Elbow Band

[Haleva]

Hi,
Is there a rule against wearing elbow band (prevent further damage on a tennis elbow) in a match (AP/FP) ?

[David Levene]

In a STRICT ISSF match you would fall foul of the last part of 8.4.2.1.1 "Bracelets, wristwatches, wristbands, or similar items are prohibited on the hand, and arm, which holds the pistol."

Whilst you can get a therpeutic use exemption (TUE) for many drugs, I am pretty sure you cannot get one for physical supports.

[IPshooter]

In a STRICT ISSF match you would fall foul of the last part of 8.4.2.1.1 "Bracelets, wristwatches, wristbands, or similar items are prohibited on the hand, and arm, which holds the pistol."

Whilst you can get a therpeutic use exemption (TUE) for many drugs, I am pretty sure you cannot get one for physical supports.

This is a classic example of a rule that is off-base. As a sufferer of tennis elbow, I have used the strap that is placed on the forearm just below the elbow. It does help with relieving tennis elbow pain, and it also can be used to reduce the possibility of re-injury. The strap in no way, shape or form gives you any advantage in shooting a pistol (other than relieving the pain felt from tennis elbow which surely hurts your performance).

The ISSF should re-write this rule so that it allow bands that do not support any joint. A strap which only compresses forearm muscles is not supporting a joint.

Stan

[Mike M.]

I agree. Had to use one of those straps myself...and will categorically state that it confers no advantages. The rule needs clarification, because the other items referred to all reinforce the wrist.

[Marc Orvin]

This is a great time to express your concerns to those who can actually do something about it.

Here is the email address of ISSF.
munich@issf-sports.org

Drop them a note to let them know of your issue and standby. They will be addressing the new rules in 2008.

Grassroots efforts often do have an impact on what the ISSF does.

[IPshooter]

This is a great time to express your concerns to those who can actually do something about it.

Here is the email address of ISSF.
munich@issf-sports.org

Drop them a note to let them know of your issue and standby. They will be addressing the new rules in 2008.

Grassroots efforts often do have an impact on what the ISSF does.

I don't know if it will make any difference, but I will e-mail them about it.

BTW, I apologize to anyone I ridiculed previously for having tennis elbow. It's a real problem and isn't easy to either resolve or keep from coming back.

Stan

[Steve Swartz]

FWIW I am recovering from a "terminal case of tennis elbow." Well, actually, it was a slightly different tendon group than classical tennis elbow, but the symptoms are almost identical (and frequently cross-diagnosed).

That having been said

1. I'm not sure if wearning an elbow band *during competition* would have helped stave off the eventual rupture and joint capsule damage; even after the surgery both my surgeon and PT say "wear the band during lengthy training sessions; not necessary for the 100 shots or so required for a match"

2. As to advantage of wearing the band (perceived or real) I kind of come down on the "yes it could provide an advantage" side of things. I do know that when I crank that sucker down it sure seems like I have a harder hold (good/bad/indifferent) than when I don't wear it. So I could potentially see the "Ban" side of the issue. Or just allow it for everyone (no doctor's note required); that way the playing field would sitll be equal and it would be a matter of choice

3. But then again, you begin allowing stuff like that and sooner or later we end up duct taping ourselves to the bench like the rifle shooters do . . . =8^)

Steve Swartz

[JulianY]

This is a classic example of a rule that is off-base. As a sufferer of tennis elbow, I have used the strap that is placed on the forearm just below the elbow. It does help with relieving tennis elbow pain, and it also can be used to reduce the possibility of re-injury. The strap in no way, shape or form gives you any advantage in shooting a pistol (other than relieving the pain felt from tennis elbow which surely hurts your performance).

The ISSF should re-write this rule so that it allow bands that do not support any joint. A strap which only compresses forearm muscles is not supporting a joint.

Stan

Whilst you have my sympathy, I am not so sure that this is so of base. The rules are designed to cover able bodies athletes at the world / Olympic level. The this extent supports are consider by the para Olympic association. David can correct me hear, but my experience at the club level is the the "jury" can (well they often do) take a more sympathetic view point assuming they spoke to first.

I have serious doubts that the ISSF would make any adjustments to the rules for fear of some cheet finding a way of exploiting it.

Julian

[Fred Mannis]

The rules are designed to cover able bodies athletes at the world / Olympic level.
Julian

I would have thought that the 'rules' were designed to cover ISSF sanctioned/approved matches. At any level of competition.

David L - Are you suggesting that I make inquiries about the strictness of the jury before attending a particular match? :-)

[David Levene]

I would have thought that the 'rules' were designed to cover ISSF sanctioned/approved matches. At any level of competition.

David L - Are you suggesting that I make inquiries about the strictness of the jury before attending a particular match? :-)

6.1.2 Application of ISSF Technical and Discipline Rules
6.1.2.1 Throughout these Rules, competitions where World Records may be established and which are approved by the ISSF in accordance with ISSF General Regulations Article 3.2.1 are referred to as "ISSF supervised Championships".
6.1.2.2 ISSF Rules must be applied at all ISSF Championships.
6.1.2.3 The ISSF recommends that ISSF Rules be applied at competitions
where ISSF events are in the program, even if World Records cannot be established. Such events are referred to as “ISSF Supervised Events”.


The ISSF have no jurisdiction over matches where World Records or Olympic qualifying scores cannot be obtained. They can only therefore recommend that other matches with ISSF events, for example the US National Championships, are run strictly in accordance with the rules. They cannot force the organisers to do anything.

