Hello, we are beginners in 22 prone.
I have a 1912 anshutz with free style stock flat butt plate weight 6kg. I am right handed. My problem is after 2 sessions about 2 hours each my left shoulder, collar bone, left side of my neck is so painful I find it very distracting. I have this pain all day/night. I shot again today, same jambed up left side...any help fellas??????
My wife has a remington 37 also 6kg. She shot about a week ago, setting up sling, handstop etc. Today she wanted to shoot but her left wrist [also right handed] had so much pain she couldn't shoulder the rifle to take one shot. She tried different positions with her left elbow but nothing helped.
We know our forearms are above the 30 degree angle. We have the Ways of the Rifle book, have read through it, and think we know what we are doing but it hurts way too much. Help!?
Mr. and Mrs. 1000yds
prone pain and passion
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Yes, it hurts. I am going to assume you have everything adjusted right and the sling is not too tight but I have to say the wrist pain sounds like you might not be holding your wrist straight but maybe at an angle.
Best way to get use to the pain is to practice under match conditions. Set your timer for 20 minutes and shoot 20 record rounds. Take the rifle down and rest as needed but be sure to observe the 20 minutes. If you finish early let the clock run out and rest. Then give your self 5 minutes for a target change then reset to twenty minutes for twenty shots. After the second paper rest for twenty full minutes before resuming shooting. Repeat.
Might not make the pain any better but it will get you use to match conditions.
I see you are Long Range shooters, I do that too. If your planning on shooting mostly LR and smallbore is for training only use the time allotment and match procedure your use to in LR.
Example, for smallbore its a good idea to keep the rifle in your shoulder for the entire string (if you can), for LR I take the rifle down after each shot to reset my position due to the position being disturbed by the heavy recoil.
Questions? Please ask.
Best way to get use to the pain is to practice under match conditions. Set your timer for 20 minutes and shoot 20 record rounds. Take the rifle down and rest as needed but be sure to observe the 20 minutes. If you finish early let the clock run out and rest. Then give your self 5 minutes for a target change then reset to twenty minutes for twenty shots. After the second paper rest for twenty full minutes before resuming shooting. Repeat.
Might not make the pain any better but it will get you use to match conditions.
I see you are Long Range shooters, I do that too. If your planning on shooting mostly LR and smallbore is for training only use the time allotment and match procedure your use to in LR.
Example, for smallbore its a good idea to keep the rifle in your shoulder for the entire string (if you can), for LR I take the rifle down after each shot to reset my position due to the position being disturbed by the heavy recoil.
Questions? Please ask.
"Where the heck did that 8 come from?!"
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Telecomtodd
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:15 pm
- Location: Saint Charles, MO
My son's prone position development caused a lot of pain in his left hand (he's right handed), and it was going down into his wrist. A lot of that discomfort was due to the lack of use of certain muscle groups, and like Hip said, the wrist has to be relatively straight. Be able to look at your outstretched hand and see how your wrist is positioned, and that's about how it should be in prone. One of our Juniors coaches who knows I'm a shooter said my son was just whining and he'd get used to it. She was right, and now my son laughs about it.
Aside from sling adjustment, look at where your handstop location is. I'm 5-10 and my son is 6-1 and his arms are considerably longer than mine. His handstop point is two full inches further down the forestock than my setting. You might want to try holding the forestock where it feels natural, and then adjust from there.
Also, the sling and your bone structure should be supporting your position, not your muscle groups. Make sure the sling is on tightly and pulled to the topmost part of your upper arm or you will be fighting it with a muscle group.
Another thing to do besides the 20 minute rule is to simply cut your ammo into groups - 10 rounds or 20 rounds, and then rest. My firing rate (and my son's too) is a bit faster than 1 shot per 1 minute, so sometimes we'll divide the ammo up on his wooden block so he knows when to rest or switch positions so he doesn't over-do it.
