Quality of new MG-2

[jer]

Older MG-2 had some problems, according this site. Anyone having new MG-2? Does new guns work flawlessly now?

[Mark Briggs]

jer - the very early MG-2's had some quality problems. The most persistant of these seems to be the Bullet Insert Lever. This part is of a much improved and strengthened design in new production guns. Mine is one of the older guns and it functions extremely well. I know one individual with a new-model MG-2 and his has worked perfectly since the first shot. A sample size of one is too small to have much meaning, but at least there is one out there that works well. I'm hoping to have a new one in a month or two and we'll see how well it works.

[Gort]

Jer, I too have an early MG2. Mine is in 10xx serial number range and has a tight chamber, the breech will not close all the way with the very waxy ammunition, causing light fireing pin hits. Once I realized what the problem was and switched to SK standard or Federal 911B ammunition, my MG2 has been very reliable. Then a couple of months ago, the bullet insert lever broke. I E-mailed Match Guns and they sent me the new style bullet insert lever, free of charge. It has been running like a watch since. I hope this is of some help.
Gort

[Scott H.]

I've got an older gun, which did have some problems that I've described in previous posts.

I never put an AimPoint on it, because it seemed like it would ruin the balance, and have used it as a standard pistol. Then, recently, I found myself with a spare Docter sight, and mounted it on the MG-2. The groups I've been shooting with it in my Bullseye league have been amazimg. Better than the test target, in fact.

[Scott H.]

I've got an older gun, which did have some problems that I've described in previous posts.

I never put an AimPoint on it, because it seemed like it would ruin the balance, and have used it as a standard pistol. Then, recently, I found myself with a spare Docter sight, and mounted it on the MG-2. The groups I've been shooting with it in my Bullseye league have been amazimg. Better than the test target, in fact.

[guesting]

I have given up om my MG-2 in the 12xx range, one year old. 3000 rounds. The least reliable gun I have ever owned. It is now retired. A wallhanger.
I will trade it off at a 50% discount. I am living in a country full of "regulations", so an "End-user sertificate" is required. So is export license and a lot of other papers, I recon.
Well, I can use the MG-2 as a singel shot pistol. But loading of single rounds with that weird magazine is combersome.... and the double cycling of the slide...

[Mark Briggs]

Guesting - what do you mean by "double cycling of the slide"? Do you mean that it sometimes fires two shots when you pull the trigger only once?

If so, this is fixed by adjusting the trigger. Add more weight on the 2nd stage - make it 400 or 500 grams and you'll never see this problem again. When I first received my MG-2 it would double-fire and even triple-fire regularly. I thought the gun was junk. Then I spent about an hour adjusting the trigger (it had only about 50 grams on the second stage) and have never had a problem since.

If the problem persists, look at the trigger overtravel adjustment - you may need to add a very small amount of overtravel in order to allow the sear to re-engage after the first shot. And lastly, you may need to increase the sear engagement a little bit to prevent the hammer from following the slide forward on the second shot.

The MG-2 trigger is adjustable in so many ways that it is possible to adjust it to the point where the pistol does not function properly. It looks very much like that's what may be wrong with your pistol. Don't just hang it on the wall, whatever you do. If you still can't get it to work, e-mail the factory and they will help you.

[guesting]

Mark, you have posted a lot of informative post during your career at TargetTalk.
But this time you are slightly off.
The follower, (cradle) is EXPECTED to acccept a round from the magazine, given the cradle is in the lower position.
Sometimes it will, sometimes it will not. Racking the slide twice will bring a round to the chamber, though.
The newer guns are better in this regard, i am informed, the cradle is now reconstructed slightly.
No, I do not have faith in (my) MG-2.

[guesting]

Forgot that, Mark:

No, I am not a beginner. Own, (and know how to adjust triggers of) quite some guns. Have participated in international competitions over the years.
Thank you for your sugestions regarding triggger adjustment, someone might lern from that. But your remedies are no for the MG-2 problems, however.
The MG-2 is a most stubborn gun! Tried to clear a jam from a MG-2? You have, yes? Thought so....

Thanks, anyway, Mark.

[Tycho]

My 1st series MG2 works flawlessly, it's certainly the most reliable pistol of Cesare's design ever... I just remembered that among the updates I got were new magazines that didn't fit as tight against the cradle as the first ones. Could that be the problem of yours?

[David Levene]

My 1st series MG2 works flawlessly, it's certainly the most reliable pistol of Cesare's design ever... I just remembered that among the updates I got ...............

As just an observer on this thread, does "among the updates" mean that yours is no longer a standard 1st series MG2.

[Mark Briggs]

Guesting - I understand what must be a very frustrating experience for you. It would appear that you've perhaps hit on a couple of points that are worthy of further investigation. Why not change the cradle, bullet insert lever and magazines? All of these have been updated in the newer pistols. Rather than scrap an expensive pistol these steps might just get your gun into working order.

And as for jams, I've had very few so haven't much experience on the topic. I understand the point you make, though, and I always have a small jacknife on hand to assist should a jam occur. Of course I've had to use that same jacknife on a number of other pistols too, including some of the most venerated pistols discussed on this board.

I'm afraid that when it comes to standard pistols there are none that are perfect. Some work perfectly, then crack as they age. Some work poorly and never get a chance to age. And some are built like a Russian tank, function well and never break, but weigh a ton and require lots of maintenance to keep functioning. I truly hope you are lucky enough to find a pistol that works well for you!

[Gort]

Gentelman, A few observations, the MG2 requires a differant operational format to avoid a double feed jam. If a round fails to fire, for any reason, the only to clear the action is as follows.

