As another competition season approaches, I find my self doing some more serious thinking about the shot process (i.e. why certain elements of my technique are/aren't working). I am curious about what triggering technique people are using and why they feel it's working for them. To that end, I have a few questions for the slow-fire (air pistol and free pistol) shooters out there.
1. Is your decision to initiate the triggering process (call it squeezing, or whatever your preferred term may be) a conscious one, or have you managed to turn this part of the shot process over to the subconscious?
2. If you are consciously initiating the triggering process, at what point in the shot process do you begin applying pressure to the trigger? When entering the aiming area? Immediately after arriving in the aiming area? Once in the aiming area and the sight picture "looks good"? At some other point in the process?
3. Why do you feel that your particular approach works best for you?
4. Is the process any different for you between air pistol and free pistol?
I appreciate any information you can provide - thanks for your help on this.
Best Regards,
Steve
Questions about the shot process
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Steve Swartz
Hey Steve:
I'm not sure I can answer your questions "independently;" it's all kind of one thing in my mind. And I'm not sure i can separate "triggering" from "the shot process" (see Ed Hall's post in different thread). Here's how my (very abbreviated for space) shot process works; skipping ahead to the point where the gun is being lowered:
- Visualize perfect alignment and aim with eyes closed as gun comes down into NPA
- Take settling breath and open eyes as sights rise above target
- Concentrate on maintaining perfect alignment and allow aligned sights to settle or "sag" into the aiming area as breath is released
- Focus on alignment
- Recognize settle and take up first stage
- Allow the release of the shot while monitoring for abort
- Focus on maintaining perfect alignment as shot is released
- Recover
Hope That Helps. I think you are trying to analyze what happens during " . . . allow the release of the shot while monitoring for abort . . . " I think I can explain it best this way. I train specifically so that the smooth and rapid application of trigger pressure is produced without effort or conscious thought. It's kind like hearing/sensing a void or "tone" in my head while hte perfectly aligned sights sway in the aiming area.
I need to get a bumper sticker made that says "Shot Happens."
Note also that " . . . monitor for abort . . . " means that if EITHER of the two conditions a) time has passed OR b) thoughts enter my head, the shot is IMMEDIATELY aborted, no quesitons asked.
Steve Swartz
I'm not sure I can answer your questions "independently;" it's all kind of one thing in my mind. And I'm not sure i can separate "triggering" from "the shot process" (see Ed Hall's post in different thread). Here's how my (very abbreviated for space) shot process works; skipping ahead to the point where the gun is being lowered:
- Visualize perfect alignment and aim with eyes closed as gun comes down into NPA
- Take settling breath and open eyes as sights rise above target
- Concentrate on maintaining perfect alignment and allow aligned sights to settle or "sag" into the aiming area as breath is released
- Focus on alignment
- Recognize settle and take up first stage
- Allow the release of the shot while monitoring for abort
- Focus on maintaining perfect alignment as shot is released
- Recover
Hope That Helps. I think you are trying to analyze what happens during " . . . allow the release of the shot while monitoring for abort . . . " I think I can explain it best this way. I train specifically so that the smooth and rapid application of trigger pressure is produced without effort or conscious thought. It's kind like hearing/sensing a void or "tone" in my head while hte perfectly aligned sights sway in the aiming area.
I need to get a bumper sticker made that says "Shot Happens."
Note also that " . . . monitor for abort . . . " means that if EITHER of the two conditions a) time has passed OR b) thoughts enter my head, the shot is IMMEDIATELY aborted, no quesitons asked.
Steve Swartz
The messages recently posted by Steve Swartz, Ed Hall, and Rob Stubbs that discuss conceptual training issues about the shot process are the type I eagerly anticipate finding when I log on to the web site. I don't think that these topics can be discussed often enough and they seem to always relate to issues I am constantly trying to clarify in my own thinking and practice.
