Hello virtual coaches
I need advice on a recent problem that has occurred with my air pistol sight picture. The problem is simply that I cannot get the front sight in the middle of the back sights, when I raise the pistol the front sight is on the left rather than in the middle.
The background is this, I have very small hands and the National coach took one look at my standard Morini grip and told me to get a custom grip pronto. The custom grip that was made just did not feel right in my hand (it forced my hand into an uncomfortable angle) so I exchanged my standard small Morini grip for an XS ladies Morini grip. The XS felt exactly the same as my original small grip although I was assured it was smaller.
I never had this sight picture problem until recently, I can’t really blame the new grip as I had three grips (custom, Sm Morini, XS Morini) for a period and tried them all and it was happening with all three. Although I shot with my standard Morini grip for over 12 months with no problem, the problem started a while after the swapping of grips.
I have tried adjusting the screw to point the barrel to the right and this still does not help. I have tried gripping the pistol every which way I can , I have tried standing everyway from front-on to side-on with no luck.
The only solution I can think of (short of a hand transplant) is to open my left back sight blade out to the left but you can’t adjust the back sight blades individually on the LP10 (the right one moves equally when you adjust the left one.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Help with sight picture
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Jim Harrison
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:32 am
- Location: Britain and France
Hello Rene,
A quick test for the pointability of grips is the following:
1. Pick up and grip the pistol as normal.
2. Without changing your grip, bend your elbow and bring it down, so you can look down on the pistol from above.
3. Look at the top of your wrist: you will see two tendons which have risen to take the weight of the gun.
4. The sight/barrel line should pass between these two tendons, hopefully somewhere in the middle.
If your grips don't pass this test, there is definitely a problem with them.
A quick test for the pointability of grips is the following:
1. Pick up and grip the pistol as normal.
2. Without changing your grip, bend your elbow and bring it down, so you can look down on the pistol from above.
3. Look at the top of your wrist: you will see two tendons which have risen to take the weight of the gun.
4. The sight/barrel line should pass between these two tendons, hopefully somewhere in the middle.
If your grips don't pass this test, there is definitely a problem with them.
Best Wishes,
Jim Harrison.
Jim Harrison.
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Steve Swartz
Steve:
I am experiencing the same problem. My front sight "drift's" to the left in the rear sight.
I am right eye dominant and right handed.
I have also tried various stands, angles of barrel and used a little grip paste inside the grip. Trying to "force" my front sight to the right.
All of these attempts are succesfull at first, but after a few weeks, I'm going left again....
So now what?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
KB
I am experiencing the same problem. My front sight "drift's" to the left in the rear sight.
I am right eye dominant and right handed.
I have also tried various stands, angles of barrel and used a little grip paste inside the grip. Trying to "force" my front sight to the right.
All of these attempts are succesfull at first, but after a few weeks, I'm going left again....
So now what?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
KB
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Fred
a test
Sometimes lateral movement/displacement of the front sight can be caused by slight alterations in hand grip pressure. You can test for this by holding the gun in your normal shooting stance, and watching the front sight for any lateral movement as you intentionally tighten and loosen your grip.
If lateral movement occurs in this test, it often is caused by changing hand pressure on the grip under the first segments of your fingers (closest to your palm). Removing some wood from these areas can allow any pressure changes in the fingers to be transmitted to the front of the grip (under the second segments of your fingers). Then, no matter what minute changes in grip pressure you make, the force is transmitted straight back, and no longer pushes the front of the gun towards the left.
A palm swell that is a little too thick for your hand can cause the same thing, and the thickness of the palm swell needs to be balanced with the thickness of the areas under your first finger segments.
Conversely, if the grip is too small for your finger length, then firm finger pressure will pull the front sight to the right, and if you slightly relax your grip, the front will drift to the left. In either case, to avoid lateral movement, you need to be able to apply the gripping force straight back, no matter what small variations occur in that force.
Ideally, the hand pressure on the grip would be absolutely uniform, and grip fit wouldn't matter so much. Until then,
HTH,
FredB
If lateral movement occurs in this test, it often is caused by changing hand pressure on the grip under the first segments of your fingers (closest to your palm). Removing some wood from these areas can allow any pressure changes in the fingers to be transmitted to the front of the grip (under the second segments of your fingers). Then, no matter what minute changes in grip pressure you make, the force is transmitted straight back, and no longer pushes the front of the gun towards the left.