1) Do not rack the slide.
2) Remove the magazine.
3) With muzzle pointed downward, allow the lose round, staged for the carrier, to slide out.
4) Now the slide may be racked to clear the misfire.

The MG2 is a different breed and requires a different operational technique. It may be fussy as to it's ammunition likes, but its ergonomics are unique and advanced, but it is a pistol not suited for everyone. As much as I like my MG2, their is still plenty of room in my range bag for my Pardini SP New.

Gort

[Tycho]

Yes, literally taken my MG2 is not an original 1st series gun anymore. It has a serial in the first 40, so was basically a beta version. The cradle is still original, but the mags have been replaced and the insertion lever is new. Cesare had come to Switzerland some months after we got the first pistols, and he did some rework on the upper receiver of all of them, but don't ask me what exactly. At least I'm sure that it wasn't completely replaced, as it had the same scratches afterwards as before :-) As far as I know my MG2 now has the standard of a serial number in the 15xx range. And everything I've heard about the MG2 suggests that every one can be made to function well, although it may take some work on some of them. I do have to say that I'm used to tricky pistols though, I've shot the old RFP for some years, so a wandering trigger part that has to put back in place every few 100 shots or a frontsight screw that comes loose every few months is not something that bothers me. And sometimes people just screw around too much with it and make dumb mistakes, like a grip adjustment that doesn't let enough room for the slide, or they try to take out the trigger stop, which gives you an instant machine gun and can be tricky to readjust. It's certainly not a pistol for people with a 208S - mentality - "put something in the mag that goes bang and clean every ten years" just won't do. And for those malfunctions - ever shot a CM102E? Now there's something that needs four hands...

[jer]

I understud magazine of MG-2 is made of carbonfiber. Is that material a potential problem? How many magazines comes with gun?

[Guest]

I was one of those who received the first of the MG2's imported by Don Nygord [RIP]. I also got so fed up with it's malfunctions to the point that Morini (Match Guns) gave instructions to replace the pistol and Nygord offered me a refund, which I took. I really regretted that as the gun shot quite well and offered an array of adjustments heretofore not assembled on one gun. I studied the mechanism of the gun, whilst in my possession and frankly found it to be quite comlicated in comparison to my Pardini. The blockages and stoppages were attributed to the magazine and the "carriage assembly" for the ammo. It was an alibi gun from the beginning and required me to remove the barrel to clear these monstrous jams. The loading operation was an iffy process with strings of live ammo flying down range and multiple efforts needed to load the magazine and charge the first round into the chamber. I am quite happy that many of you guys are enjoying this gun as I thought it was a keeper for Standard Pistol, but didn't have the luck you guys are experiencing. When I returned the gun to Nygord he called and told me that he would either return it or provide a new gun since he was shooting it in a Bullseye league and it was perfect---maybe my schhizophrenia was just beginning to assert itself---but we are OK since then-----Good Shooting.......

[Guest]

...Why not change the cradle, bullet insert lever and magazines? All of these have been updated in the newer pistols. .

I'm afraid that when it comes to standard pistols there are none that are perfect.

The bullet insert lever broke at an early stage. I have got the newer breed of BIL installed.
No, I have not changed the magazines.
The importer offered me a new cradle free, if I bought the new "rapid-fire" rebuild set. Which unfortunately DEMANDS REMOVING SOME 6 MM OF METAL FROM THE FRAME!!! (to make the frame accept the rubber buffer which is mandatory for deccelerating the lighter rapid-fire slide at the rearward end of recoil stroke) Hallelooya! I will probably have to alter the frame myself.

No perfect standard pistol? The new Walther is as close as it gets. Experiences shooters have torturetested this pistol for months. It seem impossible to make the new Walther malfunction! It has been fired upside down, submerged in mud. It still feeds and fires flawlessly.

[Mark Briggs]

The Walther SSP may be a near-perfect standard pistol, but it wasn't in the initial stages. At the last Munich WC the Walther reps couldn't figure out how to adjust the trigger weights (1st & 2nd stages). That doesn't look very good to a potential customer. And even if the pistol functions perfectly, it still doesn't offer any adjustability of grip angle. And it will still be a year late in making it to market. With that having been said, I'd rather that Walther came late but with a fully functioning pistol than coming early with one that's not reliable. It will be hard for the SSP to live up to the expectations set in the marketplace by the venerable GSP...

[Mike T.]

Guest wrote: "...the new Walther ... has been fired upside down, submerged in mud..."

Are we talking about the SSP or a combat pistol?

Additionally, months of test may not be enough. My .22 GSP developed a cracked bolt housing after a few years of use. This was a common problem of the mid-70s model. Sure, in later versions, Walther modified the machining to avoid the stress-raiser that led to the fatigue failure, but they wouldn't replace my bolt housing under warranty. I had to buy a new one at full price.

[guesting]

Guest wrote: "...the new Walther ... has been fired upside down, submerged in mud..."

Are we talking about the SSP or a combat pistol?

Additionally, months of test may not be enough. My .22 GSP developed a cracked bolt housing after a few years of use.

Yes, the early Walther GSP developed craks near the auto-stay-open after-last-shot device. This was removed, and cracked GSP (.22) frames re now very scarse.

We are talking about teh Walther SSP. (No combat pistol in .22 caliber, I think?).

The grip-angle of the SSP is now adjustable.
The trigger unit is ingenious. Easy change from 1000 grams to 3 pounds.
But the sight-adjustment screws cannot be adjusted by fingers. Not good. A Morini decease.

From the few prototypes that have reached the hands of experienced hooters, the SSP is gaining a reputation for reliability, fast.