Prone recoil impulse @ odd angle

[brooksharris]

I shoot prone SB with a fully adjustable stock and buttplate; high sling placement; med. high position and my recoil impulse is toward 2:30 and then it returns to natural point of aim from the same angle or lower. I've talked to others who describe closer to a 12:00 o'clock recoil impulse and that would seem preferable. I have tried lowering and raising my position but the angle remains the same. Any suggestions appreciated. Brooks +

[WarWagon]

Used to have a similar problem and made three changes to correct it.

-Changed the sling location, not the height, but adjusted the angle between my forearm and the sling.

-Cant: canted the buttplate to the right, effectively angling the rifle slightly to the left.

-Hand tension: Realized I was putting too much tension on the thumbhole area with the palm of my hand. Slightly increased the length of my buttplate and relaxed my trigger hand to a greater extent.

[isuguncoach]

Brookharris,

Try putting your supporting hand a little further under the rifle. A little more of your fingers out the left side of the rifle (assuming you are righthanded.)

Joe

[Guest]

A recoil to the right is often an indication that the support elbow is too far away from the rifle. Try moving your elbow under the rifle a little. You could also try to bring in the right elbow a little to give more resistance to the recoils left-right movement.
Hope this helps

Phil

[brooksharris]

This AM I have done the following: Turned the buttplate out away from me, turned it into me, raised it, brought my handstop in, moved handstop out to R. side, and increased LOP...each change 1 at a time. In my original post I described the impulse as toward 2:30 but it's actually 3:00. Some of the above changes actually moved it to 3:30. I am capable of good scores, but there just seems to me to be something fundamentally wrong with what I'm experiencing; i.e., no other guns I shoot recoil sideways. I'd really appreciate other suggestions and hearing what you and other SB prone shooters see when the shot goes off. In HIM, brooks +

[Guest]

Some further thoughts would be:

Head/cheekpiece fit: Could you be pushing aginast the cheekpeice to aim

Sling length; too long a sling could cause the position to sag to the right (though i'd expect low right, not high-ish right)

Trigger pull

Finally are your shots good? If they are, is the odd recoild angle really a problem?

Tim S

Exeter UK

[brooksharris]

Humbly Tim I'm distinguished in prone and service rifle but never had a lesson and have managed some success thru tenacity and not finesse. I feel I could shoot more pure strings if the impulse was what all the authors tell us and show us. Here are a few of my changes: I normally have the top half of the buttplate turned in for comfort and have turned it in more, back to neutral and outward to the R. with the only detectable difference being comfort. I've taken the hook off and that noticeably loosens the position. I've turned the hook all 3 ways also. I've altered my R. elbow by moving it in tight and moving it out, and I've moved the handstop in, out, and laterally (Mec)...no change for the better., and my contact point on the handstop. I'm squared away with NPA, bone support and muscle relaxation. I've reread every book and article I've gathered over the years and made about 60 changes in the last 3 days to no avail. Do you or any of the other members know an upper level coach whom I could go visit?

[WarWagon]

Brooks: Where are you located? May be a little easier to make a coaching recommendation that way.

[brooksharris]

Nashville, Tennessee

[metermatch]

I have to admit, this is a new one to me - that the recoil needs to be at 12 o'clock. I learn something new every day. I think I am closer to 11 o'clock or 1 o'clock, I forget which...

OK, I will buy it some, makes sense. But don't lose sight of the fact that what you need to learn is how to do the same thing every time. Not just to do it like some book says. By the time you reach master level, you are starting to think for yourself, and may do a few unorthodox things. Just mke it recoil the same.

But, I think I know what you are doing: you are using muscles to hold rifle on aim, and when gun recoils, it is directed by the muscle tension you have built in to your position.

I was kind of doing the same thing for a while, until I went to the Olympic Training Center in 1989, and was able to use the then state of the art infra-red laser on my rifle. They had a camera on the target, and you could see my hold on the target, heartbeat and all! (basically the same as a modern day RIKA or NOPTEL). Coach Richard Domey was able to see that as I was settling down on my target, at times while wiggling left and right, he noticed that I had a tendency to throw the shots in the direction I had settled the rifle from. I was putting sideways tension on the rifle!

So my recommendation would be to forget all of the adjustments you are trying. Go back to your original setup, and go shoot. Make sure you are totally relaxed left to right, with no tension, and see if the problem goes away.

Jeff

[dgold]

Brooksharris:
Make sure that the left elbow is under the rifle, or an inch maximum to the left. Send us some photos to see your prone position.

[2650 Plus]

Just above my post is a recommendation to place the support elbow under the rifle or nearly so. I would recommend placing the elbow directly under the sling to allow the sling to do its job of holding the rifle weight and eliminating the muscle or ligamates being involved in supporting the rifle. Next to try is zero point or as we say here in the US natural point of aim. a correct natural point of aim eliminates all muscle tension that could become involved in holding the rifle on the aiming point and simply allows the rifle to point anywhere the natural body position causes /allows.By shifting forward or back about the support elbow you correct for vertical errors, and by tiny shifts right and left the same is achieved for horizontal errors. The goal is to elliminate all muscle tension affecting the pointing of the rifle and let it point directly to the center of the target you are trying to hit dead center. Last is to take a close look at your rifle and make sure you do not have an adjustment out of line with the direction of recoiling forces, A post early on gives a good set of hints on correct adjustments. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[metermatch]

Just to add what 2650 said above:

Don't go too crazy trying to get your sling elbow directly under the rifle. If you do, you will likely tweak your elbow into an unatural position, leaving you in pain. I think my elbow is 3-4" to the sling side.

Remember, you are making a tripod - sling elbow, your shoulder (and through your body), and your trigger finger elbow. You are NOT trying to use your sling elbow as a monopod!

Just whatever you do, make sure you can do it the same every time!

Jeff

[Eric U]

I wouldn't worry too much about where your recoil heads to. If your results are good, then the recoil is good, end of story. My recoil is mostly toward 2-o'clock. Sometimes 12, sometimes 3. Has been all my career. It is fairly consistend, though. Hasn't hurt me one bit. The advise that 2650 gives about elbow below the sling is more correct than elbow under the gun. Service rifle bubbas like the elbow under the rifle, but they don't have to hit a target with a 10-ring as small as ours is.

Hope this helps,
Eric