Well, I've just come from the tournament, and happily I've gone up again in my score, it started with 476 on my first tournament (about a month ago) 488 (about a week ago) and 511 (today) 600.4 with final.
I decided to do it as everyone says (concentrating on the sights) differing from my last time (because of desperation of getting 10's) and overall my grouping became even better than before (although very few 10's) and compared to last time only 3 6's in the whole 60 shots.
What I noticed, is that I need a little more training on trigger control, while doing it live, I tend to move more than while dryfiring (wich when I started the pistol didn't even move).
My twiches although rough by my imagination turned in 7's and 8's, I thought most of the time the shot went out of the bullseye, but got surprised when it came out an 8.
The blank target drills on training worked wonders today (although I was wanting more 10's) my shooting was more concistent.
I need feedback on what to do to train more on trigger control specially while live firing.
Cheers
And thanx for all the tips and exersices (sp?)
My results....
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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Steve Swartz
Cuervo:
Congratulations! Congratulations mainly for "sticking with it" when the suggestions we have been making seem absurd. Shooting well isn't complicated, but simple does not equal easy . . .
The underlying problem for you at the moment (good trigger control when dry firing against blank target, poor trigger control when live firing against aiming target) could be related to a couple of different things; but thankfully there are some practices you can do to overcome the difficulty.
First, the background. Your brain is trying to consciously "control" the release of the shot. In other words, your common-sense brain wants to try to release the shot "at the right moment" when your eye sees a good sight picture.
This makes perfect sense, but is absolutely the worst way to approach the shot. I have argued this in previous emails- but my guess is that at least for now you might not believe it but figure it isn't worth arguing over.
Fair enough.
So let's leave that argument aside and just look at it simply from the perspective of "How can I execute perfectly smooth trigger release every single time?"
1) A smooth, straight, uninterupted increase in pressure
2) Absolutely consistent for every single shot
3) Trained to the point where it is automatic (no thought required)
If you can achieve 1-3 above, we can ignore *when* you break the shot (for now).
So what can you do to train your trigger release to be absolutely smooth and consistent every single time?
a. Dry fire against blank surface, concentrating on sight alignment
b. Live fire on blank surface, concentrating on sight alignment
c. During a. and b., develop the proper "feel" (grip and finger position) and "technique" (speed, muscle tension, force direction) that results in absolutely no disturbance to front sight relative to rear sights before, during, AND AFTER release of the trigger
Perform a-c above at least 1,000 times before looking at another aiming target. Begin "easing in" brief sessions with the aiming target (maybe 10 clicks/shots per 100) gradually.
Once your trigger control becomes absolutely SMOOTH and totally PREDICTABLE your subconscious mind will be able to develop a sense of timing for the release of the shot.
Steve Swartz
Congratulations! Congratulations mainly for "sticking with it" when the suggestions we have been making seem absurd. Shooting well isn't complicated, but simple does not equal easy . . .
The underlying problem for you at the moment (good trigger control when dry firing against blank target, poor trigger control when live firing against aiming target) could be related to a couple of different things; but thankfully there are some practices you can do to overcome the difficulty.
First, the background. Your brain is trying to consciously "control" the release of the shot. In other words, your common-sense brain wants to try to release the shot "at the right moment" when your eye sees a good sight picture.
This makes perfect sense, but is absolutely the worst way to approach the shot. I have argued this in previous emails- but my guess is that at least for now you might not believe it but figure it isn't worth arguing over.
Fair enough.
So let's leave that argument aside and just look at it simply from the perspective of "How can I execute perfectly smooth trigger release every single time?"
1) A smooth, straight, uninterupted increase in pressure
2) Absolutely consistent for every single shot
3) Trained to the point where it is automatic (no thought required)
If you can achieve 1-3 above, we can ignore *when* you break the shot (for now).
So what can you do to train your trigger release to be absolutely smooth and consistent every single time?
a. Dry fire against blank surface, concentrating on sight alignment
b. Live fire on blank surface, concentrating on sight alignment
c. During a. and b., develop the proper "feel" (grip and finger position) and "technique" (speed, muscle tension, force direction) that results in absolutely no disturbance to front sight relative to rear sights before, during, AND AFTER release of the trigger
Perform a-c above at least 1,000 times before looking at another aiming target. Begin "easing in" brief sessions with the aiming target (maybe 10 clicks/shots per 100) gradually.
Once your trigger control becomes absolutely SMOOTH and totally PREDICTABLE your subconscious mind will be able to develop a sense of timing for the release of the shot.
