MG2 Struggler:

[Guesteer]

Have you contacted the folks at MatchGuns for their assistance?

Yes, I have. They have not bothered to answer....

No, the problem is not the BIL. Oh, yes, I have replaced the BIL once of course...broke at an early stage.

I think the pistol is suffering from an arrray of problems whick are co-operating to turn the pistol inoperable.
This pistol has always been a troublesome one, from day one.
Ejection problems, feeding problems, ruptured case problem, will not cycle a live cartridge problem....etc.

In Germany, and in France, the existence of a perfectly functional MG2 is unknown to the common shooting public.
I am not exagerating. Luckily, there is (at least) one in Spain, though, which is good.

[Guestee]

Have you contacted the folks at MatchGuns for their assistance?

Yes, I have. They have not bothered to answer....

No, the problem is not the BIL. Oh, yes, I have replaced the BIL once of course...broke at an early stage.

I think the pistol is suffering from an arrray of problems whick are co-operating to turn the pistol inoperable.
This pistol has always been a troublesome one, from day one.
Ejection problems, feeding problems, ruptured case problem, will not cycle a live cartridge problem....etc.

In Germany, and in France, the existence of a perfectly functional MG2 is unknown to the common shooting public.
I am not exagerating. Luckily, there is (at least) one in Spain, though, which is good.

[Brian James]

I had a troublesome MG2, and Ineeded to have my pistol sent back to MG to be fixed. Its there currently. If you are having persistant problems may I suggest you try contact Kalz on this website, or emailing them again or or simple call them. I have found MG to be very helpful and as supportive as any other major ISSF arms maker.

Good luck, if you message me I will do my best to help trouble shoot your problem along with the MG2 community in my local area. There are 4 MG2s, and only mine had a problem.

[Mad Max]

This is so funny. There are two different threads here on target talk thats about the same topic - problems with MG2. Is it time for a third thread soon?

That bragging comment about not cleaning the gun for 3500 rounds. Is there a competition where the dirtiest, still working, pistol wins? If you are a serious competitor in this event, get yourself a Glock instead. So funny, thanks for the laugh!

Here is an advice from me: Buy a pistol that is known to work 100% Crazy experiments like MG2 is perhaps good enough for the casual shooter. But if you have any ambitions, get something else. Your time is to valuable to spend with troublesome pistols.

[Mark Briggs]

Why is it that we get the odd guest in here who just doesn't understand the sport? Mad Max suggested using a Glock. Gee, I guess he's never tried RapidFire as he'd find the Glock guns converted to .22LR just don't cut it.

No wonder he prefixes his name with "Mad" and doesn't have the fortitude to become a registered user. Trolls, trolls and more trolls...

[Ted Bell]

Here is an advice from me: Buy a pistol that is known to work 100% .

Please - do tell us which pistol it is that works 100%. We'd love to know.


Come on, we're waiting...

[Tycho]

Yesss - give me a brand, and I tell you what can go wrong with it...

[Mad Max]

Kim, there a lots of good choices on the new market, the Morini CM22, the Feinwerkbau AW93, Walthers GSPs and the Pardinis . Used I would look at any of the above plus things like the Hammerli 280s, 208 and 208s. I don't know what country you are in , but you need to have a gun that you have confidence in. This means something that is both reliable and can be serviced readily if you do have a problem. Unfortunately the MG2 fits neither of those categories on a consistent basis and as Ernie said is not a beginners gun. unless you have good gunsmithing experinence and are not afraid to make parts from scratch, I would not recommend this gun..

Let us know what you decide

Here are some new pistols that are recomended by our host a few pages back in this thread. I can recomend all of them. Perhaps except for the Morini CM22 that's known for troubles in the past. Maybe it is fixed now.

More questions?

[Guest]

Why is it that we get the odd guest in here who just doesn't understand the sport? Mad Max suggested using a Glock. Gee, I guess he's never tried RapidFire as he'd find the Glock guns converted to .22LR just don't cut it.

No wonder he prefixes his name with "Mad" and doesn't have the fortitude to become a registered user. Trolls, trolls and more trolls...

Perhaps you didn't understand my ironic comment. Someone bragged about not cleaning his pistol for 3500 rounds and it still worked. Do you really think that it's a great achievement in some way? Do you really think that it's a measure of the quality of the pistol? "Hey look, my pistol is filled with dirt and it still goes bang, wow truly combat"

Most top pistol shooters take care of their equipment!

Your rude comments says more about you than about me. Why is it so that a discussion like this always turns into personal insults? I think it's very childish and inmature.

Here is a question for you Mark Briggs: What exactly makes my posts less worth than yours? Enlighten me about the benefits beeing "a registered user"

Take care,
Max

[Brian James]

Max,

I will address your last post. In my opinion people in this forum and in paticular in this thread seem to discount people's comments when they do no offer sensible opinions and grounded information. Your reference to using a Glock and finding the elusive pistol that operates 100% of the time sadly marginilized your comments.

