A little help please.

derekm · Post by **derekm** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:59 am

Hi Guys
Just a novice, (10m air pistol, 10m & 20yard sport air rifle) trying to glean bits of knowledge from all over!
Pilkguns site, article by Anatoliy Piddubnyy part 2. Discussion on balanced posture and reinforced posture.
He refers to shots that are too long (balanced posture) and reinforced posture "makes sure there are no long shots".
In this context, what is a long shot, please.
Until now (non shooting), I have understood a long shot to be an outside chance, remote possibilty or similar.
Thanks for your patience and I hope, explanation.

derekm · Post by **derekm** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:59 am

Come on guys! 20 views and no reply. It may well be a dumb question, but I'm sure you were all beginners once.

deleted1 · Post by **deleted1** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:38 am

I have no experience with rifle--but with AP that's another story. I have no idea what he (?) means by long shots.. But by some guesswork he might refer to shots that come after an inordinate time---similar to just holding and holding until you snap one off in despiration. Your best bet is to work on acquiring a shooting stance that you feel "comfortable", then the grip on you gun of choice---when you lift that pistol and try to achieve (1) a sight picture like in the books---at first it may take you several seconds to acquire that alone; (2) now you see the sight wobbling all over the place and occasionally dipping into the bull; (3) now you're trying to sqeeze the damn trigger and get that sight picture to settle down and it won't go off (chicken finger); (4) I'm running out of breath and my heart is pumping, I feel faint; (5) Hell, snap the trigger; (6) What there's no hole on the target---@#$#@^%%%$^. This is the typical frustration of the novice, to which there is no instantaneous remedy and immediate satisfaction. You are starting a long and offtimes arduous task of learning to shoot a pistol. Read books, look at stances analyzed, achieving a sight picture, location of the trigger finger on the trigger, breathing and finally squeezing off a round---lot's of practise.
As an (poor) example my shot plan involves settting up my stance, gripping the gun and checking my trigger finger location, two to three deep breaths to saturate my lungs, load and set the trigger (Free Pistol), turn my eyes toward the target and let my eyes get accustomed, Start the Lift--pick up the front sight early (helps focus on the front sight), finger is lightly on the trigger, continue the lift and let out some air, settle the front sight on the bull--the squeeze (18 grams) is already in action---the front sight is level---squeezing through the slight wobble---bang!!!---follow through---mentally call the shot---lower the gun---check the spotting scope----record the shot----rest, prepare the next shot---rest---repeat. If the sequence is altered or you started thinking about something other than this Shot----PUT THE GUN DOWN AND START ALL OVER AGAIN---in an 60 shot FP match I may lift that gun over 80 times---so it averages over 20 shots plus/minus in a match. Don't be tempted to hold the pistol up there and tough out a shot---your shot should off with 4-6 seconds after settling the lift on the POA. A lot said but I think a way to get started without a personal coach standing by you with the timer going.

GOVTMODEL · Post by **GOVTMODEL** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:39 am

derekm wrote: In this context, what is a long shot, please.

Few new shooters can hold longer than about ten seconds. For most folks, six to eight seconds is the limit. After that, a couple of undesireable things start to happen:
a. Your arm gets tired and your arc of movement increases, and,
b. Your eyes fatigue and you no longer detect sight alignment errors.

As always, YMMV-

Richard

derekm · Post by **derekm** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:54 am

Thanks Bob & Govt
The time factor is logical and I imagine you are both correct. If anyone knows any different, please speak up!
I agree about the 6 to 8 seconds; it seems like forever!
I know it is going to be a long slow slog and I just keep practicing and trying to accumulate as much knowledge as I can. I also like to understand what I'm trying to do, rather than simply monkey see, monkey do.
I'm averaging about 78 or 80 from 100 with a best of 89 so far, 4 months into the sport. This is with a Daisy 717, an excellent starter gun, but rather heavy for a little guy. Hopefully my average will increase some when I receive my ALFA Sport. 11.5 ounces lighter and no need to pump (CO2).
Thanks again for your replies.

F. Paul in Denver · Post by **F. Paul in Denver** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:33 pm

derekm wrote:I just keep practicing and trying to accumulate as much knowledge as I can. I also like to understand what I'm trying to do, rather than simply monkey see, monkey do.

I know the feeling Derek.

Heres a suggestion - search the Target Talk archives for articles posted by the following authors:

Hall - Swartz and of course Riegl.

You'll find these three monkeys well worth imitating.

Ed Hall has also posted some great stuff in article form at:

http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/articlesand.html

Well worth the read.

F. Paul in Denver

derekm · Post by **derekm** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:17 pm

Thanks F Paul in Denver, will do. It really helps to be pointed in the right direction; there's so much information out there that the mind boggles!

cdf · Post by **cdf** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:35 pm

Check out Nygord's Notes , a veritable treasure trove . Avoid overholding like the plague , avoid the instinct to muscle or fix things ( you can't ) . Practice dryfiring against a blank wall , when things look bad , abort . Be agressive about aborting , and obcessed with followthru . You will reap big dividends .

Deffinatly stroll thru the arcvhives , ther is some very good info there .

Chris

22dude · Post by **22dude** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:43 am

The "US Army's Pistol Marksmanship Traing Guide" has a great deal of info and graphics on the the timing of a shot. It is available in pdf format for download, with a simple search. I printed the whole thing and read it like the Bible, learning something new everytime.

derekm · Post by **derekm** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:21 am

Cheers Dude; downloaded and partly read (1st time) already. You are right about the amount of material and I can well imagine that extra bit sinking in on each reading. I like the way everything is explained too (no monkey see monkey do!!).
I have always said that American textbooks and technical manuals are far superior to ours in the UK and this is just one more excellent example.
To understand a UK textbook on electrical engineering for example, you need the college degree before you start, negating the need for the book!
When everything starts at "plowboy" level (US spelling?) there are no misunderstandings.

mikeschroeder · Post by **mikeschroeder** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:46 am

Hi

Another book would be Gil Hebard's Treasury of Pistol shooting. Great book. Like the Army's Pistol marksmanship book, I learn something every time I pick it up.

His phone number is probably listed somewhere in the archives of this sight. The book is also available from Champion's shooter's supply. Don't remember is Pilk carries it or not.

Mike
Wichita KS

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A little help please.

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