targets will not allow.

Best,

Joe

Mike Taylor · Post by **Mike Taylor** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:55 pm

My experience with Cibles Canada Targets air pistol targets does not parallel Joe's experience. While possibly a step down from Edelmann, the CCT targets I have do not readily tear - even with five shots scoring in the ten-ring. I'm using a CO2 Steyr LP10, but I have not measured its velocity.
YMMV
Mike T.

somewhereinla · Post by **somewhereinla** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:37 pm

jrmcdaniel wrote:The paper both Cible and National use is horrid IMHO. National used to have much better paper but switched about 2 years ago. The only batch of targets I got from Cible was very bad. I have never regretted spending the extra money for Edelmann or similar targets -- you can practice cheaper since you can put a lot more pellets through them and still read scores; something cheap targets will not allow.

Best,

Joe

I am actually very surprised as well. The first target I ever bought were NRA target, which were absolutely terrible, I could never get a clean hole. I then understood that the extra cost for good paper target was really worth it. I bought Edelmann targets, which are great. This is what I use at home. When I shoot a match, we use Kruger targets which are equally good. I bought my last supply of pellets from a guy in Canada that sales AP and AR supplies on ebay including Edelmann targets and Cibles targets. I asked him to send me some samples to try out. The paper is not as thick as the Edelmann's but the hole are as clean, I would highly recommend them to anyone.
I will definitely buy a batch the next time I need targets, especially with the Dollar so low, AP is getting really expensive.

Viggen · Post by **Viggen** » Sat May 10, 2008 8:57 pm

Some backing for the tearing target seemed a good idea.
So, having some duct tape laying around and not being able to find any masking tape, I applied a couple of strips to the back of the target. Such a difference a bit of duck tape makes. The idea works great.
Thank you for the great suggestion.

JoeG · Post by **JoeG** » Sun May 11, 2008 10:40 pm

I totally agree with Fred and some of the others mentioning the very real superiority of the Edelmann targets compared to all the others (and I have tried them all). As stated you can also get a lot more practice shots on one target and still be able to read the results clearly. Lastly, regardless of which targets you use proper storage of targets is key to getting the best results and cleanest holes. I keep my targets in a zip lock type back with dessicant drying packs inside and keep that whole package in a tupperware type container. This really seems to do the trick to keep them dry and fresh for extremely long periods of storage. Best regards, Joe G.

jimsoars · Post by **jimsoars** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:14 pm

The verdict is in - it is definitely the targets. As I was cleaning out the basement htis weekend I ran across a box with some AP targets I had from the early 90s. No special storage - just sitting in a box with some other junk. There were about a dozen so I just tossed them in the pile with my new targets. Tonite when I went to shoot I grabbed the top one, which was an old one and man what a difference. I shot about 25 shots with NO tearing and could still read all the shots.

I'm sold - good targets are a bargain. Now I'll get some samples and see what i like.
Jim

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Tearing Shot Holes

Tearing Shot Holes

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