I will give you the benifit of the doubt and say unless you are refering to using a Glock 9mm for CF, and even thats a strech, you appear to have a lack of understanding about the ISSF events.

Your comment about finding a pistol that works 100% of time is an erronius statement because most top pistols have or had problems (frames cracking was a common problem in many pistols). I'm aware that the Walther GSPs, Hammerli 280 and SP20, Pardini SP, Morini CM22 all had problems. Likely others have as well, but the point is most guns do have issues and what defines the longevity of a gun is often if these issues can be resolved.

The reason why its nice to be a registered user is because I would have sent this message to you instead of posting it here. The last thing any of us need is to feel attacked, and its a shame you feel attacked. But given the magnatidue of the comments made about you, it would appear you are a little sensitive given your follow up post.

Good luck and I hope we as a thread can return to the topic at hand and that is the MG2.

Brian James
Registered USER

[Guest]

I will address your last post. In my opinion people in this forum and in paticular in this thread seem to discount people's comments when they do no offer sensible opinions and grounded information. Your reference to using a Glock and finding the elusive pistol that operates 100% of the time sadly marginilized your comments.

I will give you the benifit of the doubt and say unless you are refering to using a Glock 9mm for CF, and even thats a strech, you appear to have a lack of understanding about the ISSF events.


I am sorry, but it seems to me that Mr. James both does not understand ISSF events and apparently has not read most of this thread to make the statements quoted above. It is quite clear to me that if flawless functioning of a pistol is your goal, then Glock is your choice. Of course it it is ludicrous comparison, so is advocating 3500 shots without cleaning a gun. Ask any gunsmithin the target world or plinking world. 95% of complaints of .22 lr functioning can be rectified by a thorough cleaning of the gun.
Sometimes registerd user, sometimes not

[Brian James]

The response I expected. At least the "guest(s)” are predictable and consistent.

Differences aside lets enjoy the forum and thread. I'm sure many people on this site's knowledge of ISSF shooting exceeds mine or the "guest(s)". Lets avoid the pissing match and get on with things.

With that said, if mud slinging is going to occur start a new thread because this one is getting polluted.

Cheers,

Brian

[Bpbrinson]

If you will notice the malfunction was after a thorough cleaning. I between it gets action brushed & blown out and a swab down the barrel every 3-500rds. I am far from a serious competitor w/ that gun. AP & FP is my thing . I am very happy with my MG2, much more than my two previous Pardinis. I bought mine after shooting one and talking to the coach of a major college that has four that see daily use with a minor problem every now and then, much less than their other guns. So I do not understand why so many feel they have to defend thier position when it looks like they could be wrong. I talk to the only supplier in the states often and he deals with few problems with the gun and Matchguns responds very quickly to the issues he can not fix in house.

sorry still not registered

Brooks

Bpbrinson(at)tx(dot)rr(dot)com <- not afraid, just search , you can find my cell also.[/b]

[guestee]

--- So I do not understand why so many feel they have to defend thier position when it looks like they could be wrong.

I am refering to my less than desirable real experiences with my and some others MG2s.

I talk to the only supplier in the states often and he deals with few problems with the gun and Matchguns responds very quickly to the issues he can not fix in houuse

I the US that is, not in Europe. Enjoy that.

This controversy is a bit strange.
People, like me, who have been fighting over my non-obeying MG2 for two years, and know what the " real world of troublesome MG2s" is, it is surprising to read about the, according to many claims from US owners, recomendable and about troublefree MG2s!

Here in Europe things are very different, according to common experiences, I will claim.
I, and some fellow shooters in more european countries have experienced that the MG2 ( many specimens, at least) can be very troublesome.

How come the reality of the MG2 is so different in US vs Europe?
Is there any commercial interest in promoting a gun, thus trying to cover up and supress the problems? I do not understand this. Very strange.

No, I do not have any commersial connection to any gun shop, dealer or manufacturer.

Are the MG2s available in the US, and those available in Europe manufactured in two different factories ? (or two different planets?)

[Steve Swartz]

Guestee maybe you have hit on a key point here.

First, I don't have dog in this fight (but I do enjoy a good row and this sure seems to be one!).

Second, I appreciate the differences between US shooters and (many?) shooters in the European environment(s). I would argue that:

US: We keep our guns on the kitchen table and spend countless hours of enjoyment cleaning, adjusting, and tinkering with them.

EU: Guns are locked up in a club; you show up, shoot, then give a quick scrub and put them away until the next time.

Given the assumption of the different environments, might it be possible that a "marginal" gun might be a perfectly acceptable and reliable tool in environment US, and an absolute beastly pain in environment EU?

