I have Ransom Rest tested several brands of ammunition in High Standards. Bottom line is ALL of the SV brands are good enough for a shooter who's groups are 12".
Eley tested 3/4"-1" and was clearly the best in 4-5 different guns. On the other end, the worst ammo tested about 1 1/2" (all at 50yds.) These were usually 10 shot groups. If shooting continued into the same group, by 50 or so shots, the group always expanded by about a half inch. One barrel did show worse than all this, but a recrown corrected that.
Here is a 50 shot target shot from sandbags with Remington SV despite its occasional dud. Training duds are a good thing when you can evaluate your trigger and followthrough.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/t ... victor.jpg
This says a lot:
"I don't know what the most accurate ammo is in my pistol because I haven't shot long enough for that to matter yet."
Now stop thinking score like here:
On my best day I shoot about a 12" group slow fire at 50yds (really 6" at 25yds, but I'll scale everything up), give or take. So the best case scenario for me would be to find an ammo that will bring me down to a 10" group, povided that what I'm already shooting is all over the place.
If I move all of my shots 1" closer to the center (which isn't really what would happen) I go from a 75 to an 81 on one of my recent slow fire targets, a 6 point bump.
I think the way the math really works is that it would be more like moving half of the shots 1" closer, or maybe moving all of them 1/2" closer. So really I'd be looking at going from 75 to 78 or so, worst case to best case.
I'd take 3 points, but 3 points in the 70s is much different than 3 points in the 90s.
...and take that 12" group onto blank target backs at 25 yds. See the 22 drills in the workbook here:
http://www.brianzins.com/USMCShooter.php
22LR High Standard Bullet Choice
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
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2650 Plus
22 Ammo
I certainly dont pretend to be an expert on 22 ammo, Having spent 50 years outshooting my 22 scores with both the 38 and 45 wad cutter and service hard ball. I just sent a ruger 22/45 to Jim Clark for a full up grade and was surprised to learn that he tests with CCI standard velocity for all the pistols he refits with new barrels. Maybe because it cheepest but also because he gets small enough groups to impress his customers. I do believe the CCI is certainly worth testing and its sold at a reasonable price Good Shooting Bill Horton
I've tried a variety of cheap .22 ammunition in my Pardini. They all seem to shoot reasonably accurately, at least at 25 yards. The real issue for me has been reliability. Until recently, I was shooting CCI Std. Velocity for matches, and cheaper stuff for practice. I stopped using CCI when I started getting duds. A friend of mine, who is a high master, told me that this has become a common problem with CCI in recent years.
There is also the issue of how 'hot' the load is. My Pardini has become unreliable, due to the large number of rounds that I've put through it (50,000+). Larry Carter told me that what happens with rimfire guns is that over time, the breach tends to get peened over slightly, making the rear of the chamber smaller than the front of the chamber. When this happens, the shell won't extract reliably because it expands in the chamber when the gun is fired and the front of the shell expands to a greater diameter than the rear of the chamber.
This is exactly the problem that I was having. I frequently couldn't get through a single magazine without a failure-to-extract alibi.
As a quick fix, while waiting for a new barrel, I lapped the back of the chamber thoroughly with JB Bore Bright to open it up slightly. I also switched to hotter ammunition. When I made the switch, I also chrongraphed the various types of ammunition that I had been using. In order of increasing muzzle energy (out of my 4 inch barrel) they are:
- RWS Target Rifle (65.2 ft. lbs.)
- Golden Eagle (71.6 ft. lbs.)
- Eley Sport (74.9 ft. lbs.)
- Aguila Std. Velocity (78.0 ft. lbs.)
- Federal 714 (81.1 ft. lbs.)
- CCI Std. Velocity (83.3 ft. lbs.)
- Federal 745 (88.1 ft. lbs.)
The RWS Target Rifle is the round that Don Nygord recommended for the Pardini. It is not only accurate, but the low muzzle energy translates into low recoil, making the gun feel almost like shooting an air pistol.
The Eley Sport is the round used by Rich Kang, a high master who has won the last two 2700 matches in my area (the Delaware State Indoor Pistol Championship and the Maryland State Indoor Pistol Championship).
The Federal 714 appears to be sold exclusively by Dick's Sporting Goods.
The Federal 745 works well in my deteriorated barrel. It is a high velocity hollow-point round (I won't be using it in New Jersey) that has relatively low muzzle energy (the bullet weighs 36 grains rather than the normal 40 grains for standard velocity rounds). The recoil is substantially greater with this round, and I find that it causes fatigue in my wrist and arm when I shoot a lot of it in one session. I also get an occasional dud.
