free pistol scores plateau
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elliott
free pistol scores plateau
Steve Schwartz, where are you? I read your manual and incorporated your ideas on physical conditioning, mental conditioning, etc. I seem to have plateaued at the high 480s. Most of my shots are in the 8/9 ring, a few in the 10, virtually none in the seven, but a slew of 6's and almost always some flyers out in the 2,3 ring. What sage advice can you give a 56 year old shooter who would like to get over the 500 mark?
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Ed Hall
Sorry, I'm not Steve Swartz, but I'd like to offer something:
The trouble you describe is almost always trigger operation related. If you really concentrate on "seeing" what happens during the unfolding of the shot, you will probably discover that you are aligning everything, THEN starting the trigger, stopping because the "picture" became unacceptable, and then trying to complete the shot the instant the picture looks good again. Alternately, you may be trying to "fix" the picture as the shot completes.
Two things (from above) are detrimental to success:
1) Waiting for the perfect picture to start the trigger. If you wait, you'll always be behind the peak and miss your best hold.
2) Trying to "fix" something in your picture. This actually has two facets of its own:
a) Any "fix" action taken is an abrupt divergence from the natural hold and causes your subconscious to have to re-evaluate your hold. If the fixes are too frequent the subconscious gives up.
b) A "fix" is translated as something being wrong and often causes the trigger operation to halt until the wrong is corrected. A hesitant trigger mixed in with "fix" actions will often result in shots outside the hold.
OK, I wrote lots of possible trouble spots. Do I have suggestions for getting through? Of course, that's why I jumped in.
First, I know it doesn't take a lot of effort to fire a Free Pistol, but with as little effort as there is, we still manage to make it a long, drawn out process. Learning to make it easy (which will also be somewhat quick) through dry firing is a must. The biggest hindrance is trying to only fire while the picture is good, so the trigger is better rehearsed without a bull present. IOW, blank wall dry firing to learn how to operate the trigger from start to click without hesitation is prescribed.
Next, study your hold against a bull without any trigger manipulation. See how the pattern unfolds. Watch for the excursions and moments when the pattern compresses. Let your subconscious learn what to expect when seeing the hold progress without interference.
Finally, trust your process. Be determined that if you decide to fire, the shot will be good. This will help you complete the shot without hesitation and the success will add to the confidence which will increase the success. If wild shots happen, brush them aside. Don't find any interest in unwanted things. Spend your emotions on what you want to expand.
An exercise to try at the range is to start using the edge of the bull as an initiation point for your trigger operation. If you're using center hold, as you settle into the bull, start the trigger when the sights first pick up black. If you use six or sub-six, initiate the trigger operation when you first leave the bottom of the bull, IOW, when you see the first sliver of white at the bottom. For each of these continue settling into your aiming area, but expect the shot to happen as you get there.
The above exercise may quite likely change your zero. Initially, look only for groups. Don't do any sight adjusting until you have a good group to work with. For all of it, try to be exacting in the duplication of your shot process down to the very smallest detail. The more consistent, the smaller the group will be.
All feedback is always welcome.
Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/
The trouble you describe is almost always trigger operation related. If you really concentrate on "seeing" what happens during the unfolding of the shot, you will probably discover that you are aligning everything, THEN starting the trigger, stopping because the "picture" became unacceptable, and then trying to complete the shot the instant the picture looks good again. Alternately, you may be trying to "fix" the picture as the shot completes.
Two things (from above) are detrimental to success:
1) Waiting for the perfect picture to start the trigger. If you wait, you'll always be behind the peak and miss your best hold.
2) Trying to "fix" something in your picture. This actually has two facets of its own:
a) Any "fix" action taken is an abrupt divergence from the natural hold and causes your subconscious to have to re-evaluate your hold. If the fixes are too frequent the subconscious gives up.
b) A "fix" is translated as something being wrong and often causes the trigger operation to halt until the wrong is corrected. A hesitant trigger mixed in with "fix" actions will often result in shots outside the hold.
