Ammo
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963
I've learned that getting the absolute best you can afford is best. What does that mean?
Well in both Air rifle and Smallbore rifle it means getting pellets and ammo that gives the kids valid feedback on how well they are shooting.
The very inexpensive stuff, both pellets and .22LR, from CMP just gave us too many fliers to get valid feedback.
Now we don't use R-10 pellets or Eley black or red for the .22 stuff, but I've found that the following does very well for our programs
Sporter Air Rifle
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H&N Diabolo (GREEN Label) work in all of our rifles (Daisy 888/887's and XSV-40's) ... we have shooters firing VERY good scores with these ... we use them both for practice and competition. We get them from Brenzovich for about $225 per case. We have not been able to try out the Vogel pellets that our host (PilkGuns) is/will be making, but the previous pellets we were getting from them were very good as well
We've fired almost 80,000 fo these pellets and I just picked up 100,000 more ... this is all we'll shoot this coming year
.22 Smallbore Rifle
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The SK Standard Plus and Wolf Match target are essentially the same ammo. We get this from Champions Shooter Supply ... with shipping it is about $3/box. It shoots well in all of our guns except one (a CZ-452 .. it shoots the old T-22 best ... even cheaper .... hooray!).
I've tried the PMC from CMP and just could not get consistent groups with it.
This ammo is not as quite consistent as the ELEY Red or Black, but it is pretty darn close, and the group size is a judgement call. It's close enough to justify saving $6-$10 per box.
We use it for 3-P, Intl, and Silhouette shooting
We shoot guns that range from 1912's, to CM-2's to Remington 510X's
We shot a bit over 2 cases of this last year, and I've just received 3 more cases .... very good stuff
If the ammo throws lots of fliers it just frustrates the shooters.
Well in both Air rifle and Smallbore rifle it means getting pellets and ammo that gives the kids valid feedback on how well they are shooting.
The very inexpensive stuff, both pellets and .22LR, from CMP just gave us too many fliers to get valid feedback.
Now we don't use R-10 pellets or Eley black or red for the .22 stuff, but I've found that the following does very well for our programs
Sporter Air Rifle
------------------
H&N Diabolo (GREEN Label) work in all of our rifles (Daisy 888/887's and XSV-40's) ... we have shooters firing VERY good scores with these ... we use them both for practice and competition. We get them from Brenzovich for about $225 per case. We have not been able to try out the Vogel pellets that our host (PilkGuns) is/will be making, but the previous pellets we were getting from them were very good as well
We've fired almost 80,000 fo these pellets and I just picked up 100,000 more ... this is all we'll shoot this coming year
.22 Smallbore Rifle
-----------------------
The SK Standard Plus and Wolf Match target are essentially the same ammo. We get this from Champions Shooter Supply ... with shipping it is about $3/box. It shoots well in all of our guns except one (a CZ-452 .. it shoots the old T-22 best ... even cheaper .... hooray!).
I've tried the PMC from CMP and just could not get consistent groups with it.
This ammo is not as quite consistent as the ELEY Red or Black, but it is pretty darn close, and the group size is a judgement call. It's close enough to justify saving $6-$10 per box.
We use it for 3-P, Intl, and Silhouette shooting
We shoot guns that range from 1912's, to CM-2's to Remington 510X's
We shot a bit over 2 cases of this last year, and I've just received 3 more cases .... very good stuff
If the ammo throws lots of fliers it just frustrates the shooters.
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Guest
We currently do, yes.
In 3-Position my top smallbore shooter is currently firing in the 555-565 range, my other (4-H Senior, 15-18 year olds) are firing in the 500-520 range.
My younger shooters are just now moving up to the 500's.
So they are not really firing scores that I would need to justify a maybe higher class of ammo.
When I fire most of the guns off the bench with the SK STD+ or the Wolf MT, it really is hard to see a huge difference between them and the Eley.
As my shooters get better, we will most certainly try it out with them, but currently all the fliers are their fault, not the ammo.
Since most of our ammo is bought with NRA grant money, I try and get the best I can justify to make our limited training worthwhile.