A palm swell that is a little too thick for your hand can cause the same thing, and the thickness of the palm swell needs to be balanced with the thickness of the areas under your first finger segments.
Conversely, if the grip is too small for your finger length, then firm finger pressure will pull the front sight to the right, and if you slightly relax your grip, the front will drift to the left. In either case, to avoid lateral movement, you need to be able to apply the gripping force straight back, no matter what small variations occur in that force.
Ideally, the hand pressure on the grip would be absolutely uniform, and grip fit wouldn't matter so much. Until then,
HTH,
FredB
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Rene
Hi Folks
Thank you for responding.
I tested the pointability of the grip and the sight/barrel line does pass between the two tendons - thanks Jim this is a good test.
I have also taken some wood off the grip to ensure the grip pressure is straight back and this has helped with movement. I think the palm swell may be too thick for my hand but I'll wait and see how I go with the bit of wood that I have already taken off before I go at it again. I still need to work on uniform grip pressure - I haven't mastered this yet!. Thanks Fred
I have always been a right eye/right handed shooter but I thought I'd do a few eye dominance tests in response to Steve's question. To my surprise my left eye is now dominant, how is this possible?. I had an eye test about 3 months ago and my vision is better than 20/20 in both eyes so I had a lens made up to blur the target as I could see it clearly. Could this lens on my right eye somehow have made my left eye dominant?.
Thank you for responding.
I tested the pointability of the grip and the sight/barrel line does pass between the two tendons - thanks Jim this is a good test.
I have also taken some wood off the grip to ensure the grip pressure is straight back and this has helped with movement. I think the palm swell may be too thick for my hand but I'll wait and see how I go with the bit of wood that I have already taken off before I go at it again. I still need to work on uniform grip pressure - I haven't mastered this yet!. Thanks Fred
I have always been a right eye/right handed shooter but I thought I'd do a few eye dominance tests in response to Steve's question. To my surprise my left eye is now dominant, how is this possible?. I had an eye test about 3 months ago and my vision is better than 20/20 in both eyes so I had a lens made up to blur the target as I could see it clearly. Could this lens on my right eye somehow have made my left eye dominant?.
push out
Hi Rene,
While all these options may help I think it may be you are not locking your wrist. If you are right handed this will cause the gun to drift left with an unlocked wrist or weak grip pressure.
This may have come about by having the XS grip being too tight and you inadvertently letting the grip hold you and not you holding it.
I think if you lossen the shelf and when you grip the gun and grip it in a front to back movement; trying to bring the finger grooves to the heel of your hand in a direct line with the bore. ie no finger tips or thumbs.
The second thing to lock your wrist is to push your arm out to the target. Do this from the shoulder; it will tighten your forearm flexors and extensors and thus lock the wrist.
Finally if you only concentrate on the front sight you will have less movement of the sight. If you half look at the target you start to align your aim area with the gun but actually forget about maintaining sight alignment.
Maybe this will help.
Magyar
While all these options may help I think it may be you are not locking your wrist. If you are right handed this will cause the gun to drift left with an unlocked wrist or weak grip pressure.
This may have come about by having the XS grip being too tight and you inadvertently letting the grip hold you and not you holding it.
I think if you lossen the shelf and when you grip the gun and grip it in a front to back movement; trying to bring the finger grooves to the heel of your hand in a direct line with the bore. ie no finger tips or thumbs.
The second thing to lock your wrist is to push your arm out to the target. Do this from the shoulder; it will tighten your forearm flexors and extensors and thus lock the wrist.
Finally if you only concentrate on the front sight you will have less movement of the sight. If you half look at the target you start to align your aim area with the gun but actually forget about maintaining sight alignment.
Maybe this will help.
Magyar
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Steve Swartz
Rene:
Are you blocking your non-shooting eye (the left one) at all times when handling the pistol? The two issues (dominance and grip) may or not be even related to each other, let alone the difficulties you are having "aligning the sights."
Let's keep the two issues separate for now. As long as you are always blocking your left eye, all of the above advice about adjusting your grip is fine- as long as you are establishing natural point of aim with your stance, consistently, every single time.
Continuing to assume left eye blocked, you have several variables that will affect how the sights line up when you raise the pistol:
- How the pistol is rotated in your hand
- How your hand is aligned with your shoulder
- How your ashoulder is aligned with your right eye
- How your shoulder is aligned with your torso
- etc.
This is a complicated puzzle to figure out from thousands of miles away- but here is a diagnostic test.