OK, I wrote lots of possible trouble spots. Do I have suggestions for getting through? Of course, that's why I jumped in.
First, I know it doesn't take a lot of effort to fire a Free Pistol, but with as little effort as there is, we still manage to make it a long, drawn out process. Learning to make it easy (which will also be somewhat quick) through dry firing is a must. The biggest hindrance is trying to only fire while the picture is good, so the trigger is better rehearsed without a bull present. IOW, blank wall dry firing to learn how to operate the trigger from start to click without hesitation is prescribed.
Next, study your hold against a bull without any trigger manipulation. See how the pattern unfolds. Watch for the excursions and moments when the pattern compresses. Let your subconscious learn what to expect when seeing the hold progress without interference.
Finally, trust your process. Be determined that if you decide to fire, the shot will be good. This will help you complete the shot without hesitation and the success will add to the confidence which will increase the success. If wild shots happen, brush them aside. Don't find any interest in unwanted things. Spend your emotions on what you want to expand.
An exercise to try at the range is to start using the edge of the bull as an initiation point for your trigger operation. If you're using center hold, as you settle into the bull, start the trigger when the sights first pick up black. If you use six or sub-six, initiate the trigger operation when you first leave the bottom of the bull, IOW, when you see the first sliver of white at the bottom. For each of these continue settling into your aiming area, but expect the shot to happen as you get there.
The above exercise may quite likely change your zero. Initially, look only for groups. Don't do any sight adjusting until you have a good group to work with. For all of it, try to be exacting in the duplication of your shot process down to the very smallest detail. The more consistent, the smaller the group will be.
All feedback is always welcome.
Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/
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jrmcdaniel
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:01 pm
- Location: Grantsville, MD
Suggestion
Everyone plateaus.
I found that I had a breakthrough when I started aligning the sights against the area below the bullseye and then -- while concentrating solely on the front blade -- aligned the front sight with the bullseye. One can verify that this works by dry firing while shooting at a blank target or wall.
Other things as described above include adjusting the aim with the trigger finger (more a thought process than anything physical). Also, try positioning your finger on the trigger so that dry firing has no effect at all on the sight picture. The common wisdom of using the ball of the finger in the middle of the blade is (in my opinion) only a starting place. Whatever works for you is the correct placement.
Best,
Joe
I found that I had a breakthrough when I started aligning the sights against the area below the bullseye and then -- while concentrating solely on the front blade -- aligned the front sight with the bullseye. One can verify that this works by dry firing while shooting at a blank target or wall.
Other things as described above include adjusting the aim with the trigger finger (more a thought process than anything physical). Also, try positioning your finger on the trigger so that dry firing has no effect at all on the sight picture. The common wisdom of using the ball of the finger in the middle of the blade is (in my opinion) only a starting place. Whatever works for you is the correct placement.
Best,
Joe
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Ed,
As always, excellent advice. I would add two thoughts - 1. if it doesn't feel right, or if you wonder why you haven't yet fired, put down the pistol and start over; 2. I find that your approach works better, for me, with a roll trigger rather than a crisp trigger. One of the reasons I don't care for the Morini electronic trigger.
Regards,
Fred
As always, excellent advice. I would add two thoughts - 1. if it doesn't feel right, or if you wonder why you haven't yet fired, put down the pistol and start over; 2. I find that your approach works better, for me, with a roll trigger rather than a crisp trigger. One of the reasons I don't care for the Morini electronic trigger.
Regards,
Fred
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
Once again, I'm not Steve Schwartz either (although I'd like to steal some of his scores!).
I've danced with the devil when it comes to FP trigger control, and still do so on a regular basis. It seems to be the bane of my existance. When my poor old brain is left to its own devices I end up snatching the trigger and flipping shots waaaaaaay out into the wild blue yonder. I feel your pain, brother!
