Ammo Testing and Group Size

[RobH]

Hi all,
I have had a Walther KK200 Power Match for about 2 years. I have been using some Eley Target Rifle that I had when I bought the rifle. Now that that is almost gone I decided to test ammo before I buy more. I spent the better part of Saturday testing lots of SK Match and Standard Plus using a test fixture. What I found was that it all shot about the same. Group sizes were all around .1 inch (outside spread minus 0.224) at about 65 feet. I don't feel that this is acceptable. A 0.1 inch group will not hold a 10 on an A-36 or USA50 target. Right now I have on order more test lots from Eley, Lapua, and RWS. What kind of groups should I expect to see before I buy several cases of ammo? I would like to avoid spending $1,000 on a case of ammo if I can. Any advise will be appeciated.

Rob

[B.T.Carstensen]

One thing you could do is find out what kind of ammo your Walther was tested with when it was new. My guess is Eley or Lapua.
That said I don't think you can go to far wrong with either.

--Brian--

[44 Magnum]

My brother and I spent about 5 hours one sunday testing ammo the other week. He also has a KK200 Power Match and I have a Walther Gx-1. Prior to testing ammo we were both shooting SK Match and thought it was the best but after testing it we found that it didn't shoot well at all. We tested Eley Standard, Eley Club Extra, Sk Match(2 lots), Sk Standard Plus, Sk Biatholon, Lapua Speed Ace, Lapua Super Club, Lapua Polar Biatholon, Lapua Signum, Wolf Match Extra, CCI Green Tag, Federal Gold Medal(711B) and a few others. His gun like the Lapua Speed Ace and the Eley Standard. With the Speed Ace it was shooting almost perfect .22 diameter holes. But mine did the same with Federal Gold medal. Every gun is different and every lot of ammo shoots a little different. About the best thing u can do is get a mix of ammo and if u find one that shoots well order it as soon as possible because ammo at places like Champions choice goes quick and once that lot is gone its gone forever. If u get Lapua u have to watch because the lubricant will build up on the bolt and not allow it to close. Also u can mess with the torque settings but i have never done it and don't plan to(I don't like to mess with stuff like that). Also what club do u shoot at I myself shoot for the Oil City Izaak Waltons just about 2 hours north of u.

[RobH]

I was at the Zerbe Club testing with Bill Earnest. He told me he was testing with someone from oil city a few weeks ago. Was that you? Right now I have on order some lots of various Eley, RWS, and Lapua. I'm hoping to find something that will shoot almost perfect 0.224 holes.

[metermatch]

Ditch the test fixture, unless you are going into test fixture competition.

Shoot off sandbags off a bench, or shoot it prone with a scope and a sandbag under your forward wrist.

Funny things can happen with a "test fixture". All sorts of weird vibrations are happening. Spend some time with that torque wrench on the action screws.

Jeff

[RobH]

Spent some time today with various lots of Eley MAtch EPS, Eley Standard, Target Rifle, RWS R50, and MIdas M. None produced any results that were consistently better than anything else. I decided to have the barrel re crowned and see if that helps.

[metermatch]

How many rounds through the barrel? I used to think barrel life on smallbore was near infinite. However, last month I bench tested my 21 year old 1813 with a Schneider barrel, and was whipped by two other rifles, one a H&R model 12 from the DCM! I back counted and calculated I have about 100,000 rounds through the barrel. I have been reading, and have come to the conclusion barrel life is 10,000 to 20,000 rounds, lower with Eley ammo (which I shot exclusively).

Also, perhaps the barrel is damaged by cleaning??? Don't assume the barrel is OK. (don't assume anything - always test).

I looked back on my shooting, and realized shortly after Karl Kenyon installed my barrel in 1986, I set 8 national records. Within a couple of years, (and about 20,000 rounds) my scores tapered off, and were never the same. I guess I just learned something.

Problem solved. Today I ordered a 2013/2313 Anschutz from Champion's Choice. I want to easily change bvarrels............

See you guys at Camp Perry next year...

Jeff

[RobH]

I have had this rifle for about 2 years now. Bought it brand new. I don't shoot nearly as much as I should, at max 3,000 rounds through it. The plan is to recrwon and test again. If that does not work...chop off 6 inches and recrown. If that fails rebarrel it.......Lilja comes highly recomended.

[metermatch]

If you know a good gunsmith, they will probably have a borescope. They can look and tell you if the barrel is any good. Karl Kenyon slugs a bullet through the barrel and looks at it.

Jeff

[B.T.Carstensen]

I have been reading, and have come to the conclusion barrel life is 10,000 to 20,000 rounds, lower with Eley ammo (which I shot exclusively).
Jeff

Would that be longer for a stainless steel barrel? I hope so cus I only got my ANS 2013/690 SS a few months ago and have already put over a 1,000 rounds though it.
How much is a Lilja barrel.

--Brian--

[metermatch]

I don't think there is a huge difference between SS and Chrome Moly. I think Chrome moly lasts a bit longer, but SS is a little easier to clean. At least that what my memory says.

Probably be a good idea to test the gun right now to get a bench mark, and then put away some of that ammo for testing at a later date. You should be able to see when the barrel goes out.

The Lilja barrel drop in ready to go is $335.

Jeff

[44 Magnum]

That would be my brother he spent so time down there practicing and we got one of Bills set ups to test ammo. I thought barrels lasted a lot longer than 10,00 to 20,000 rounds. Thats scary cause i have put way over 5000 rounds through mine.

[RobH]

i have heard more like 100,000 to 200,00 rounds before a smallbore barrel is shot out. 10 to 20,000 for a high power sounds right.

Now that I think about it, from what I've been told, at one time Wigger shot about a case of ammo a week just practicing. that would mean he would need to rebarrel his rifle every 2 to 4 weeks......that doesn't seem to add up.

[metermatch]

I can't say for sure about Wigger, but it was probably a case of ammo a month. Also, I kind of noticed years ago the AMU boys always seem to have different rifles. Might be the free gunsmithing services for the Army shooters.

Jeff

[hipwr223]

I certainly wish there was a highpower rifle that could get 10,000+ rounds. I shoot an AR15 match grade service rifle in .223 and my Krieger barrels last on the order of 3500-5000 thats it. I am forced to run serveral different rifles during the season or re-barrel once a year. I prefer to go to Perry with a barrel that has good zeros. (service rifle matches don't have sighters).

Either way I am hoping my 2013 factory stainless barrel gives me 20,000+ rounds. I have had it for just about a year and have fired about 5000 thru it.

[RobH]

Well, my rifle should be recrowned today. I'll be back at the range tomorrow for testing. I'll let you know how I make out. I'm hoping there will be a vast improvement.

[RobH]

Well, the recrowning helped quite a bit. The man who did it told me it was one of the best factory crowns he had ever seen and wasn't sure what the results would be. My group sizes were about cut in half. One lot of SK Match went from an average of 0.133" to 0.066" another went from 0.105" to 0.056". I also found a lot Lapua Master M that shot an average group of 0.022". So now it is off to buy as much as I can afford.