ghost ring sights in Olympic events

[db]

Anyone familiar with ghost ring sights knows they are another version of open metallic sights, the other being notch and post......both front and rear are small metallic circles.........they do not have a shroud and are not a "protective cover".....does anyone know FOR SURE if they are permitted in 25 m Standard Pistol and 25 m Rapid Fire Olympic style events ???

[Guest]

Ghost ring sights. . . they are another version of open metallic sights, .....both front and rear are small metallic circles.........

Are the ghost ring sights OPEN sights - - - OR - - - or are they small metallic CIRCLES. They cant be both because circles are not OPEN.

If they are metallic circles and therefore not OPEN, they are prohibited by Rule 8.4.2.3 which provides:

"Only open sights are allowed"

[RobStubbs]

I would suggest they are not permitted but I don't know. I can't picture what they are - the only circular type sights I know of are for rifle - which are prohibited on pistols. As guest says the ISSF rules permit only open sights. Check out their website for the full rules if you want to find out yourself.

Rob.

[David Levene]

Are these the type of sights that are a small solid disc (as opposed to a circle) as the rear sight with a larger solid disc as the front sight. You put the small rear sight disc in the middle of the larger front sight disc and the whole thing in the middle of the big black disc (the target).

If so then, whilst I have little doubt that they would be banned by a Jury under rule 6.4.3 "Spirit and Intent", it does raise an interesting question.

So far as I know the last time such sights were considered by the ISSF was in the early/mid 1980s. They were banned, from memory, because they did not look like the (post and notch) sights depicted in the drawings in the pistol technical rules. It is interesting that since 1st January 2006, the effective date of the 2nd printing of the 2005 rules, the drawings in 8.17.0 no longer show a "shooters view" of post and notch sights. I doubt however if the side view of the sights that remains in that rule could be construed as disc sights (but I could be wrong).

Being realistic I am fairly certain that, one way or another, the ISSF would find a way of banning them, like they did 25(ish) years ago.

[Gort]

The handgun Ghost Ring Sights refered to consist of a post front sight and a LARGE apature rear, on the order of 6mm to 8mm. These sights were designed to enhance speed in combat shooting and never lived up to their promise. These sights were never intended to and do not provide the precision requied for ISSF.
Gort

[David Levene]

The handgun Ghost Ring Sights refered to consist of a post front sight and a LARGE apature rear, on the order of 6mm to 8mm.

If the rear sight is an aperture then I agree with "Guest"; not allowed under 8.4.2.3.

[Richard H]

Here's a link so everyone can see what they are talking about. They are totally unacceptable for ISSF or bullseye type shooting. (even if the rules allowed them).

http://www.arotek.com/Articles/Aro-Tek' ... %20Set.htm

[RobStubbs]

Richard,
Cheers for the link - they are obviously not 'open sights' so not allowed.

Rob.

[jhurr]

If you chopped the top of the rear ring off that should be allowable.
You would get a kind of 'ghost' effect for the top of the ring.

[Richard H]

If you chopped the top of the rear ring off that should be allowable.
You would get a kind of 'ghost' effect for the top of the ring.

What advantage would that give you over regular open sights? Those sights are meant for combat handgun so that you can get a quick aquisition of the target and place a couple of rounds within a 3-4 inch diameter circle. Next problem how would you mount them none are designed to be mounted on match pistols? I can't see why anyone would ant to go to the trouble toget sights like this mounted. I don't know of any ghost ring sights that are adjustable either.

Everything different isn't always better, these sights have a designed purpose and that purpose isn't precision target shooting.

[db]

The personal advantage (not everyone) I find of ghost rings over typical "notch and post" is that when shooting at a circular target they are extremely easy to acquire sight picture of circle (front sight) within a circle (rear sight) ESPECIALLY on speed type events such as Olympic Rapid Fire..also easier for older (past 40) eyes....if the front circle is the right size they can be very accurate...........I guess they are an "aperture" type sight typical of the front sight on Olympic rifles....If this means they don't meet the designation "open" then it has been brought up that taking off a part of the top ring should suffice in that regard

[Fred]

As I posted on TargetShooting Canada:
Along those lines, I have often wondered whether a U-notch rear coupled with an appropriately sized bead front might be useful. It would appear to the shooter as a circle (on a post) inside another circle (the target) cupped inside a semi-circle (the rear sight). Since appropriately sized bead front sights for most target guns don't exist AFAIK, I have never been able to try out this idea. Still I shoot very well with it in my dreams :-)

We know that U-notch rear sights are ISSF legal, e.g. every TOZ rear sight blade has a square and a U notch. I can see no reason why a bead front sight would not be legal. So DB's idea in the previous post, and mine here, are essentially the same, and both should be ISSF legal. However there would be quite a bit of time and effort - not to say money - involved in experimenting and machining. Not something I am qualified to do, and rather a distraction.

FredB

[Mike M.]

I'll confess to a desire to fit a RF pistol with a set of Guttersnipe channel sights - which I think would be perfectly legal. Unorthodox, but legal.

[David Levene]

Guttersnipe channel sights

?????????

[Gort]

Gutter snipe was another unsuccessful attempt as a speed combat sight. It consisted of a small c-channel layed axially on top of the slide, the idea was to sight down the channel and line up the far end with the close end giving a small u, centered in a larger u. Their is a reason that the patridge (square post, square notch) sight system has become universal, after 100 years of experimentation, nothing has proved to be as precise and fast. Many sight systems have been introduced in the last 30 years and none have shown an advantage to the patridge and I think this is a system that has proven optimal for the human eye.
Gort

[db]

as we are all different, we all know what is "optimal" for one person may not be for another.......just trying to do what's proven "optimal" for me in a different shooting persuasuion

[Justin]

Along those lines, I have often wondered whether a U-notch rear coupled with an appropriately sized bead front might be useful. It would appear to the shooter as a circle (on a post) inside another circle (the target) cupped inside a semi-circle (the rear sight).

Hmmm. Stack the circles. That's an interesting thought.

FWIW, Ghost rings are useful for shooting a rifle or shotgun rapidly and instinctually. You see them a lot on iron-sighted guns for the more combat-oriented sports, and most AR15's come standard with a rear sight that flips from a peep sight to a Ghost Ring.

Due to the short sight radius of a handgun, and that ghost rings are more for shooting quickly than with surgical precision, I doubt they'd be of much use on a target pistol.