The Morini FP with its electronic trigger provides no pre-travel so there's no sensation of movement prior to the shot firing. One of the cures I've found for poor trigger technique in this situation is to drastically increase the trigger weight. With much higher weights a shooter is forced to once again concentrate on applying a steadily increasing force to the trigger shoe. The shooter is then applying far more mental energy to actuating the trigger smoothly than to worrying about where the sights are relative to the bullseye. The net result is that I spend my mental energy on ensuring the sights are aligned, and keeping them that way as I increase trigger pressure smoothly to the point where the shot fires.
If I have a good solid hold my shots will all go into the 8-ring or better when using this technique. On days when my hold's not so good I might get a few 6's and 7's, but still a large number of 9's and better. Increasing trigger weight, although it's somewhat counter-intuitive, has in my case proven to be an excellent method of improving trigger control.
I've danced with the devil when it comes to FP trigger control, and still do so on a regular basis. It seems to be the bane of my existance. When my poor old brain is left to its own devices I end up snatching the trigger and flipping shots waaaaaaay out into the wild blue yonder. I feel your pain, brother!
The Morini FP with its electronic trigger provides no pre-travel so there's no sensation of movement prior to the shot firing. One of the cures I've found for poor trigger technique in this situation is to drastically increase the trigger weight. With much higher weights a shooter is forced to once again concentrate on applying a steadily increasing force to the trigger shoe. The shooter is then applying far more mental energy to actuating the trigger smoothly than to worrying about where the sights are relative to the bullseye. The net result is that I spend my mental energy on ensuring the sights are aligned, and keeping them that way as I increase trigger pressure smoothly to the point where the shot fires.
If I have a good solid hold my shots will all go into the 8-ring or better when using this technique. On days when my hold's not so good I might get a few 6's and 7's, but still a large number of 9's and better. Increasing trigger weight, although it's somewhat counter-intuitive, has in my case proven to be an excellent method of improving trigger control.
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Bruce Martindale
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:46 pm
There are only two fundamentals, pointing and pulling, everything else is a technique to achieve these two things. The trick is that these two happen in parallel, not in series. A trigger pull is a trigger pull, doesnt matter if it is at the bench, at the target or for the world championship. It is always the same. Pointing and holding is just that. It settles down and then gets worse as you tire. Learn to put the gun down if a shadow of doubt comes in. Start the trigger pull and dont stop, trust your hold and really look at the sights at this time. Think of a shot as a continuum like a spray hose, not an instant event like a camera picture.
Most people mess up a good hold with poor trigger control.
regards
Most people mess up a good hold with poor trigger control.
regards
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Bill Poole
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:50 pm
- Location: Scottsdale, AZ
- Contact:
?everyone plateaus
I didnt' know there was a plateau... not even when I observed my own AP scores leveled and I found it terribly frustrating, especially when theythey started a downhill slope. I didn't realize that there was such a thing as a plateau until I mentioned my lack of progress to a rifle shooter from Benning recently and he referred to the 560 plateau.... and I knew I was there and there might be hope.... I'm not the only one....
so I mentioned the "plateau" to our local national team member....
and was lectured mercilessly that there IS NO PLATEAU... if you think there is a plateau you will stop progressing....
so what is it? there is a plateau, if you don't know about it you get frustrated when u hit it and go downhill or if you do know about it you are artificially creating a mental limitation on your progress?