- address a blank wall about the same way you would address the target
- close your eyes
- rotate your torso around, wave your arms around to "reset" your kinesthetic sense
- keeping eyes closed, simulate your shot process with your empty hand (as if you were holding the pistol)
Now open your eyes- are you looking at your hand? Where is your hand pointed? How is your hand aligned to your eye vs. the wall? adjust your stance and repeat the test until when you open your eyes, your hand is pointed naturally at the wall and your eye is sighting along hte back of your hand, looking through hte "V" notch between your thumb and back of your hand.
You must establish the "stance" issue with respect to NPA before you go crazy witht eh putty/dremel tool. This seems to be overlooked (like the cross-dominance issue) but needs to be ruled out first.
If you are forcing your point of aim over to the right or the left, this will make aligning the sights much more difficult.
When you find your NPA, at what angle are you facing the target? Do you have a more open (looking perpendicular to target) or closed (facing target) stance?
Another experiment, to determine teh relationship between grip and stance, goes like this: pick up the pistol and grip it the way you normally would. Close your eyes, raie pistol straight out to your side, tyurn head in that direction, and open your eyes. Note the alignment of hte sights. Close your eyes and repeat, pointing in different directions from straight ahead of you 90 degrees around toi out to your side.
You should see the "natural" alignment of the sights (seen immediately upon opening your eyes) rotate as the direction of point vs. torso/head rotates.
What you may need to do is strike a compromise between your "point at the target" NPA and your "Sights are aligned" NPA. They might be in two different places.
The final step- only performed after doing all this experimentation- is to rotate the grip in your hand. Oh By The Way, it is much more important (grip-wise) that your grip is consistent with Absolutely Perfect Every Single Time Trigger Control and *not* achieving the Sights Are Aligned grip.
Worst case scenario: your pointing stance is way off from your aligning sights stance, and you trigger grip doesn't line up with either one!
Steve Swartz
Are you blocking your non-shooting eye (the left one) at all times when handling the pistol? The two issues (dominance and grip) may or not be even related to each other, let alone the difficulties you are having "aligning the sights."
Let's keep the two issues separate for now. As long as you are always blocking your left eye, all of the above advice about adjusting your grip is fine- as long as you are establishing natural point of aim with your stance, consistently, every single time.
Continuing to assume left eye blocked, you have several variables that will affect how the sights line up when you raise the pistol:
- How the pistol is rotated in your hand
- How your hand is aligned with your shoulder
- How your ashoulder is aligned with your right eye
- How your shoulder is aligned with your torso
- etc.
This is a complicated puzzle to figure out from thousands of miles away- but here is a diagnostic test.
- address a blank wall about the same way you would address the target
- close your eyes
- rotate your torso around, wave your arms around to "reset" your kinesthetic sense
- keeping eyes closed, simulate your shot process with your empty hand (as if you were holding the pistol)
Now open your eyes- are you looking at your hand? Where is your hand pointed? How is your hand aligned to your eye vs. the wall? adjust your stance and repeat the test until when you open your eyes, your hand is pointed naturally at the wall and your eye is sighting along hte back of your hand, looking through hte "V" notch between your thumb and back of your hand.
You must establish the "stance" issue with respect to NPA before you go crazy witht eh putty/dremel tool. This seems to be overlooked (like the cross-dominance issue) but needs to be ruled out first.
If you are forcing your point of aim over to the right or the left, this will make aligning the sights much more difficult.
When you find your NPA, at what angle are you facing the target? Do you have a more open (looking perpendicular to target) or closed (facing target) stance?
Another experiment, to determine teh relationship between grip and stance, goes like this: pick up the pistol and grip it the way you normally would. Close your eyes, raie pistol straight out to your side, tyurn head in that direction, and open your eyes. Note the alignment of hte sights. Close your eyes and repeat, pointing in different directions from straight ahead of you 90 degrees around toi out to your side.
You should see the "natural" alignment of the sights (seen immediately upon opening your eyes) rotate as the direction of point vs. torso/head rotates.
What you may need to do is strike a compromise between your "point at the target" NPA and your "Sights are aligned" NPA. They might be in two different places.
The final step- only performed after doing all this experimentation- is to rotate the grip in your hand. Oh By The Way, it is much more important (grip-wise) that your grip is consistent with Absolutely Perfect Every Single Time Trigger Control and *not* achieving the Sights Are Aligned grip.
Worst case scenario: your pointing stance is way off from your aligning sights stance, and you trigger grip doesn't line up with either one!
Steve Swartz