Having said that, I have always maintained that any deviations from the rules, especially for those in section 6 onwards, should be mentioned in the meeting entry form.

It's all a matter of degree. At my club's annual championships, which are regarded as one of the major meetings in the UK, we would not allow an elbow support. Everyone knows that if you enter that meeting, if it isn't specifically mentioned in the list of rule deviations then you cannot do it. The meeting is more strictly run than many World Cups seem to be. We make no excuse for that, we are proud of it. At our normal monthly matches however, things are somewhat less formal and the emphasis is on enjoyment.

In answer to your question therefore, yes, if you need to break the rules in any way then check if the jury/organisers will allow it.

[Fred Mannis]

Thanks David.
As you can see, I am not as familiar with the ISSF rules as I ought to be.

[Richard H]

The rules are designed to cover able bodies athletes at the world / Olympic level.
Julian

I would have thought that the 'rules' were designed to cover ISSF sanctioned/approved matches. At any level of competition.

David L - Are you suggesting that I make inquiries about the strictness of the jury before attending a particular match? :-)

The ISSF has one focus and that is the elite athletes in the World Cup and Olympics, they would through the baby out with the bath water, and this is evidenced by some proposed rule changes that would basically almost destroy the grass roots level of the sport (ie rifle clothing changes).

[Richard H]

As to the tenis elbow strap if you need it to get through a 60 shot match you probably really shouldn't be shooting. Whereing while putting in 100 plus during training or when shooting cartridge firearms duing practice makes sense jsut to reduce the impact that that level or training can have on the body. Also consider shooting from a rest while training for certain aspects such as sight picture and alignment and trigger control, this will allow you to put in greater quanities of training without possible injury and allow you to focus on specfic aspects with out them being effected by other aspects. Shooting from a rest may alos allow you to continue training while injured.

[Nev C]

As one who has had Tennis Elbow and knows how painful it is, my advice is to see your doctor and get a cortisone injection. I tried all sorts of treatment, massage, physio, arm bands, NSAIDs etc but nothing worked until I had the cortisone shot. This was nearly 20 years ago and I have had no trouble since.

[David Levene]

As one who has had Tennis Elbow and knows how painful it is, my advice is to see your doctor and get a cortisone injection. I tried all sorts of treatment, massage, physio, arm bands, NSAIDs etc but nothing worked until I had the cortisone shot. This was nearly 20 years ago and I have had no trouble since.

I went that far and had a cortisone injection, which worked for a few months. Then another, which worked for a few months. Then another, which worked for a few months. Apart from surgery and learning how to use my arm again, retirement from competitive shooting was the only option.

Don't let it get that far. At the first sign of an elbow problem get it checked by an experienced sports doctor. More importantly, take their advice (I didn't).

[RobStubbs]

Cortisone is only another form of anti imflammatory drug, not a panacea or 'cure'. What it can however do is reduce the inflammation such that the joint can function normally and thereby reduce the stress allowing it to recover. Note also it is injected into the joint itself, whereas 'tennis elbow' can manifest itself in the joint, the muscles or the tendons. Don't however be fooled into thinking it will cure you, as in many cases it won't.

My advice is see someone who knows sports injuries. Rest when they tell you to and don't overdo the training, especially when being treated for an injury. I would bet most high level shooters stop shooting as a result of injury and that in a lot of cases that could have been avoided or managed.

Rob.

[ASA]

..My advice is see someone who knows sports injuries. Rest when they tell you to and don't overdo the training, especially when being treated for an injury...

On an australian site I found this example:

..In Germany about ten years ago, an Olympic medalist in Women’s Air Rifle had a deformed pelvis, as a result of sustained training overload during her teenage years. Apparently, she had spent several hours in her room each day, without her parent’s knowledge, training the standing position. By the time her parents and her coach found out, the damage had already been done. Of course, this was an extreme case, but it serves as an example of what can happen if there is inadequate or inappropriate supervision of junior shooters...[/qoute]

Here is the site's address:
http://www.pistol.org.au/Coaching/Articles.php

The excerpt above is from the article "Developing juniors and new shooters". All the articles are in my humble opinion worth reading

wishing a complete recovery

Axel

[Mike M.]

Rob Stubbs is right. I injured my right elbow, and got to an orthopedist withina few weeks. Got put on a therapy program, got issued a strap...and got my arm back into battery quickly.

One thing that I would consider is getting a set of aikido wrist/arm stretching exercises and doing them. The aikido people have developed ways to really limber up the wrist and arm, and doing them can be a useful preventive measure.

[Nev C]

Cortisone is only another form of anti imflammatory drug, not a panacea or 'cure'. What it can however do is reduce the inflammation such that the joint can function normally and thereby reduce the stress allowing it to recover. Note also it is injected into the joint itself, whereas 'tennis elbow' can manifest itself in the joint, the muscles or the tendons. Don't however be fooled into thinking it will cure you, as in many cases it won't.

All I can say is that my Tennis Elbow was cured with a cortisone shot, what is there to lose? Have an injection and see what happens, it may solve your problem.

[RobStubbs]

All I can say is that my Tennis Elbow was cured with a cortisone shot, what is there to lose? Have an injection and see what happens, it may solve your problem.

What is there to lose ? Well it can, and often does, hide the underlying problem. The injection is purely an anti imflammatory 'drug' that treats the inflammation itself and doesn't cure a problem. Seek knowledgeable, professional advise and take it from there.

Rob.