Poole
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elliott
free pistol score plateau
Thank you to all who responded. I got some very good ideas and I really like the idea of bumping up the trigger pull weight. I have it set now for about 150 grams, but maybe higher will take my mind off concentrating so much on the smoothness and more on the front sight/alignment. To all who contributed ideas, my thanks
Elliott Dushkin
Elliott Dushkin
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elliott
free pistol score plateau
Thank you to all who responded. I got some very good ideas and I really like the idea of bumping up the trigger pull weight. I have it set now for about 150 grams, but maybe higher will take my mind off concentrating so much on the smoothness and more on the front sight/alignment. To all who contributed ideas, my thanks
Elliott Dushkin
Elliott Dushkin
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elliott
free pistol score plateau
Thank you to all who responded. I got some very good ideas and I really like the idea of bumping up the trigger pull weight. I have it set now for about 150 grams, but maybe higher will take my mind off concentrating so much on the smoothness and more on the front sight/alignment. To all who contributed ideas, my thanks
Elliott Dushkin
Elliott Dushkin
There is not just one plateau there are many. Scores will go up and down and the trick is to stop the downs going too far or overcoming the plateaus. I think the only solution is constant quality training of the right sort. Critically evaluate your shooting and look for areas that could be improved and then work on them. Do your dry fireing, do those warm up exercises, concentrate 100% on every shot etc..Bill Poole wrote: so what is it? there is a plateau, if you don't know about it you get frustrated when u hit it and go downhill or if you do know about it you are artificially creating a mental limitation on your progress?
Poole
Rob.
And not just into your own wild blue yonder but mine as well.Mark Briggs wrote:Once again, I'm not Steve Schwartz either (although I'd like to steal some of his scores!).
I've danced with the devil when it comes to FP trigger control, and still do so on a regular basis. It seems to be the bane of my existance. When my poor old brain is left to its own devices I end up snatching the trigger and flipping shots waaaaaaay out into the wild blue yonder. I feel your pain, brother!
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jrmcdaniel
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:01 pm
- Location: Grantsville, MD
It has been "proven" that there is no such thing as a batter's slump. If one generates "hits" randomly with, say, a probability of .300, you will see periods of "slump" and periods when the "batter" is hitting over the average. Shooting, like hitting, has both a random (statistical) aspect as well as skill.
As Ed Hall suggested, don't look at the "flyers" but only at the groupings -- this is an attempt to reduce one's valuation of statistical outliers.
Best,
Joe
As Ed Hall suggested, don't look at the "flyers" but only at the groupings -- this is an attempt to reduce one's valuation of statistical outliers.
Best,
Joe
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
Richard H Wrote:
"And not just into your own wild blue yonder but mine as well."
Geez Richard, do you HAVE to keep rubbing it in? ;-)
Of course, I could fire a retaliatory shot at you too by saying that at least all 60 of my shots hit the paper (maybe not all on my own paper, but paper nonetheless). Have you repaired the hole in the shooting bench yet? :!)
Since I won't be at the provincials this year, who are you going to blame for the 4's on your target this time around?
OK, OK, I'll ease off now... While that particular match was frustrating to the extreme for me, it's nice to know that in hindsight it's something we can all laugh at.
(For those who are reading this and wondering "what the heck?", at our provincials last summer I had a problem with floaters in my eyes and couldn't see very well. As a result I put a shot into the 4-ring of Richard's target, and also blasted a couple of 8's on the target of the shooter to my right. What a miserable match that was. But I have to admit the toughest time I had during the match was after I watched Richard blast a hole through his shooting towel and the bench, a little 10-point "oops". The look on his face after that little episode was worth the price of admission! After that I had a heck of a time keeping a straight face. And believe me, it's NOT easy to shoot FP when you're trying not to laugh!)
"And not just into your own wild blue yonder but mine as well."
Geez Richard, do you HAVE to keep rubbing it in? ;-)
Of course, I could fire a retaliatory shot at you too by saying that at least all 60 of my shots hit the paper (maybe not all on my own paper, but paper nonetheless). Have you repaired the hole in the shooting bench yet? :!)
Since I won't be at the provincials this year, who are you going to blame for the 4's on your target this time around?
OK, OK, I'll ease off now... While that particular match was frustrating to the extreme for me, it's nice to know that in hindsight it's something we can all laugh at.
