Commonwealth Games Shooting

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:25 am

With apologies to those who are not involved, at their recent meeting in Sri Lanka the General Assembly of the Commonwealth Games Federation voted to align the Games shooting programme with that of the Olympics, plus the existing fullbore rifle events.

We believe that Delhi 2010 will be unaffected but after that, no Centre Fire Pistol, no Standard Pistol, no Ladies Prone, etc.

Also no Pairs or Badges.

It is not just affecting shooting, several sports are being similarly hit in an attempt to reduce the size of the Games.

Mike M. · Post by **Mike M.** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:53 pm

I'm not involved..but that is a Bad Thing.

I wonder if the Commonwealth Games need to consider having separate Winter and Summer Games, or some similar breakdown that would allow a full slate of sports while keeping the games to a managable level.

joydeepk · Post by **joydeepk** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:46 pm

It was always unfair(read: gender biased) to keep Ladies prone out of Olympic Programme.now its the turn for Commonwealth Games to act. The Batch,in my oppinion is non too important to be in the programe,but the rest of the matches should not be downsized.
regards.

SJung · Post by **SJung** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:45 am

I am sorry to read that center fire pistol, standard pistol and sports rifle prone events would not be part of commonwealth games program from Glasgow games. I do not understand why this has to happen. Commonwealth Games has its own identity it is not Olympics so why do they have to fallow the Olympics program and that to not completely. Why do they have to remove the pairs and badge matches, these are the only games I know where one gets to shoot more matches in the same event, it was good match practice and removing badge and pairs matches wont reduce the number of competitors

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:30 am

SJung, if (as I suspect) you are Samaresh Jung then a very warm welcome to this forum.

As one of the most successful Commonwealth pistol shooters of all times you are obviously more than qualified, and absolutely correct, in saying that the Commonwealth Games has a special identity.

I would not attempt to argue with you or offer any justification for the programme change.

The CGF will argue that the Games are getting too big. Doesn't that just mean that they are getting too successful and popular, and isn't that something to be proud of. Maybe sport is no longer the most important factor in their eyes.

SJung · Post by **SJung** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:56 am

Thank you very much.
I think for the ones taking these decisions sport is less important than organising the Games.
I have been talking to people in our federation since I got this news and it seems that this thing was going on for some time. There was a proposal to change to this format for the Delhi games too but our federation resisted and that the old format will stay for the Delhi games. I am told that at one time there was a talk of taking shooting totally out of the games because it falls in B or C category sports, which may or may not be included in the Games depending on the likes or dislikes of the organisers.
I wanted to know if the pairs matches are removed would there be no team event or would the result of individual be added to decide team medals?

isuguncoach · Post by **isuguncoach** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:47 am

Dave,

What is a badge match??

Joe

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:14 am

isuguncoach wrote:What is a badge match??

It's just a "shake-down" match held before the actual Commonwealth Games start. The range staff use it to make sure they each know what everyone else is doing and the competitors just use it to get back into match-mode. Some competitors shoot in it, some don't, and others will shoot all but the last series (to avoid creating a score expectation).

Because it is before the Games start they cannot award medals, so they award badges instead.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:19 am

SJung wrote:I wanted to know if the pairs matches are removed would there be no team event or would the result of individual be added to decide team medals?

It is very clear I'm afraid, there will not be a separate team match as there are none at the Olympics. Whether they will award Pairs medals based on the total of the 2 scores in the individual match is a bit vague at the moment. I personally doubt it.

David M · Post by **David M** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:53 am

An even bigger concern is that under the new constitution Nov 2007, shooting does not have to be included in the games at all.

"ARTICLE 21

Sports in the Programme of the Commonwealth Games

1. The programme of the Commonwealth Games shall consist of a minimu m of 10 sports and a maximum of 17 with no more than 4 Team sports.

2. Ten sports shall be obligatory – Athletics, Aquatics (Swimming), Badminton, Boxing, Hockey (Men & Women), Lawn Bowls, Netball (Women), Squash, Rugby Sevens (Men) and Weightlifting.

3. A Candidate City/OC may select up to a further 7 sports from those listed below:
Archery, Basketball (Men & Women), Cycling (Road and/or Mountain Bike and/or Track), Diving (as part of Aquatics), Gymnastics (Artistic and/or Rhythmic), Judo, Shooting (Clay Target and/or Fullbore and/or Pistol & Small Bore), Table Tennis, Tennis, Triathlon and Wrestling.

