Trigger weight - First stage heavier or lighter?

[Tiger12]

Hi
I would like your thoughts on trigger weights for AP, Sport and Standard. Is trigger weight a personal thing or is there a generally agreed position on what works?.

Is a heavier first stage (ie 75% of the weight) better or vice versa?.

Should it be different depending on the match (ie AP vs SP) or do you try and keep the same setup for all?. Also, how do you accurately measure the 1st stage weight?.

[GaryBF]

I don't know why no one responded to your question. Perhaps it's because it was posted on a weekend. I'll throw in my two cents and prehaps that will bring out the dissenters. Anyway, it will float your question back to the top of the list.

In general, all pistol adjustments are a matter of personal preference. In the case of trigger stage weights, I think you should go lighter on the first stage and heavier on the second stage. If done in reverse, I think you are setting yourself up for an accidental discharge. Hopefully some of the experts will jump in and provide a better answer.

[Richard H]

If you go heavier on the first stage than the second stage you might as well just have a single stage trigger. What would the advantage be of having a 50 gram first stage and a 450 gram second stage?

[2650 Plus]

I personally don't pay much attention to the first stage and use varing initial pressure on the second stage for different trigger settings. I am very much in the minority using this method of trigger control .and do not advize anyone to use this method as it seems to be much better to adjust the trigger so as to have a legal trigger weight that is perfectly safe for the technique you are employing. Let the ' safe trigger" be your primary goal and train to use it correctly. A miss always costs you the match and thats how an inadvertant discharge is almost always scored. I suggest you increase the weight of the first stage to the point where you still have a solid feel of the trigger at the second stage with little or no chance of accidentally firing a shot. . Good Shooting Bill Horton

[somewhereinla]

Pardon my ignorance, but could someone explain to me what is meant exactly by 1st stage and second stage trigger setting? And their relationship.
And last what does the Sear engagement screw does exactly?

[Richard H]

There are different system used to come up with a two stage trigger but the basics are that there are 2 distinct stages in the trigger pull and the total weight of both stages adds to give your total trigger weight

Example the first stage is set to 480 grams (there is some amount of travel in the trigger and when you apply 480 grams it moves) then second stage is set to 50 grams (when you apply the additional 50 grams the sear releases and the trigger breaks). So the total trigger weight of the example above would be 530 grams. The reasoning behind this is that you apply the greater amount of force on the first stage and onlt have to apply the lesser on the second stage thus you are less likely to move the sights during the trigger release.

[ASA]

...
And last what does the Sear engagement screw does exactly?..

A nice explanation including diagram is given in the operator's manual for a Steyr LP (Chap. 6.6 "Sear adjustment" page 15 0f 27)

Here is the link for a download: http://www.steyr-sportwaffen.at/siteLay ... 41bda3f88b
In the preceding paragraphs first/second stage adjustments are decribed.

A common recommendation regarding trigger pressure would be:
beginner: 1/3 for the first stage weight and 2/3 for the second stage
expert: 2/3 for the first stage weight and 1/3 for the second stage

[crosshairs]

I must say that I am no expert when it comes to triggers but my experiences with adjusting trigger weights and experimenting with them has brought my score up by at least 20 points. Here's my take on this.

The trigger's function is to release the shot. There are many factors regarding trigger characteristics worth investigating. 1st and foremost on everyone's mind is the triggerweight. Now a dead 500gram weight used to test the trigger for qualification does not have a brain. As long as the pistol does not trigger off lifting the 500grams, you pass. But is that all to it?

1st pressure. How does 1st pressure help? If you were to look into the technical drawing of your pistol you will realise that in most cases, the 1st pressure and 2nd pressure works in parallel, that is, not in series. Increasing or decreasing the 1st pressure does have an effect on the final force required to trigger off. In most cases I know, for someone who did not pass the triggerweight test, he/she will increase the 1st pressure to pass that test. Although Trigger point from the 1st and 2nd pressure combined has increased, it is hardly felt by the shooter. Because the shooter, on reaching the 2nd pressure, can only appreciate the difference between the 1st and 2nd pressure when going for the shot, not the resultant of both.