(For those who are reading this and wondering "what the heck?", at our provincials last summer I had a problem with floaters in my eyes and couldn't see very well. As a result I put a shot into the 4-ring of Richard's target, and also blasted a couple of 8's on the target of the shooter to my right. What a miserable match that was. But I have to admit the toughest time I had during the match was after I watched Richard blast a hole through his shooting towel and the bench, a little 10-point "oops". The look on his face after that little episode was worth the price of admission! After that I had a heck of a time keeping a straight face. And believe me, it's NOT easy to shoot FP when you're trying not to laugh!)
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LineCutter
Scores, expectations & statistics
First off, I've been lurking about & I'll confess I'm primarily an archer. There, I said it.
Why break cover: well, I wrote some software (Windows only I'm afraid) that takes your past performance & uses it as a guide to your expectations for a score. This should make the "batter's slump" more obviously a random wander & will also make it clear if your new level of performance is really a change. IMHO!
http://www.triffid.clara.co.uk/FullMonte.html
NB. Although the software will work fine for pistol shooting, it's been written for indoor archery. You'll need to mentally replace "arrows" with "shots" & ignore the option of scoring "X"s.
Feedback would be interesting... email copies would be great - I'm not going to be lurking much in the next week or so.
Why break cover: well, I wrote some software (Windows only I'm afraid) that takes your past performance & uses it as a guide to your expectations for a score. This should make the "batter's slump" more obviously a random wander & will also make it clear if your new level of performance is really a change. IMHO!
http://www.triffid.clara.co.uk/FullMonte.html
NB. Although the software will work fine for pistol shooting, it's been written for indoor archery. You'll need to mentally replace "arrows" with "shots" & ignore the option of scoring "X"s.
Feedback would be interesting... email copies would be great - I'm not going to be lurking much in the next week or so.
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Steve Swartz
Elliott:
Geeze, hope my random thoughts have helped you in the past and thanks for thinking of me when you need help. Now I really feel the pressure to say something deep and meaningful! =8^)
Congratulations on making good progreess and sticking with it! Of course, even with Ed's excellent advice, I can never just "leave well enough alone;" so in addition to just saying "Ditto What Ed Said" I'd like to offer the following. This does not replace what he said, just emphasizes one aspect.
Sometimes what I have experienced with a "slump" or "plateau" (why can't I always shoot better than my average?!?) is related to what I call "Trust Issues."
Even when we finally realize that "the fundamentals" mean
- focus on front sight
- concentrate on aligning the sights
- recognize and accept settle
- give permission to increase pressure on the trigger
- resulting in the unexpected, subconscious, clean break well inside hold area
***No more, no less, nothing fancy, nothing complicated***
Most of us STILL insist on trying to "consciously manage" the process. So what does this have to do with performance irregularities such as you describe?
Well, "diagnosing with a 2,000 mile stethoscope" here, maybe this applies. Maybe not.
So we finally accept and internalize "the fundamentals." We start executing some really clean shots. We may even have strings of 4 or 6 shots where "the process" goes on autopilot.
Then, for some reason (random variance in wobble pattern, not thinking happy thoughts, whatever) the subconscious process results in a wide shot.
Best Case Scenario: we totally ignore it and continue to groove
Worst Case Scenario: we try to figure out "what went wrong" in order to prevent it- which totally screws up the flow of our shot plan and we throguh some **really** horrendous shots up against the target- maybe (even worst, worst case) even luck out and shoot a conscious ten or two which totally takes us outside the flow.
So how to fix? Don't do it! Okay, this maybe has to do with being able to recognize when the "autopilot" shot plan flow has been disturbed and having the courage to put the gun down, press the reset button, and start over.
TRUST THE PROCESS ON EVERY SINGLE SHOT
Even if this isn't exactly what's going on in your performance right now, this is good generic advice anyhow because if you follow it, you will always shoot up to your potential, right?
Steve
Geeze, hope my random thoughts have helped you in the past and thanks for thinking of me when you need help. Now I really feel the pressure to say something deep and meaningful! =8^)
Congratulations on making good progreess and sticking with it! Of course, even with Ed's excellent advice, I can never just "leave well enough alone;" so in addition to just saying "Ditto What Ed Said" I'd like to offer the following. This does not replace what he said, just emphasizes one aspect.