After shooting in a tight position for two whole hours, most folks would be feeling some element of pain!
Todd
Aside from sling adjustment, look at where your handstop location is. I'm 5-10 and my son is 6-1 and his arms are considerably longer than mine. His handstop point is two full inches further down the forestock than my setting. You might want to try holding the forestock where it feels natural, and then adjust from there.
Also, the sling and your bone structure should be supporting your position, not your muscle groups. Make sure the sling is on tightly and pulled to the topmost part of your upper arm or you will be fighting it with a muscle group.
Another thing to do besides the 20 minute rule is to simply cut your ammo into groups - 10 rounds or 20 rounds, and then rest. My firing rate (and my son's too) is a bit faster than 1 shot per 1 minute, so sometimes we'll divide the ammo up on his wooden block so he knows when to rest or switch positions so he doesn't over-do it.
After shooting in a tight position for two whole hours, most folks would be feeling some element of pain!
Todd
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1000yds
Thank you,
While sitting here, I moved my hand around and I felt the pain when I moved it to the right. Today while shooting I felt like my wrist was twisted but I couldn't see the angle underneath the glove and jacket. I wanted to move the stock onto the fatty thumb pad but I couldn't find what else need to be adjusted to be comfortable and stable.
Another piece of information that may be useful, is that my rifle tends to want to cant to the right. I am finding it very difficult to get a left cant. I have moved my left elbow position but just can't seem to find the spot.
Mrs. 1000yds
While sitting here, I moved my hand around and I felt the pain when I moved it to the right. Today while shooting I felt like my wrist was twisted but I couldn't see the angle underneath the glove and jacket. I wanted to move the stock onto the fatty thumb pad but I couldn't find what else need to be adjusted to be comfortable and stable.
Another piece of information that may be useful, is that my rifle tends to want to cant to the right. I am finding it very difficult to get a left cant. I have moved my left elbow position but just can't seem to find the spot.
Mrs. 1000yds
A picture is worth 1000 words. Why not post some photos of your position(s)? Not necessarily with shooting jacket on and without the glove so that we can see your hand position.Another piece of information that may be useful, is that my rifle tends to want to cant to the right. I am finding it very difficult to get a left cant. I have moved my left elbow position but just can't seem to find the spot.
Rutty
You will get wrist pain if you shoot prone with the forarm of the rifle laying in the palm of your hand. The rifle must lay on the meaty part of the base of the thumb, and you will probably have to move your left elbow slightly to the right (toward the rifle) in order to get the proper position.
Your husband MAY be in too hgih a position with upper back and neck bent upward, but that usually doesn't happen with 30 degree arm angle. Two hours at a session is a lot, until you get your body used to it (even then it is harded and harder to stay in position as I get older).
Hope hti shelps.
Your husband MAY be in too hgih a position with upper back and neck bent upward, but that usually doesn't happen with 30 degree arm angle. Two hours at a session is a lot, until you get your body used to it (even then it is harded and harder to stay in position as I get older).
Hope hti shelps.
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Guest
From my own experience, pain in the left hand side could be caused by:
-having the sling too short, son that it strains the back of the left arm, and left hand/wrist.
-The sling being too long, so the left arm supports the rifle.
-The handstop pinching the hand, either too low or in my case having a gap at the top (Anschutz 4751).
-Having the handstop in-line with the barrel, so the left-hand edge of the stock sat on my thumb muscle.
-Sling buckle digging into wrist.
-The stock being too wide and biting the thumb muscle.
-Placing too much body weight on the left arm.
I'd also agree that a two hour session will leave you tired. Although it shouldn't be really painful. I see pain as like a safety fure, it's there to tell you something is wrong and to stop.
How do you get into position. I find it easier to clip on the sling, and to push my hand through it while keeling. This creates slack, and is easier as I have freer movement of my arm, so I can get my hand butted properly against the handstop.
Tim S
Exeter UK
-having the sling too short, son that it strains the back of the left arm, and left hand/wrist.