Just a thought

Steve

[Tycho]

Yo, Max the Mad Hot Air Balloon: AW93 - see all other threads discussing problems with the barrel - of all things! The SSP (which you forgot) doesn't really work (see TT archives), GSP is a 30 year old chunk of iron with the lousiest trigger I've ever seen, CM22 (old) is off the scale anyway for quality/trigger/ergonomic problems, Pardini took years to sort out their electronic trigger starting with the GPE (see TT archives), the mags wear out faster than one can look at them, they are always tinkering about the design, sometimes without upgrading possibilities in mind. Hammerli is de facto out of business, the 208 is unusable for RF, the 280 dito (and took Hammerli 8 years to get it working well, see old threads about 280s throwing the first shot low or high), the SP20 was up on TT in several threads for damaged _______ (insert whatever pops into your mind, like slides, barrels, trigger housings etc). Every one of them can be made into a good pistol suitable for this or that match. Each and every top level target pistol needs parts, service and development. No newly launched pistol in the last few years went troublefree, but with Cesare, people are always complaining and yammering away - although they should have known. And at least, here the designer designs upgrades to solve the problems, instead of arguing all around them like Hammerli.

So, yes, more questions - Any questions left?? You still want to recomend (sic) all of them? To whom - your enemies? You still want to discuss an MG2 you obviously have not the slightest clue about? Where's your sensible opinion? Flaming Matchguns? I'm in Europe, right in the middle of it, and while we certainly had our differences with MG, they finally came through and the latest version is top grade - and my first series (snr 103x) MG2(m) still works perfectly well - as it has for several hears now.

Re: Guests - Even if I repeat myself, I'm also leaning more and more towards the opinion that posting here should require a registration, a user name and a PM adress...

And, Steve - not all countries in Europe handle their gun laws the way you think - I find myself tinkering all the time ;-)

[jipe]

I agree that most new pistol has/had some problems.

Now, if you look at the available pistols, there are the less recent, mature ones like the AW93 (the problems mentioned in other posts are not design problems, they are manufacturing problems), the CM22 problems are, as far as I know, an old story (probably new problems with the CM22RF), the GSP expert, the last of a long family, has no problems, its poor trigger (I agree with you, I have the impression to press a piece of rubber instead of a trigger) is not a malfunction, the Pardini work fine, concerning the electronic trigger, Italian electronics never had a great reputation, I would never buy an Italian piece of electronics !

These pistols, at least the three first, are relatively simple design.

Then there are the recent ones, much more sophisticated, with maturity issues. Here I see:
- the SSP the most recent one, had a lot of success in Europe when it was introduced, complicated design but not so many problems, main complain is a not so good trigger. We can hope that Walther will come with an upgraded version.
- the Tesro TS22: also some issues but I like the clear/open way Tesro manage the upgrades: there was the TS22-1, TS22-2 and now TS22-3. Here you know what you have/buy. Instead of the matchguns way where models/improvements are not clearly identified.
- MG2, actually, not so new anymore, and that seems to have (had ? the main problem I see is that due to the poor communication of Matchguns, it is pretty difficult to link issues to model types and to know if the currently delivered MG2 have still issues) the most severe technical issues.

[guestee]

The SSP (which you forgot) doesn't really work (see TT archives), GSP is a 30 year old chunk of iron with the lousiest trigger I've ever seen,

Yes, I fully agree with you an that one Tycho. But the GSP will feed, fire and eject for decades, if cleaned every few thousand rounds. Have owned one, my club has more specimens, I never favored the GSP. An ugly chunc of iron it is.

CM22 (old) is off the scale anyway for quality/trigger/ergonomic problems,

Damned right on that one too, Tycho.

Pardini took years to sort out their electronic trigger starting with the GPE (see TT archives), the mags wear out faster than one can look at them,

According to more of my club mates, which have Pardini "experiences", you are right on here too, Tycho.

the 208 is unusable for RF, the 280 dito (and took Hammerli 8 years to get it working well, see old threads about 280s throwing the first shot low
or high),

Yah, Tycho, exactly. ´Nuff said.

the SP20 was up on TT in several threads for damaged _______ (insert whatever pops into your mind, like slides, barrels, trigger housings etc).

Yes, that is the plain thruth, Tycho.

Every one of them can be made into a good pistol suitable for this or that match.

Well, tycho, her I start to disagree some with you....

You still want to discuss an MG2 you obviously have not the slightest clue about?

FALSE, Tycho!
I have "suffered" ownership of an MG2 for two years. A couple of shooting pals are plagued seriouslyl from their MG2s too.
I have replaced parts, dismantled, cleaned the MG2 for two years. I know what I am talking about!

So you own two sound MG2s? So then we have two in Switzerland, and one in Spain. Good for you and that lucky owner in Spain. Like winning in lottery?

But, Tycho, I will repeat myself on this topic: Not a single problemfree MG2 is known to exist, to the common shooting public, in Germany and France.
For other countries in Europe, I do not know.

[Brian James]

Guestee,

There are several working ones in Canada that are problem free. Sadly mines not one of them (yet).

[Scott H.]

mad/guest/ee/er,

We have different, much happier, experiences than you allege with the MG2. Why can't you just accept that? It seems as if you question the honesty, or sanity, of anyone who is satisfied with the pistol.