Sometimes what I have experienced with a "slump" or "plateau" (why can't I always shoot better than my average?!?) is related to what I call "Trust Issues."
Even when we finally realize that "the fundamentals" mean
- focus on front sight
- concentrate on aligning the sights
- recognize and accept settle
- give permission to increase pressure on the trigger
- resulting in the unexpected, subconscious, clean break well inside hold area
***No more, no less, nothing fancy, nothing complicated***
Most of us STILL insist on trying to "consciously manage" the process. So what does this have to do with performance irregularities such as you describe?
Well, "diagnosing with a 2,000 mile stethoscope" here, maybe this applies. Maybe not.
So we finally accept and internalize "the fundamentals." We start executing some really clean shots. We may even have strings of 4 or 6 shots where "the process" goes on autopilot.
Then, for some reason (random variance in wobble pattern, not thinking happy thoughts, whatever) the subconscious process results in a wide shot.
Best Case Scenario: we totally ignore it and continue to groove
Worst Case Scenario: we try to figure out "what went wrong" in order to prevent it- which totally screws up the flow of our shot plan and we throguh some **really** horrendous shots up against the target- maybe (even worst, worst case) even luck out and shoot a conscious ten or two which totally takes us outside the flow.
So how to fix? Don't do it! Okay, this maybe has to do with being able to recognize when the "autopilot" shot plan flow has been disturbed and having the courage to put the gun down, press the reset button, and start over.
TRUST THE PROCESS ON EVERY SINGLE SHOT
Even if this isn't exactly what's going on in your performance right now, this is good generic advice anyhow because if you follow it, you will always shoot up to your potential, right?
Steve
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elliott
free pistol score plateauing
Steve S.,
Thank you for your insights. I carefully read all of the posts from Bruce M., Ed Hall, Mark B. et al. I've cogitated, ideated and ratiocinated and I still have a couple of speed bumps in the road to breaking open a 500+ score.
1) When I was at the nationals in 04, I watched the Army shooters and one of them consistently lowered onto the target and then fired after 13 seconds continuously, almost to the second. Looking back over my shooting logs, I find that if I start the trigger squeeze just as the sight picture aligns at the 6 position, the shot breaks into the high 8 nine or ten.
If I try to hold longer than 2-3 seconds, I start to "wander". Sometimes, I can steady up after 5-6 seconds, but then as one writer points out, I tend to consciously force the shot. So, it appears I should probably fire just as the sights focus up aligne with the target and have minimal arc of movement.
2) However, I remember Ian Cartier and I talking with you at the nat'ls in 04 and you told us to be careful of the "sucker settle", that is, the first time the sights, focus and arch of movement are "ideal".
3) Is a long hold better than an apparent overly quick shot? Should one wait a few extra seconds even when the "unconscious" wanted to release the shot earlier?
4) We've had a record streak of 25 days of rain out here in San Francisco and the sun hasn't shone too much. I can't blame bad scores on the sun getting in my eyes so I'm hoping with your insight, input and intuition, I can blame YOU.
Elliott Dushkin
Thank you for your insights. I carefully read all of the posts from Bruce M., Ed Hall, Mark B. et al. I've cogitated, ideated and ratiocinated and I still have a couple of speed bumps in the road to breaking open a 500+ score.
1) When I was at the nationals in 04, I watched the Army shooters and one of them consistently lowered onto the target and then fired after 13 seconds continuously, almost to the second. Looking back over my shooting logs, I find that if I start the trigger squeeze just as the sight picture aligns at the 6 position, the shot breaks into the high 8 nine or ten.
If I try to hold longer than 2-3 seconds, I start to "wander". Sometimes, I can steady up after 5-6 seconds, but then as one writer points out, I tend to consciously force the shot. So, it appears I should probably fire just as the sights focus up aligne with the target and have minimal arc of movement.