-The sling being too long, so the left arm supports the rifle.
-The handstop pinching the hand, either too low or in my case having a gap at the top (Anschutz 4751).
-Having the handstop in-line with the barrel, so the left-hand edge of the stock sat on my thumb muscle.
-Sling buckle digging into wrist.
-The stock being too wide and biting the thumb muscle.
-Placing too much body weight on the left arm.
I'd also agree that a two hour session will leave you tired. Although it shouldn't be really painful. I see pain as like a safety fure, it's there to tell you something is wrong and to stop.
How do you get into position. I find it easier to clip on the sling, and to push my hand through it while keeling. This creates slack, and is easier as I have freer movement of my arm, so I can get my hand butted properly against the handstop.
Tim S
Exeter UK
Dear Mr & Mrs 1000Yards,
I find it strange you are finding so much discomfort shooting small bore prone, especially when I conclude from your psuedo-name that you also shoot long range prone. I too do both. I try very hard to make sure I set up my smallbore prone position as close as possible to my high power prone position, even though the rifles are a different configuration. That being said, I adjust the hand stop, and butt plate so that the angles and pressure feel similar from discipline to discipline.
First do you experience the same pain when you shoot high power rifle? If not, you are doing something very different from discipline to discipline.
I would suggest getting set up with your high power rifles, in a prone position you find comfortable. Have your spouse take a picture with a digital camera (or phone). Next, get set up in your small bore prone position, and take some more pictures. Study the pictures, and try to determine what you are doing differently in small bore versus high power.
Judging from what you are writing, I would look at three things: 1) sling tension ( to tight (short) or loose (long), 2) hand stop position ( too far out will cause too much extension of the arm, too far in will cause pinching, a funny twisting of the wrist and excessive tightness), and 3) how far the butt plate is extended (if it is adjustable).
Good luck.
John
I find it strange you are finding so much discomfort shooting small bore prone, especially when I conclude from your psuedo-name that you also shoot long range prone. I too do both. I try very hard to make sure I set up my smallbore prone position as close as possible to my high power prone position, even though the rifles are a different configuration. That being said, I adjust the hand stop, and butt plate so that the angles and pressure feel similar from discipline to discipline.
First do you experience the same pain when you shoot high power rifle? If not, you are doing something very different from discipline to discipline.
I would suggest getting set up with your high power rifles, in a prone position you find comfortable. Have your spouse take a picture with a digital camera (or phone). Next, get set up in your small bore prone position, and take some more pictures. Study the pictures, and try to determine what you are doing differently in small bore versus high power.
Judging from what you are writing, I would look at three things: 1) sling tension ( to tight (short) or loose (long), 2) hand stop position ( too far out will cause too much extension of the arm, too far in will cause pinching, a funny twisting of the wrist and excessive tightness), and 3) how far the butt plate is extended (if it is adjustable).
Good luck.
John
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1000yds
thank you for your replies. we are building a 50 bmg, hence the name, we will shoot off a bipod and bench so we have no prone experience. we got the 22 rifles to practice shooting long range,wind,mirage,etc. the accuracy of these rifles totally shocked us[3/4 inch @ 200m] with scopes. we were told to do these rifles justice by shooting open sights prone. we thought shooting at only 50m lying down tied up with a leather strap piece of cake HA!!!!
i have never tried any other shooting position that was this hard, including our standing air rifle. as soon as we heal up a little we will try again.
we appreciate your support, we are more determined now to learn this position then ever.
Thank you
MR/MRS 1000yds
i have never tried any other shooting position that was this hard, including our standing air rifle. as soon as we heal up a little we will try again.
we appreciate your support, we are more determined now to learn this position then ever.