If you do order a case or so of it, go ahead and spend another $40-$50 and get a few boxes of the Eley's to compare it against. Take them back out to 50 meters, and you will see that the Eleys, the SK STD+ and the Wolf MT most probably quickly outclass the PMC. The differences I see don't justify (with the limited funds I have) going to the Eley right now with my shooters.
I just picked up some CM-2 Cadet rifles for our program, and I will admit that they seem (after only about 150 rounds thru each gun) to prefer the slightly more expensive Wolf Match Extra, but again for my shooters and my budget, the STD+ and Match Target shoot very well in all makes of guns.
(Whoops .... forgot to sign in ... jhmartin)
In 3-Position my top smallbore shooter is currently firing in the 555-565 range, my other (4-H Senior, 15-18 year olds) are firing in the 500-520 range.
My younger shooters are just now moving up to the 500's.
So they are not really firing scores that I would need to justify a maybe higher class of ammo.
When I fire most of the guns off the bench with the SK STD+ or the Wolf MT, it really is hard to see a huge difference between them and the Eley.
As my shooters get better, we will most certainly try it out with them, but currently all the fliers are their fault, not the ammo.
Since most of our ammo is bought with NRA grant money, I try and get the best I can justify to make our limited training worthwhile.
If you do order a case or so of it, go ahead and spend another $40-$50 and get a few boxes of the Eley's to compare it against. Take them back out to 50 meters, and you will see that the Eleys, the SK STD+ and the Wolf MT most probably quickly outclass the PMC. The differences I see don't justify (with the limited funds I have) going to the Eley right now with my shooters.
I just picked up some CM-2 Cadet rifles for our program, and I will admit that they seem (after only about 150 rounds thru each gun) to prefer the slightly more expensive Wolf Match Extra, but again for my shooters and my budget, the STD+ and Match Target shoot very well in all makes of guns.
(Whoops .... forgot to sign in ... jhmartin)
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Guest
First, let me say that I have only had my college and junior teams shooting at 50' indoor so I have no info on how the ammo might do at longer ranges outdoor in the wind.
We have been using the SK Match Target or the equivalent Wolf ammo for several years and have found it to be accurate and reliable in both rifles and pistols. As this ammo has been becoming more popular and the price increasing I started looking for something cheaper, but just as good. Discovered Eley Sport for about 1/2 the price (~$150/case with shipping) and we have found it to be acceptable but not quite as accurate as the SK. I have been told that Aquila makes this ammo for Eley in Mexico.
We have been using the SK Match Target or the equivalent Wolf ammo for several years and have found it to be accurate and reliable in both rifles and pistols. As this ammo has been becoming more popular and the price increasing I started looking for something cheaper, but just as good. Discovered Eley Sport for about 1/2 the price (~$150/case with shipping) and we have found it to be acceptable but not quite as accurate as the SK. I have been told that Aquila makes this ammo for Eley in Mexico.
Federal "Champion"
Recently I've been using Federal "Champion" standard velocity #714 ammo in the pale blue box, mainly because the local Wal-Mart started carrying it instead of Remington Target. I shop all over the Atlanta area for "target" ammo and had never seen this before about 4 months ago.
Comparisons with the Remington Target shows much better consistency and about 70% smaller groups. I'm working my second brick and so far zero trouble of any kind. In fact, it was one of the few rounds that would chamber without force when my Anschutz 1907 was brand new. This was a total surprise, since all the others brands that would chamber were $8 a box.
This is the best part... Wal-Mart sells this for $1.10 / box of 50.
PS. Don't confuse this with the Federal "Champion" #510 high velocity in the nearly identical box, which they also sell.
Comparisons with the Remington Target shows much better consistency and about 70% smaller groups. I'm working my second brick and so far zero trouble of any kind. In fact, it was one of the few rounds that would chamber without force when my Anschutz 1907 was brand new. This was a total surprise, since all the others brands that would chamber were $8 a box.
This is the best part... Wal-Mart sells this for $1.10 / box of 50.
PS. Don't confuse this with the Federal "Champion" #510 high velocity in the nearly identical box, which they also sell.