2) However, I remember Ian Cartier and I talking with you at the nat'ls in 04 and you told us to be careful of the "sucker settle", that is, the first time the sights, focus and arch of movement are "ideal".
3) Is a long hold better than an apparent overly quick shot? Should one wait a few extra seconds even when the "unconscious" wanted to release the shot earlier?
4) We've had a record streak of 25 days of rain out here in San Francisco and the sun hasn't shone too much. I can't blame bad scores on the sun getting in my eyes so I'm hoping with your insight, input and intuition, I can blame YOU.
Elliott Dushkin
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Ed Hall
Hi Elliott,
I'd like to discuss some of your last post in more detail, if you're willing:
http://www.nygordprecision.com/notes.htm
and especially his Note on "Releasing the Shot:"
http://www.nygordprecision.com/note_1001.htm
If you study your hold (as I recommended above), you should be able to see the relative steadiness come and go with short times where the movements subside before increasing again. Through study, you will probably notice that those steadier times will become much less steady and much shorter as you hold through several iterations. The steadiest is normally the first, but most shooters miss that one because they aren't ready to fire.
Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/
I'd like to discuss some of your last post in more detail, if you're willing:
Is this something that is consistent and can be counted on? If you move the sights to compensate, would the vertical dimension be within the nine ring? If the answers to the above two questions are even just most of the time, I would suggest giving the process a more thorough study. As a point to consider, I routinely break 500 with over 20 shots outside the nine ring. If 40 of your shots can hold to the above dimension, and the rest aren't real wide flyers, you should have no trouble breaking 500.Looking back over my shooting logs, I find that if I start the trigger squeeze just as the sight picture aligns at the 6 position, the shot breaks into the high 8 nine or ten.
What's this all about? The very first null in your hold will be the best it's going to get. All others are larger. I'd like to point you to the late Don Nygord's Notes if you haven't seen them (or at least reviewed them recently):...you told us to be careful of the "sucker settle", that is, the first time the sights, focus and arch of movement are "ideal".
http://www.nygordprecision.com/notes.htm
and especially his Note on "Releasing the Shot:"
http://www.nygordprecision.com/note_1001.htm
If you study your hold (as I recommended above), you should be able to see the relative steadiness come and go with short times where the movements subside before increasing again. Through study, you will probably notice that those steadier times will become much less steady and much shorter as you hold through several iterations. The steadiest is normally the first, but most shooters miss that one because they aren't ready to fire.
Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/
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Steve Swartz
Again, Ed got there first- so let me add that you did remember the part of the discussion about "Studying Your Settle," right?
I'm certain the Army shooter with the 13 second settle sees something different from what you, or Ed, or I see when we settle.
So what does your "settle pattern" look like? Some shooters see an initial unstable pause . . . some see a very stable phase at the beginning, followed by gradual degradation . . . some see a cyclical type of phenomenon . . . some have success with shooting into the initial pause.
All you need is a "reliable window" that you can recognize and execute into perhaps.
What do *you* see?
Steve
I'm certain the Army shooter with the 13 second settle sees something different from what you, or Ed, or I see when we settle.
So what does your "settle pattern" look like? Some shooters see an initial unstable pause . . . some see a very stable phase at the beginning, followed by gradual degradation . . . some see a cyclical type of phenomenon . . . some have success with shooting into the initial pause.
All you need is a "reliable window" that you can recognize and execute into perhaps.
What do *you* see?
Steve
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elliott
free pistol score plateau
Ed and Steve,
Your imput has been invaluable. Several people I shoot with commented about how quickly I seem to fire after raising the pistol, but as you both pointed out in your own separate ways, if the best "settle" comes quickly and you are ready for it, the shot breaks into good scoring position.
Thank you
Elliott
Your imput has been invaluable. Several people I shoot with commented about how quickly I seem to fire after raising the pistol, but as you both pointed out in your own separate ways, if the best "settle" comes quickly and you are ready for it, the shot breaks into good scoring position.
Thank you
Elliott