Trying to implement a "smooth and rapid application of trigger pressure" is something I have been working on specifically the last several weeks in dryfire drills and shooting. The less I think about aiming, the better I shoot. I can accomplish this in dryfire, but experience many inconsistencies when shooting as I start to think about where the shot may be going. The pattern I notice is that I start out doing well with this, but it degrades after 20 shots or so as I want to maintain the same level of success. I look at my shots after each 5 when I shoot Bullseye and individually with Air Pistol. I think it may help if I don't look at all and try to make shooting just another form of advanced dryfire where I don't consider scores as an outcome, just the shot process as a procedural goal.
The other trigger management issue I have been considering is follow-through. For me, that means enough trigger travel past the shot breaking as I tend to want to quit on it too suddenly. This is especially noticeable for me in Air Pistol as there is no recoil to mask the error.
Dennis Lindenbaum
Marietta, Ga.
Trying to implement a "smooth and rapid application of trigger pressure" is something I have been working on specifically the last several weeks in dryfire drills and shooting. The less I think about aiming, the better I shoot. I can accomplish this in dryfire, but experience many inconsistencies when shooting as I start to think about where the shot may be going. The pattern I notice is that I start out doing well with this, but it degrades after 20 shots or so as I want to maintain the same level of success. I look at my shots after each 5 when I shoot Bullseye and individually with Air Pistol. I think it may help if I don't look at all and try to make shooting just another form of advanced dryfire where I don't consider scores as an outcome, just the shot process as a procedural goal.
The other trigger management issue I have been considering is follow-through. For me, that means enough trigger travel past the shot breaking as I tend to want to quit on it too suddenly. This is especially noticeable for me in Air Pistol as there is no recoil to mask the error.
Dennis Lindenbaum
Marietta, Ga.
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Benonymous
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:06 pm
Trigger technique
I did my weekly shoot last night and tried a couple of different approaches to trigger activation.
First I tried my old technique of taking up the first stage as I lowered the gun into the aiming area. I had reasonable success with this.
Next I did as the Club Prez suggested and left the trigger alone until I had the sights in the aiming area. Then I took up the first stage as I concerntrated on my sight picture then increased the pressure through to release with a follow through that presses the trigger back fully for a second or so. Much better results with this method.
Lastly I tried the complete technique as suggested by the Prez. Left the trigger alone aside from having my finger pad resting on the trigger, lowered the gun, settled, then squeezed in one continuous motion to follow through. My results were less impressive than with the previous method.
As I'm a mere beginner in Olympic Pistol I found this to be a worthwhile excersise. I also did a run of dry-fires with all the above methods. I only shot around six, front on, cards last night the remaining time was taken up with shooting the backs of cards and dry firing. I hope you find something of use in my contribution :-)
First I tried my old technique of taking up the first stage as I lowered the gun into the aiming area. I had reasonable success with this.
Next I did as the Club Prez suggested and left the trigger alone until I had the sights in the aiming area. Then I took up the first stage as I concerntrated on my sight picture then increased the pressure through to release with a follow through that presses the trigger back fully for a second or so. Much better results with this method.
Lastly I tried the complete technique as suggested by the Prez. Left the trigger alone aside from having my finger pad resting on the trigger, lowered the gun, settled, then squeezed in one continuous motion to follow through. My results were less impressive than with the previous method.
As I'm a mere beginner in Olympic Pistol I found this to be a worthwhile excersise. I also did a run of dry-fires with all the above methods. I only shot around six, front on, cards last night the remaining time was taken up with shooting the backs of cards and dry firing. I hope you find something of use in my contribution :-)
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Petri Federley
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:46 am
- Location: Finland
Shot process
Hi!
I´m basically agreeing with the thoughts Steve has presented, but as I´ve learned happening with myself, it is sometimes useful to say the same thing in several different ways so that one of the ways might "hit" you.
1. Is your decision to initiate the triggering process (call it squeezing, or whatever your preferred term may be) a conscious one, or have you managed to turn this part of the shot process over to the subconscious?
