Got back late Thursday from the Nationals at Ft. Benning. This is the first one I have been two since Chino.CA in 1993. So, what did everyone who attended these think? Here's some of my thoughts and reflections.
- Great to see so many people there! Shooting on the line with so many was a great experience.
_AP was very confusing the first day. I and two others thought we had made the shootoff (I was 8th with a personal best of 567!) but didn't see our names up on screen when the time came. Turns out the first day was shootoff for just the top 8 who also shot spring selection match. Team member didn't even know this as he had to frantically go to his car and retrieve gun when he saw his name just minutes before the shootoff! Confused too as they let woman shooter who did not shoot spring selection match shoot in finals because she was from a different country. I learned to REALLY read the rules after this match!
- Lots of very friendly people there. Enjoyed meeting everyone and found a few people with a Kentucky connection. I put some faces to the names I see on Target Talk too!
- Heard several people proudly express that they had shot a personal best in various disciplines too!
- Loved the Air conditioned Air range!
- One young shooter was DQ'd from FP for excessive frame hits. He had a total score of 4. Another shooter told his dad upfront he had no business shooting free pistol and went on to explain (in a positive way) why. I hope this kid doesn't get frustrated from this experience and give up shooting.
- Got to meet the Ntional pistol Coach. He was able to point me towards someone who helped me by giving me some things to work on with my FP grip. Can't wait to try these out!
- HATS OFF TO PILKGUNS! Your time and money spent in promoting these nationals was terrific! Thanks for supporting everything!
- Ended up shooting my average in Air and Free so I feel good as several people said to me anytine you shoot your average in the Nationals you had a good match.
Thoughts on the Nationals
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
I'll throw down a thought here and hope it will be taken in the positive light which is intended by the writer. The US Nationals are hosted in a wonderful facility. Please be thankful for having the opportunity to shoot on good target systems in a great range. There are MANY other countries, including my own, where shooters first encounter electronic targets once they've made the cut and have flown off to their first World Cup. Enjoy the excellent conditions you have, and do all that you can to support the sport and ensure the good facilities don't die of benign neglect.
On another note, frame hits in FP shouldn't be an embarassment. I have watched a very high-level international shooter register a frame hit on the 50m range at Benning. It happens to all of us once in a while. But too many of them can sure be hard on the hardware! ;-)
On another note, frame hits in FP shouldn't be an embarassment. I have watched a very high-level international shooter register a frame hit on the 50m range at Benning. It happens to all of us once in a while. But too many of them can sure be hard on the hardware! ;-)
Mark, let me invite you down for next year. the general wisdom is that the Nationals will be in Ft. Benning again and possibly a week later. The actual schedule dates depends on the not yet decided world cup schedule.
Concerning the frame hits. This is the second year in a row that I had a shooter next to me that was disqualified for frame hits. Frame hits are being considered safety issues. The first results in a warning, second in a 2 point penality, third in a DQ.
This unfornate young man was sent by a ...(let us not make those comments about the so called coach). He was very young and could hardly hold the pistol. His sights were also way off. He may have fired fifty rounds, had one four, and three frame hits. He should be shooting AP from a supported position until he matures a bit more and can hold the pistol. That way he could learn sight alignment and trigger control.
The Nationals were a good event and there were some interesting challenges with a shortened schedule versus past Nationals. The volunteers that run the ranges worked very hard and some long hours.
More later...
Concerning the frame hits. This is the second year in a row that I had a shooter next to me that was disqualified for frame hits. Frame hits are being considered safety issues. The first results in a warning, second in a 2 point penality, third in a DQ.
This unfornate young man was sent by a ...(let us not make those comments about the so called coach). He was very young and could hardly hold the pistol. His sights were also way off. He may have fired fifty rounds, had one four, and three frame hits. He should be shooting AP from a supported position until he matures a bit more and can hold the pistol. That way he could learn sight alignment and trigger control.
The Nationals were a good event and there were some interesting challenges with a shortened schedule versus past Nationals. The volunteers that run the ranges worked very hard and some long hours.
More later...