Steve Swartz
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Albert B
trigger control
In addition to steve's good info:
Try to count (in your mind) from the moment the sights settle in the aiming area. This gives you a feel for timing and when the shot must fall, and prohibits distracting thougts entering your mind (during the match). Also it warns you if you are aiming to long. At the count of 5 or 7 alarm bells must go of.
Albert
(The Netherlands)
Try to count (in your mind) from the moment the sights settle in the aiming area. This gives you a feel for timing and when the shot must fall, and prohibits distracting thougts entering your mind (during the match). Also it warns you if you are aiming to long. At the count of 5 or 7 alarm bells must go of.
Albert
(The Netherlands)
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Re: trigger control
I don't know what others think Albert but I am not keen on the idea of counting, mentally or otherwise.Albert B wrote:In addition to steve's good info:
Try to count (in your mind) from the moment the sights settle in the aiming area. This gives you a feel for timing and when the shot must fall, and prohibits distracting thougts entering your mind (during the match). Also it warns you if you are aiming to long. At the count of 5 or 7 alarm bells must go of.
You have got enought to concentrate on without adding something else. At the time that you recognise, or even think, that things are not going as they should on that particular shot you should abort it. There is no fixed time for that even for one individual.
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Steve Swartz
Albert:
Good point- but David has a good point also. What I do is follow the principle:
"When I am aware that the shot hasn't broken yet, PTFGD!"
Basically if I am not aware yet that the shot hasn't broken, then I am still concentrating well (regardless of clock time). As soon as I think "why hasn't this shot broken yet?" then it means I lost my concentration about 723 ms ago!
Steve Swartz
(according to independent observers, the time duration between initial settle and the release of my shot vs. point value goes something like this
S Pts
1 8
2 8+
3 9
4 9+ or 10
5 9++ or 10
6 10
7 10 or 9
8 9 or 8
9 9 or 8
10+ 8 or 7
Good point- but David has a good point also. What I do is follow the principle:
"When I am aware that the shot hasn't broken yet, PTFGD!"
Basically if I am not aware yet that the shot hasn't broken, then I am still concentrating well (regardless of clock time). As soon as I think "why hasn't this shot broken yet?" then it means I lost my concentration about 723 ms ago!
Steve Swartz
(according to independent observers, the time duration between initial settle and the release of my shot vs. point value goes something like this
S Pts
1 8
2 8+
3 9
4 9+ or 10
5 9++ or 10
6 10
7 10 or 9
8 9 or 8
9 9 or 8
10+ 8 or 7
a few thoughts
I. I am coming to beleive that there are three levels of looking at the sights:
1. Yeah, I am looking at my sights because the silhoutte of the sights is between me and the target, (of course my attention and effort is the target). (really, really bad)
2. I now understand that i can reallly focus on the front sight and line the front and rear sight up with something in the backround that I don't pay much attention to. (much, much better)
3. I am really concentrating on exact and precise alignment and hold the precise alignment. (I think this exists, I am learning about it)
II. Consider writing down YOUR shot process. When does it start? How many steps does it have? Why do you do each step? Write it out and then think of way to improve each step, and practise those steps. Then train a bit putting them together. When live firing, you can thfocus intently on each step every shot, but train with emphasis on each step.
In short, analyze how you shoot and ten, break it down into steps, then think of how you make sure you do each very well, very consistantly each and everytime.
1. Yeah, I am looking at my sights because the silhoutte of the sights is between me and the target, (of course my attention and effort is the target). (really, really bad)
2. I now understand that i can reallly focus on the front sight and line the front and rear sight up with something in the backround that I don't pay much attention to. (much, much better)
3. I am really concentrating on exact and precise alignment and hold the precise alignment. (I think this exists, I am learning about it)
II. Consider writing down YOUR shot process. When does it start? How many steps does it have? Why do you do each step? Write it out and then think of way to improve each step, and practise those steps. Then train a bit putting them together. When live firing, you can thfocus intently on each step every shot, but train with emphasis on each step.
In short, analyze how you shoot and ten, break it down into steps, then think of how you make sure you do each very well, very consistantly each and everytime.
last thought for now:
Brian Zins, a Nationals champion in bullseye competiton seven times talks about using the trigger to drive the front sight through the rear sight. I think it is a brillyant statement in that it combnes two aspects of the shot process very well.
Please do not get into a battle over the exactr words or where or not the trigger finger really truly giudes the front sight, but think of the concept of combining the two actions critical to a ten!
Please do not get into a battle over the exactr words or where or not the trigger finger really truly giudes the front sight, but think of the concept of combining the two actions critical to a ten!