Hi all
excuse me for asking what is probably a really dense question. I have seen a lot of reference to shooting at blank targets to concentrate on the process of trigger control, sight alignment etc. However looking through the archives some of them seem to suggest that you should be seeing small groups. Why would the size of the group that gets produced be important, if the point of the exercise is to improve the quality of your trigger pull / sight alignment with live fire ? I understand you could be aiming at a certain zone on the target, or allowing your natural point of aim to determine where you point, but should we (I) care where I am aiming? Isnt that coming close to the 'worrying about the score' that it is supposed to overcome? Have I misunderstood totally? I am confused.
cheers
Ed
The purpose of shooting blank cards is ?
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Steve Swartz
The size of the group has very little to do with "aim" and quite a bit to do with sight alignment and trigger control.
No, really.
The purpose of shooting at a blank card is that you *don't* aim. And small groups are the result.
Steve Swartz
(The fuzzy blob downrage is just an evil distraction put there to take your mind off what's really important.)
No, really.
The purpose of shooting at a blank card is that you *don't* aim. And small groups are the result.
Steve Swartz
(The fuzzy blob downrage is just an evil distraction put there to take your mind off what's really important.)
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
That's the purpose and the theoretical result. But in practice, the group may not be as small as you imply. For example, if you are shooting at the back of a 7"x7" AP target, the card does not subtend your entire field of view. The initial aim point will be center of the card, because people tend to shoot 'center of mass'. Unless you have taken a stance that puts your NPA in the center of the card, the hold point will drift toward NPA. For short hold times you may have a small group in the center, for long hold times you may have a small group centered on NPA, and for intermediate hold times you will have a larger group spread between these points.Steve Swartz wrote:The size of the group has very little to do with "aim" and quite a bit to do with sight alignment and trigger control.
No, really.
The purpose of shooting at a blank card is that you *don't* aim. And small groups are the result.
Steve Swartz
(The fuzzy blob downrage is just an evil distraction put there to take your mind off what's really important.)
Besides, as Ed points out, the size of the group is irrelevant in exercises like this.
Two different answers - like it :)
I'm trying to build up a repetoire of exercises / drills so that I can start off shooting AP without building in bad habits, so I want to try and understand what each drill is about - the purpose and the indicator of having performed it correctly.
With the blank card drill the indicator is surely the solid sight picture as the shot is taken, not the size of the resulting group? For example if I aim at 10 different points on the back of a card (by moving my feet between shots, for example) but the trigger and sight control is spot on, have I missed out on anything from the drill? I would have thought not, but maybe I misunderstand the purpose
regards
Ed
I'm trying to build up a repetoire of exercises / drills so that I can start off shooting AP without building in bad habits, so I want to try and understand what each drill is about - the purpose and the indicator of having performed it correctly.
With the blank card drill the indicator is surely the solid sight picture as the shot is taken, not the size of the resulting group? For example if I aim at 10 different points on the back of a card (by moving my feet between shots, for example) but the trigger and sight control is spot on, have I missed out on anything from the drill? I would have thought not, but maybe I misunderstand the purpose
regards
Ed
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
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Yes, you have missed out the bit about not aiming.edster99 wrote:For example if I aim at 10 different points on the back of a card (by moving my feet between shots, for example) but the trigger and sight control is spot on, have I missed out on anything from the drill?
Sight alignment (with each other) and trigger release. That's all it's about. Because of that you can even forget pellets and gas, and while you're at it make the target the size of a wall (if you've got one of an appropriate colour).
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Steve Swartz
Exactly so.
The instant you apply thought at all to where the gun is pointed you are missingt the boat.
At some point you will have to put up a new card (because it will no longer be "blank").
You afre focusing on alignment and not disturbing the alignment (perfect trigger) before, during, and after release.
If you need a "performance metric" score yourself for each shot on Alignment: Perfect/Not Perfedcft and Trigger: Perfect/Not Perfect based on what you SEE (and are thinging about) during the process.
Steve Swartz
The instant you apply thought at all to where the gun is pointed you are missingt the boat.
At some point you will have to put up a new card (because it will no longer be "blank").
You afre focusing on alignment and not disturbing the alignment (perfect trigger) before, during, and after release.
If you need a "performance metric" score yourself for each shot on Alignment: Perfect/Not Perfedcft and Trigger: Perfect/Not Perfect based on what you SEE (and are thinging about) during the process.
Steve Swartz
Thanks for that. My previous comments probably weren't very clear, when I said aiming at 10 points I didn't mean deliberately aiming, just the fact that I happened to be pointing in a different direction every time I took a shot. As I have a dry fire option on my pistol I guess there is very little difference between the two...
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Steve Swartz
Ed:
There are actually some different (subtle perhaps) training benefits from both dry firing against neutral surface and live firing against a blank target card. David and others can probably elucidate; me generally I dry fire about 5 times more than live fire in a week; of live fire, about 50% is against blank cards and the other 50% drills against distraction bull or match training.
A good "integration session" is to do 40 dry fires against blank surface, 20 dry fires against distraction bull, then 20 live fires against blank card finishing with 20 live fires against bull.
By the time you get to the "record shots" you will either be totally "in the zone" or totally thrashed . . . or both!
Reduce numbers proportionally for shorter sessions.
Steve
There are actually some different (subtle perhaps) training benefits from both dry firing against neutral surface and live firing against a blank target card. David and others can probably elucidate; me generally I dry fire about 5 times more than live fire in a week; of live fire, about 50% is against blank cards and the other 50% drills against distraction bull or match training.
A good "integration session" is to do 40 dry fires against blank surface, 20 dry fires against distraction bull, then 20 live fires against blank card finishing with 20 live fires against bull.
By the time you get to the "record shots" you will either be totally "in the zone" or totally thrashed . . . or both!
Reduce numbers proportionally for shorter sessions.
Steve