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DLindenbaum
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
Pete - thanks for the kind invitation. I've shot WC at Benning and believe me, I truly appreciate the quality of the facility. Wish I could train in similar conditions, but then I'd be totally spoiled, wouldn't I? LoL
It's a shame the young shooter was DQ'd - sounds like his coach pretty much set him up for failure. This is the kind of negative experience those starting in the sport really don't need.
Dennis - I haven't shot in many international ranges at all, but can comment on a couple. Lighting is variable, in colour, intensity and uniformity. Doesn't seem to matter much to the top-flight shooters as they just adapt to it and do their best. One of the shortcomings of the Benning range, if I may be so bold as to describe it as such, is that firing point lighting is dimmable. I've watched a spectator lean against the dimmer control and the whole firing line looses about 20% of its lighting intensity. When this was eventually pointed out to the officials they didn't want to change it for fear of creating "unfair advantage". Not sure how that reasoning was derived, but that's the excuse we heard. When the lights are running at full intensity the air range at Benning is actually pretty darned good. You should try shooting at the Canadian Airgun Grand Prix if you want a real lighting challenge! ;-)
It's a shame the young shooter was DQ'd - sounds like his coach pretty much set him up for failure. This is the kind of negative experience those starting in the sport really don't need.
Dennis - I haven't shot in many international ranges at all, but can comment on a couple. Lighting is variable, in colour, intensity and uniformity. Doesn't seem to matter much to the top-flight shooters as they just adapt to it and do their best. One of the shortcomings of the Benning range, if I may be so bold as to describe it as such, is that firing point lighting is dimmable. I've watched a spectator lean against the dimmer control and the whole firing line looses about 20% of its lighting intensity. When this was eventually pointed out to the officials they didn't want to change it for fear of creating "unfair advantage". Not sure how that reasoning was derived, but that's the excuse we heard. When the lights are running at full intensity the air range at Benning is actually pretty darned good. You should try shooting at the Canadian Airgun Grand Prix if you want a real lighting challenge! ;-)
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_trinity_
This is not a flame but a gentle reminder, that a target is a target is a target.Mark Briggs wrote:I'll throw down a thought here and hope it will be taken in the positive light which is intended by the writer. The US Nationals are hosted in a wonderful facility. Please be thankful for having the opportunity to shoot on good target systems in a great range. There are MANY other countries, including my own, where shooters first encounter electronic targets once they've made the cut and have flown off to their first World Cup. Enjoy the excellent conditions you have, and do all that you can to support the sport and ensure the good facilities don't die of benign neglect.
On another note, frame hits in FP shouldn't be an embarassment. I have watched a very high-level international shooter register a frame hit on the 50m range at Benning. It happens to all of us once in a while. But too many of them can sure be hard on the hardware! ;-)
As much as I would like our ranges in our neck of the woods to improve, I know that having nicer ranges does not equate to better shooting. Unless of course, the range is in such poor condition, that it actually hinders good shooting. ie, shooting pistol at connaught in the middle of a wide open field with no wind shielding... that was nuts.
I think the onus is on us, the shooter to make the best of our conditions, and work on what's actually the real issue.
When I find myself thinking about how nice it would be to shoot on electronics all the time, or even turning targets, a small voice reminds me of that story of the Russian shooter, who was a janitor, and carved a pistol out of wood in order to practice shooting. Now, I have no idea if this story is true or not, but the point is, there are Olympians who've made it with less support than we have. You think Nestruev is going to say, "hey, that target isn't quite square to the ground", or, "paper targets? ewwww!" No, I seriously doubt it, Nestruev just goes up to the line, and shoots 10s. And I think that's what we have to train to do, regardless of what the range is like.
your fellow canuck,
_trinity_
Nationals
Hey Pete - nice to see you again. Nationals were another success. Though 20 hour drive from Nebraska - the plus is I enjoyed my stay in Lynchburg, TN !!! The minus side is driving through Birmingham, AL - 90mph on the interstate! Crazy people.
Nice relaxed atmosphere and helpful, friendly R.O.'s are a plus. Despite a faulty target the first day, managed to shoot a new high for me for a Nationals.