Moral of the story: if you like a light trigger point, increase your 1st pressure to create a margin to allow adjustments for that.

I hope that helps.

[crosshairs]

Personal advice: A good group is usually achieved with little or nil(very hard to achieve, trigger may jam) travel after the triggerpoint. You may say that the trigger finger holds down the pistol and stops the jump immediately upon discharge. Worth looking into. Applies for LP10 as well.

[Tiger12]

Thank you all for your advice. After shooting with the 1/3rd first stage 2/3rd second stage trigger for a few years I will now try the 2/3rd - 1/3rd system as suggested.

I am trying a single stage trigger on my LP10 at the moment and although I am finding it very difficult to shoot, my groups have reduced significantly (although this may be the temporary "new gun/equipment change" effect). Time will tell...

Thanks again.

[Richard H]

Personal advice: A good group is usually achieved with little or nil(very hard to achieve, trigger may jam) travel after the triggerpoint. You may say that the trigger finger holds down the pistol and stops the jump immediately upon discharge. Worth looking into. Applies for LP10 as well.

That too is a very personal adjustment. I have tried shooting with no after travel and hate it, a coach of mine likes no after travel, and his wife one of our top shooters also prefers some after travel.

Personally I feel the after travel allows me to have a cleaner trigger break without disturbing the sights while pulling through the trigger.

[crosshairs]

Personal advice: A good group is usually achieved with little or nil(very hard to achieve, trigger may jam) travel after the triggerpoint. You may say that the trigger finger holds down the pistol and stops the jump immediately upon discharge. Worth looking into. Applies for LP10 as well.

That too is a very personal adjustment. I have tried shooting with no after travel and hate it, a coach of mine likes no after travel, and his wife one of our top shooters also prefers some after travel.

Personally I feel the after travel allows me to have a cleaner trigger break without disturbing the sights while pulling through the trigger.

Your pistol and shooting technique must have been tuned to allow for a very stable reaction to the recoil. Is your pistol weight well balanced front and rear? Which model are you using?

[Richard H]

Personal advice: A good group is usually achieved with little or nil(very hard to achieve, trigger may jam) travel after the triggerpoint. You may say that the trigger finger holds down the pistol and stops the jump immediately upon discharge. Worth looking into. Applies for LP10 as well.

That too is a very personal adjustment. I have tried shooting with no after travel and hate it, a coach of mine likes no after travel, and his wife one of our top shooters also prefers some after travel.

Personally I feel the after travel allows me to have a cleaner trigger break without disturbing the sights while pulling through the trigger.

Your pistol and shooting technique must have been tuned to allow for a very stable reaction to the recoil. Is your pistol weight well balanced front and rear? Which model are you using?

For air I'm using an LP10, which basically has no recoil. Weight wise it is a little nose heavy (my preference). For .22 and .32 I shoot GSP's which are nose heavy by nature, plus I have the 70 gm and 65 gm barrel weights added respectively.

[Bruce Martindale]

I'll throw in 2 cents more. No matter what your second stage is, you have to be able to control it. Take up stage 1 and stop, then smoothly pull stage 2 the same way each time. Beginners make the error of selecting a light 2nd stage to avoid trigger induced gun motion but in fact can no longer call their shots. Their perceived progress is false even if the score is better; the wild shots won't go away. Same thing for Free Pistol where a heavier trigger may actually be easier.

Daryl S was using something like 400/100 while John Zurik had a single stage trigger in air. Both top level shooters.

As to overtravel, a matter of taste perhaps but may be more a relationship with increasing searforce. I am a Master in BE, was AA in air and have no trigger stops in any of my guns air to 45 ball. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong but I found it doesn't hurt to try different things

best regards