4. The maximum number of events for Elite Athletes with a Disability (EAD) under clauses 5 & 6 below shall not exceed 15.

5. EAD events in each of the following four core sports shall be obligatory – Athletics, Aquatics (Swimming), Lawn Bowls and Powerlifting as directed by the Federation.

6. A Candidate City/OC may select additional EAD events from the sports listed below:
Cycling (Track), Table Tennis and Wheelchair Basketball "

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:56 pm

Well spotted David M, I am amazed they have published the new constitution so quickly.

We just have to hope that there will be enough CGAs in support of shooting to ensure that those bidding for the Games include it in their proposal.

Alex L · Post by **Alex L** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:54 am

My wife and I were involved with the Pistol Shooting at the Melbourne Comm. Games.
We found it a tremendous experience, to meet the shooters from all corners of the Commonwealth. We also worked for the Badge matches , which gave us 3 weeks of very early mornings, and a lot of walking up and down 25metre ranges. It was very hard work (a fter a few years of retirement) but we would not have missed it for the World.
We have so many happy memories of meeting shooters, and officials during the Games.

We thought there might be some problems with shooters bringing in their firearms,but the Powers-that-Be had it well in hand, and we did not hear of any problems in that area.

Officials seem to be so wrapped up in themselves that they forget the whole reason for them being there is to Organize SPORTS. Obviously some sports don't sell well when it comes to TV rights, and shooting is one of the less popular sports for the TV moguls.

It is sad that shooting is likely to be dropped. C/F and other events have been on the cards for elimination for some time, but they should not use the Olympic programme for the Comm Games. They are 2 separate events.

We will be very disappointed if this happens, and I hope there will be a protest about it. There should be enough room for all these traditional sports to participate.

Alex L. Melbourne, Oz.

Nev C · Post by **Nev C** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:12 am

This is bad news for Australian pistol shooters. One of the main reasons for us retaining our pistols in the current anti-gun political climate has been the need for top competition shooters such as Commonwealth Games competitors to be able to use semi auto pistols. This need will vanish with the new program.
The anti gun lobby will simply say to our political masters that there is now no need for semi auto handguns because they are no longer used in top shooting competitions. I know that we will still have womens 25m events but whether that will be enough to keep politicians on our side remains to be seen.

Guest43 · Post by **Guest43** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:55 am

It seems that the only place these matches will now be shot in higher level competition is at regional competitions (Oceania, etc), and at the World Championships.

I for one would like the ISSF to introduce standard and centrefire into world cup events. We should be adding and growing, not shrinking.

Mike Mc. · Post by **Mike Mc.** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:18 am

I fear that Davis M is right...shooting appears to have been made optional, with enough other options that a host city could delete it. Or use the "and/or" option to host a few shooting events but leave the pistol shooters out.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:18 pm

Nev C wrote:I know that we will still have womens 25m events but whether that will be enough to keep politicians on our side remains to be seen.

Don't forget that we will also have Rapid Fire.

xtreme · Post by **xtreme** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:31 pm

Nev C
I have been thinking along the same lines as you.
A ban on all C/F pistols, will be the next push by the Anti-gun lobby here in Oz.

Nev C · Post by **Nev C** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:32 am

Don't forget that we will also have Rapid Fire.[/quote]

Oops, but I still wonder if just two .22 semi-auto matches in the Olympics and Commonwealth Games will be enough to justify keeping C/F pistols for club shoots etc. It is no secret that Australian shooters were only allowed to keep semi-auto pistols because they are used at the top levels of the sport.

sals.j · Post by **sals.j** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:07 am

Seems to me that the organisers are definitely chasing the almighty $$$ given that the media friendly sports get preference over sports that have been involved in and supported the Games for far longer!!

If the Games are too big, why not go for a last in first out approach? Perhaps because that would see the 'sexy' team sports like rugby 7's and netball being dropped?

I would definitely like the decision-makers to be very open and transparent about the criteria they used to make the call - what were the criteria, who was involved in selecting the criteria, how did/do they intend to ensure all affected parties get to have input into the decisions and/or make a case for alternative options?

I do find this decision to be sad - I was hopeful that one day the Olympics would follow the example of the Commonwealth Games and become more gender inclusive in prone shooting (either by adding a women's event or holding an open event), not the other way 'round. This decision is a nail in the coffin for that dream!!

TargetTalk