Plan to be back next year with my son.
Nice relaxed atmosphere and helpful, friendly R.O.'s are a plus. Despite a faulty target the first day, managed to shoot a new high for me for a Nationals.
Plan to be back next year with my son.
That story could easily be true. When I was shooting three position smallbore in Russia as part of a junior shooting team (well, that was 20 years ago), our coach had a Free Rifle stock filled with lead that he gave to the best shooter on our team to practice three position at home. He could NOT be happier. There was only one person on the team who had that privilege. The rest had to practice with no gun. I mastered watching movies and reading books from all three positions :-). Talk about limited budget.
_trinity_ wrote:When I find myself thinking about how nice it would be to shoot on electronics all the time, or even turning targets, a small voice reminds me of that story of the Russian shooter, who was a janitor, and carved a pistol out of wood in order to practice shooting. Now, I have no idea if this story is true or not, but the point is, there are Olympians who've made it with less support than we have. You think Nestruev is going to say, "hey, that target isn't quite square to the ground", or, "paper targets? ewwww!" No, I seriously doubt it, Nestruev just goes up to the line, and shoots 10s. And I think that's what we have to train to do, regardless of what the range is like.
your fellow canuck,
_trinity_
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
Hmmm, tried to post this yesterday but I guess it didn't make it through...
Trinity - your comment is right on the money. The only target that's important is the one in front of you, and it's the best one you're going to get so you might as well enjoy shooting at it. There's no intent to draw any inference between quality of range facility and the quality of my performance, although I have shot in conditions (as you've so accurately pointed out) that had a distinct influence on my final score. There's just something about shooting 50m pistol in a gale blowing across an open 1000 yard rifle range... ;-)
However, there was indeed a very strong intent to bring awareness to the fact that many shooters when reaching their first world cup are shooting in an extremely foreign environment with respect to target presentation, which represents a competitive disadvantage when compared to those who shoot on international-standard target systems regularly. As an example, the first time I shot 50m pistol on electronic targets I was amazed at how black the bullseye is. Likewise for the airgun targets where one can actually see the black backing tape is slightly further away from the shooter than the cream-coloured plastic front piece.
I guess the most important message I was trying to get across is that it's far easier to close down a range than to open one. As a case in point I'll draw your attention to the range where the Canadian Pistol Nationals will be held next month. It will be closed to make room for soccer fields. That leaves us with how many ranges capable of hosting the Nationals? You could count them on one hand, and still have enough fingers left over to type pretty quickly! If you're in a position where you've got good range facilities, support them actively, keep them open, and keep your political ties strong because these days it seems to be only political action which prevents ranges from being closed.
Trinity - your comment is right on the money. The only target that's important is the one in front of you, and it's the best one you're going to get so you might as well enjoy shooting at it. There's no intent to draw any inference between quality of range facility and the quality of my performance, although I have shot in conditions (as you've so accurately pointed out) that had a distinct influence on my final score. There's just something about shooting 50m pistol in a gale blowing across an open 1000 yard rifle range... ;-)
However, there was indeed a very strong intent to bring awareness to the fact that many shooters when reaching their first world cup are shooting in an extremely foreign environment with respect to target presentation, which represents a competitive disadvantage when compared to those who shoot on international-standard target systems regularly. As an example, the first time I shot 50m pistol on electronic targets I was amazed at how black the bullseye is. Likewise for the airgun targets where one can actually see the black backing tape is slightly further away from the shooter than the cream-coloured plastic front piece.
I guess the most important message I was trying to get across is that it's far easier to close down a range than to open one. As a case in point I'll draw your attention to the range where the Canadian Pistol Nationals will be held next month. It will be closed to make room for soccer fields. That leaves us with how many ranges capable of hosting the Nationals? You could count them on one hand, and still have enough fingers left over to type pretty quickly! If you're in a position where you've got good range facilities, support them actively, keep them open, and keep your political ties strong because these days it seems to be only political action which prevents ranges from being closed.