None of these rounds is supersonic when shot from my 4 inch barrel, but all are within the transonic range, although the RWS Target Rifle is at the low end of this range. This is important because as you move up into the transonic range, the bullet experiences turbulence effects in flight which degrade accuracy, particularly at 50 yards (the turbulence has a longer time to act on the bullet).
I just got my new barrel (I haven't tried it yet) and I intend to switch to the RWS Target Rifle for matches, provided that it will cycle the gun reliably, and the Eley Sport for practice. The RWS Target Rifle is more expensive than the other stuff, although the price of all ammunition has been going through the roof lately.
There is also a book, "The Rifleman's Guide to Rimfire Ammunition", by Steven Boelter, that provides accuracy test results for a large number of ammunition types.
Regards,
Al B.
There is also the issue of how 'hot' the load is. My Pardini has become unreliable, due to the large number of rounds that I've put through it (50,000+). Larry Carter told me that what happens with rimfire guns is that over time, the breach tends to get peened over slightly, making the rear of the chamber smaller than the front of the chamber. When this happens, the shell won't extract reliably because it expands in the chamber when the gun is fired and the front of the shell expands to a greater diameter than the rear of the chamber.
This is exactly the problem that I was having. I frequently couldn't get through a single magazine without a failure-to-extract alibi.
As a quick fix, while waiting for a new barrel, I lapped the back of the chamber thoroughly with JB Bore Bright to open it up slightly. I also switched to hotter ammunition. When I made the switch, I also chrongraphed the various types of ammunition that I had been using. In order of increasing muzzle energy (out of my 4 inch barrel) they are:
- RWS Target Rifle (65.2 ft. lbs.)
- Golden Eagle (71.6 ft. lbs.)
- Eley Sport (74.9 ft. lbs.)
- Aguila Std. Velocity (78.0 ft. lbs.)
- Federal 714 (81.1 ft. lbs.)
- CCI Std. Velocity (83.3 ft. lbs.)
- Federal 745 (88.1 ft. lbs.)
The RWS Target Rifle is the round that Don Nygord recommended for the Pardini. It is not only accurate, but the low muzzle energy translates into low recoil, making the gun feel almost like shooting an air pistol.
The Eley Sport is the round used by Rich Kang, a high master who has won the last two 2700 matches in my area (the Delaware State Indoor Pistol Championship and the Maryland State Indoor Pistol Championship).
The Federal 714 appears to be sold exclusively by Dick's Sporting Goods.
The Federal 745 works well in my deteriorated barrel. It is a high velocity hollow-point round (I won't be using it in New Jersey) that has relatively low muzzle energy (the bullet weighs 36 grains rather than the normal 40 grains for standard velocity rounds). The recoil is substantially greater with this round, and I find that it causes fatigue in my wrist and arm when I shoot a lot of it in one session. I also get an occasional dud.
None of these rounds is supersonic when shot from my 4 inch barrel, but all are within the transonic range, although the RWS Target Rifle is at the low end of this range. This is important because as you move up into the transonic range, the bullet experiences turbulence effects in flight which degrade accuracy, particularly at 50 yards (the turbulence has a longer time to act on the bullet).
I just got my new barrel (I haven't tried it yet) and I intend to switch to the RWS Target Rifle for matches, provided that it will cycle the gun reliably, and the Eley Sport for practice. The RWS Target Rifle is more expensive than the other stuff, although the price of all ammunition has been going through the roof lately.
There is also a book, "The Rifleman's Guide to Rimfire Ammunition", by Steven Boelter, that provides accuracy test results for a large number of ammunition types.
Regards,
Al B.
I'll do that when I see him again. We're both scheduled to shoot in the 2700 match at the Delaware State Pistol Club this weekend, but I believe he is shooting in the Saturday afternoon relay, and I'm shooting in the Sunday afternoon relay. I may just go down on Saturday afternoon anyway so that I can watch the high masters shoot.Scott H. wrote:Please say hello to Rich Kang, from his old shooting buddies at Coraopolis District Sportsmen.
Regards,
Al B.
when I started, I bought 100 rounds of every smmo I could find localy and actualy afford to shoot. Bench tested them all against one of the bottom Eleys. Found the best price compromise was CCI std...on my High Standard. Did it again when I got my Pardini and found it would shoot many brands well. settled on Aquilla for practice and Wolf Match for matches.Scott H. wrote:sol,
My point was not to extoll the virtues of Remington SV. My point was that .22's do seem to have their favorite ammo, and that trying a variety is a good idea.
give Remington sub sonic a try if it will cycle your gun. It was much better than Rem. Tgt.
recoil buffer in combo with HV 22 ammo
The M-41 can be fitted with a recoil buffer which eliminates frame/slide contact upon firing. Those of you concerned about battering a frame to the point of crackingan spend 8$ and breathe easy.