Thank you
MR/MRS 1000yds
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1000yds
i gave prone another try yesterday,i moved the cheek rest up and it helped a little. i moved the hand stop forward and moved the sling off the top of my wrist to under the wrist bone.i tried to place my left elbow in line with my wrist and stay under the rifle but i wasn,t able to get my right elbow to touch the ground. so i moved my left elbow to the left and when i could reach the ground with my right elbow my left shoulder ,bicep and upper chest started the severe pain.
any help,i really thank you for any sugestions .
1000yds
any help,i really thank you for any sugestions .
1000yds
Get into position without the rifle, get comfortable, then have someone put the rifle on your extended hand and move the forend stop to touch the hand. You should be able to do this and remain comfortable, if not you may have too long a buttstock which would force your right shoulder backwards and put a twist in your upper torso (putting excess pressure on your left side).
We had all assumed you were a seasoned prone shooter due to your sign-on, so skipped the basics of building a position first without the firearm.
Also, look for two books "The New Position Rifle Shooting" bu Pullum & Hannekrat, and "Rifle Shooting by Nancy", by Nancy Tompkins.
We had all assumed you were a seasoned prone shooter due to your sign-on, so skipped the basics of building a position first without the firearm.
Also, look for two books "The New Position Rifle Shooting" bu Pullum & Hannekrat, and "Rifle Shooting by Nancy", by Nancy Tompkins.
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1000yds
these groups were shot on a bench with rests and a 36x scope i don't know why your surprised my wife has shot them also and she has very little shooting experience. we shoot the groups with cci green tag ammo. i am not saying every group was 3/4 inch some flyer shot would open the group out to 6 inches , that wind is some hard #@*" to learn.
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Guest
Try not to place your left elbow under the rifle, as this will put too much weight and stress on the left shoulder. If you keep your left elbow a few inches to the side, this will be more comfortable and support the rifle better.
Pat McCoy's advice is good. You want to avoid adapting your body position to fit the rifle, make the rifle fit you! A good prone position should be comfortable. Once you have roughly set the handstop using Pat's method, experiment with the sling. The sling should be taut when holding the rifle, but not so tight that it pulls on the supporting arm, or makes it difficult to keep the butt in your right shoulder, without twisting your body.
One tip is when you have the sling attached to the rifle, your hand wound through the sling, and are laying down, don't lift the rifle into your shoulder with your right hand on the grip. Put your thumb on the buttplate and tuck the butt in over your collarbone, rolling the shoulder joint around the butt as you take away your hand. This will hold the butt much tighter.
Good luck
Tim S
Exeter UK
Pat McCoy's advice is good. You want to avoid adapting your body position to fit the rifle, make the rifle fit you! A good prone position should be comfortable. Once you have roughly set the handstop using Pat's method, experiment with the sling. The sling should be taut when holding the rifle, but not so tight that it pulls on the supporting arm, or makes it difficult to keep the butt in your right shoulder, without twisting your body.
One tip is when you have the sling attached to the rifle, your hand wound through the sling, and are laying down, don't lift the rifle into your shoulder with your right hand on the grip. Put your thumb on the buttplate and tuck the butt in over your collarbone, rolling the shoulder joint around the butt as you take away your hand. This will hold the butt much tighter.
Good luck
Tim S
Exeter UK
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1000yds
thank you for your advice i have put it to good use. i put the apple box out and tryed different things inside with no sling. i lengthened the butt and moved the hand stop forward the biggest discovery i found today was the hand stop. i have been placing the hand stop ball in the web of my left hand, i straightened my hand to a more natural angle and found that the ball settles on the index finger knuckle NO MORE SHOULDER PAIN!!!! i found a good angle to place pressure on both elbows . i am now trying different sling hight on my left arm,i have it up as high as my kurt thune adjustment can go but i will play with this more . the information this forum has offered has been priceless thank you so much, i can't imagine trying to figure this prone position out on my own i will take this to the outdoor range and try it out,5 shots at a time with a 5 minute break in between strings i also have realized how important it is to build up my" in position time "
1000yds
1000yds