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_trinity_
I definitely agree with doing everything we can to keep ranges open. But wasn't the city going to give money so they could build a new range? Yeah, and that facility is one of the nicest ones in Canada. Soccer field... blah, I am sure parents will want their kids running around on a field right on top of all the lead we shot down range :-pMark Briggs wrote:Hmmm, tried to post this yesterday but I guess it didn't make it through...
Trinity - your comment is right on the money. The only target that's important is the one in front of you, and it's the best one you're going to get so you might as well enjoy shooting at it. There's no intent to draw any inference between quality of range facility and the quality of my performance, although I have shot in conditions (as you've so accurately pointed out) that had a distinct influence on my final score. There's just something about shooting 50m pistol in a gale blowing across an open 1000 yard rifle range... ;-)
However, there was indeed a very strong intent to bring awareness to the fact that many shooters when reaching their first world cup are shooting in an extremely foreign environment with respect to target presentation, which represents a competitive disadvantage when compared to those who shoot on international-standard target systems regularly. As an example, the first time I shot 50m pistol on electronic targets I was amazed at how black the bullseye is. Likewise for the airgun targets where one can actually see the black backing tape is slightly further away from the shooter than the cream-coloured plastic front piece.
I guess the most important message I was trying to get across is that it's far easier to close down a range than to open one. As a case in point I'll draw your attention to the range where the Canadian Pistol Nationals will be held next month. It will be closed to make room for soccer fields. That leaves us with how many ranges capable of hosting the Nationals? You could count them on one hand, and still have enough fingers left over to type pretty quickly! If you're in a position where you've got good range facilities, support them actively, keep them open, and keep your political ties strong because these days it seems to be only political action which prevents ranges from being closed.
_trinity_
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R.M.
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: On top of a mountain west of Golden Colorado
Well, there's certainly fields better suited for soccer in the area than that facility. Just look at the clean-up cost involved.
It's my bet that they'll make soccer fields out of it, then once everyone forgets what used to be there, they'll put a subdivision on it.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
C Y'all there.
R.M.
It's my bet that they'll make soccer fields out of it, then once everyone forgets what used to be there, they'll put a subdivision on it.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
C Y'all there.
R.M.
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wrc
Re: supporting the range
Unfortunately there is nothing that we, as the shooting public, can do in support of Benning, as it is a military facility, and the Army can do whatever they please with it. We in the USA also only have a handful, or really far less than a handful of quality ranges. The only way to keep them open is to keep in control of their ownership and location.
I have never shot at the Nats and I more than realize the variances in lighting conditions at different indoor ranges. I do believe the Army is finding some degree of difficulty in supporting the Fort Benning facility, as do other service shooting facilities, during this present international conflict. I for one traveled to Atlanta, Montreal, England, Berlin and a few other non-American shooting facilities. Some were outstanding, some were poor---but the lighting was never a problem at any of these facilities. True the shooter learns to adapt, but when you sponsor a national championship, that is to emulate the International forms of competition, one would assume that the sponsori would make an attempt to provide near ideal conditions IMHO. A goodly number of us that go to Perry, either learn to adapt to all levels of conditions or crash and burn, and almost always return with the famous adage " I never shoot well there.... ."
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F. Paul in Denver
I agree with Bob - a championship venue should have equipment consistent with the prominence of the event. However, I also believe that things like lighting and other similar details are of far less concern when you look at the bigger picture. Lighting, targets and creature comfort features can usually always be upgraded.
The bigger concern is securing and maintaining a suitable facility. On that point, WRC said it best:
"The only way to keep them open is to keep in control of their ownership and location."
This is the lesson we should be learning from the closure of the beautiful Strathcona range in Edmonton, Canada as well as the eventual demise of Ft. Benning.
F. Paul in Denver
The bigger concern is securing and maintaining a suitable facility. On that point, WRC said it best:
"The only way to keep them open is to keep in control of their ownership and location."
This is the lesson we should be learning from the closure of the beautiful Strathcona range in Edmonton, Canada as well as the eventual demise of Ft. Benning.
F. Paul in Denver