Explain this!Hi tech?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Explain this!Hi tech?
Two pistols, one a Steyr lp1 set to shoot 6 oclock hold ,set in a vise, and a Steyr lp10 set to shoot center bull hold, set in a vise. When removed from the vise both hit 10 when shot holding each in the center bull hold position.Whats the deal?
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aurorapolice02_11
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:33 am
- Location: Denver, CO
ummm,
you sure your technique was the exact same on each shot?
Same deal for both, I think!
Wondered if gun design differences could do it, but I don't think so.
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hi-tech
explanation
It is the secret pellet with built-in target seeker using nanotech. Made in German with Russian technology. Scott invested $200,000,000 into this project in 2004. Buck took the first experimental tin of 500 back to the States last month. No retail yet. First production run is estimated in 2007 while improved engine becomes available by Steve.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
One of the elements in the decision on which gun to buy is how it reacts in the hand. This can be different from person to person.
I would never dream of trying to zero a gun from a vise, unless it was for a competition shot from a vise.
If a competition is shot standing, single handed with open sights then that is how you should zero it.
I would never dream of trying to zero a gun from a vise, unless it was for a competition shot from a vise.
If a competition is shot standing, single handed with open sights then that is how you should zero it.
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Guest
The LP-10 has a shroud over the barrel, this dampens the viberations of the shot. The LP-1 has an open exposed barrel . This "could" explan the different impacts zones. I think you just aimed them wrong. I could also be wrong. You need to learn to trust yourself, we all have to shoot off hand and it can be hard at times, but you can always ask someone on TT.
Somene will come up with an answer, it might be a bad answer, but it is better than nothing. I might be wrong here too!
Somene will come up with an answer, it might be a bad answer, but it is better than nothing. I might be wrong here too!
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Guest
Certainly not the shroud itself as both LP1 and LP10 have them, but there are true technical differences which perfectly explain the POI shift in this case.
LP10's claim to superiority is elimination of the recoil impulse by "mobile bolt mass" and barrel porting. While inherent recoil is minimal in an air pistol, it's still there - basic Newtonian physics at work! - and without counter-recoil measures some motion in the hand, however small, is inevitable. Which also might go a long way to explaining why a friend's well-sighted pistol turns out not to be well-sighted for you.
The lesson is not neccessarily "gotta have an LP10" but surely "gotta sight your gun in your hand."
-David
LP10's claim to superiority is elimination of the recoil impulse by "mobile bolt mass" and barrel porting. While inherent recoil is minimal in an air pistol, it's still there - basic Newtonian physics at work! - and without counter-recoil measures some motion in the hand, however small, is inevitable. Which also might go a long way to explaining why a friend's well-sighted pistol turns out not to be well-sighted for you.
The lesson is not neccessarily "gotta have an LP10" but surely "gotta sight your gun in your hand."
-David
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R.E. Smalley
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:24 pm
- Location: Beloit, OH
poi shifts
Hey folks;
I am back again, new digs and another new career (again) but it looks like I'll be here a while and get to start shooting once again. Again!
I have an IZH 46M and an IZH 35M. I am not a very good shooter, but I am working on it. Again!
How you hold the gun has a big influence on where it prints. Here's a few personal examples.
I am currently cutting the grips to fit my hand. I will adjust a little at a time and then shoot for a couple of weeks with it and see how comfortable it is.
Every time I make an adjustment to the shape of the grip it will shift POI somewhat. The air pistol is more sensitive than the rimfire because the projectile spends more time in the barrel (and other reasons).
When I go away for work and return up to 3 months later I will pick up the pistol and sometimes have to re-sight it because I am holding it differently. My physical condition changes from day to day because I have rheumatoid arthritus and I see its effect on how I hold the gun in where it prints. This much more so with the AP than any other.
I had problems about 4 years ago deveoping loads for a scoped, 10 5/8 inch barreled, S&W 44mag. I kept getting low fliers and couldn't understand why. When I switched the grip from the Pachmayer rubber grip to a checkered wood grip, with finger grooves, the problem went away and the 100 yard groups shrank to 1 5/8 inches.
After a couple of rounds, I would start squeezing the grips harder and actually shift the POI more than 2 inches. (240 grain hornady jacketed hollowpoint chronographed at around 1450 fps will make you do this, trust me. Basic Newtonian Physics at work!)
I tell this to illustrate the point that others are making. Sighting a gun in from a vise or off the bench should put you in the ball park, but that's all you should expect from it. (Similar to bore sighting a rifle) For me it's a good way to find out if I am in the pellet trap or the landlord's wallpaper!
How you hold the gun, particularly an AP, has a large effect on where it prints. Changes to anything, including yourself, and you should not be surprised if POI shifts.
Later folks,
Ralph
I am back again, new digs and another new career (again) but it looks like I'll be here a while and get to start shooting once again. Again!
I have an IZH 46M and an IZH 35M. I am not a very good shooter, but I am working on it. Again!
How you hold the gun has a big influence on where it prints. Here's a few personal examples.
I am currently cutting the grips to fit my hand. I will adjust a little at a time and then shoot for a couple of weeks with it and see how comfortable it is.
Every time I make an adjustment to the shape of the grip it will shift POI somewhat. The air pistol is more sensitive than the rimfire because the projectile spends more time in the barrel (and other reasons).
When I go away for work and return up to 3 months later I will pick up the pistol and sometimes have to re-sight it because I am holding it differently. My physical condition changes from day to day because I have rheumatoid arthritus and I see its effect on how I hold the gun in where it prints. This much more so with the AP than any other.
I had problems about 4 years ago deveoping loads for a scoped, 10 5/8 inch barreled, S&W 44mag. I kept getting low fliers and couldn't understand why. When I switched the grip from the Pachmayer rubber grip to a checkered wood grip, with finger grooves, the problem went away and the 100 yard groups shrank to 1 5/8 inches.
After a couple of rounds, I would start squeezing the grips harder and actually shift the POI more than 2 inches. (240 grain hornady jacketed hollowpoint chronographed at around 1450 fps will make you do this, trust me. Basic Newtonian Physics at work!)
I tell this to illustrate the point that others are making. Sighting a gun in from a vise or off the bench should put you in the ball park, but that's all you should expect from it. (Similar to bore sighting a rifle) For me it's a good way to find out if I am in the pellet trap or the landlord's wallpaper!
How you hold the gun, particularly an AP, has a large effect on where it prints. Changes to anything, including yourself, and you should not be surprised if POI shifts.
Later folks,
Ralph