My idea: the decision to initiate is a conscious one, but the actual process is not. For the shot to happen you need to make sure that you´re on the road that way. I have an idea in my mind about a timer actioned device that will go off after certain amount of time. You set the timer functioning, which you can train for example by shooting airpistol and counting down from 5 to 0 and just trusting that the sights will be well enough aligned by the time you get to 0 and that the shot WILL go off at that time. The same idea must be used with great rigour in rapid fire pistol; the gun will go off in 1,3s whether it is pointing in the right place or not( 4second series). Trust is the issue. Be this not the case, you have not consciously initiated the shot process, you spot a decent sight alignment and you abruptly begin a hasty process->you get a ten or an eight.
2. If you are consciously initiating the triggering process, at what point in the shot process do you begin applying pressure to the trigger? When entering the aiming area? Immediately after arriving in the aiming area? Once in the aiming area and the sight picture "looks good"? At some other point in the process?
My idea: I think I kind of went there in part 1. But to make myself clear, the triggering process is initiated when you raise your pistol from the table and start building your posture and prepare for lifting the pistol. The hole shot process at best is comparable to martial arts. You have an optimized preset pattern including breathing, empty mind, posture that begin from the moment you lift the pistol from the table and end when the pistol hits the table again. And then you go back to the begin and do it again.
3. Why do you feel that your particular approach works best for you?
My idea: Shooting mostly rapid fire pistol, I´ve learned that the triggering process is initiated well before even lifting the gun so I try to make use of the idea in air- and freepistol also. Seems to work for me. Why? I think that if you trust your body and unconscious mind to work the triggering process, it is possible to get better results constantly. Because you never can match the accuracy and consistency of the previous with conscious decisions. "When you shoot a perfect ten, do you know it with your conscious mind or does the knowledge of the perfect shot rise from deep within your body as a feeling and not as a thought?"
4. Is the process any different for you between air pistol and free pistol?
My idea: for me, trusting my body to work the trigger is even more important in free pistol. I can never match the accuracy of it with my conscious actions. The difference between ten and seven in freepistol is so minor, that only by allowing your body and unconscious mind you can constantly get good shots. If you try to control the sight alignment for example you will always be late and overcorrecting.
As I said, basically the same stuff here that Steve was talking about, but said in a different manner.... not very briefly I´m afraid ;-)
I´m basically agreeing with the thoughts Steve has presented, but as I´ve learned happening with myself, it is sometimes useful to say the same thing in several different ways so that one of the ways might "hit" you.
1. Is your decision to initiate the triggering process (call it squeezing, or whatever your preferred term may be) a conscious one, or have you managed to turn this part of the shot process over to the subconscious?
My idea: the decision to initiate is a conscious one, but the actual process is not. For the shot to happen you need to make sure that you´re on the road that way. I have an idea in my mind about a timer actioned device that will go off after certain amount of time. You set the timer functioning, which you can train for example by shooting airpistol and counting down from 5 to 0 and just trusting that the sights will be well enough aligned by the time you get to 0 and that the shot WILL go off at that time. The same idea must be used with great rigour in rapid fire pistol; the gun will go off in 1,3s whether it is pointing in the right place or not( 4second series). Trust is the issue. Be this not the case, you have not consciously initiated the shot process, you spot a decent sight alignment and you abruptly begin a hasty process->you get a ten or an eight.
2. If you are consciously initiating the triggering process, at what point in the shot process do you begin applying pressure to the trigger? When entering the aiming area? Immediately after arriving in the aiming area? Once in the aiming area and the sight picture "looks good"? At some other point in the process?
My idea: I think I kind of went there in part 1. But to make myself clear, the triggering process is initiated when you raise your pistol from the table and start building your posture and prepare for lifting the pistol. The hole shot process at best is comparable to martial arts. You have an optimized preset pattern including breathing, empty mind, posture that begin from the moment you lift the pistol from the table and end when the pistol hits the table again. And then you go back to the begin and do it again.
3. Why do you feel that your particular approach works best for you?
My idea: Shooting mostly rapid fire pistol, I´ve learned that the triggering process is initiated well before even lifting the gun so I try to make use of the idea in air- and freepistol also. Seems to work for me. Why? I think that if you trust your body and unconscious mind to work the triggering process, it is possible to get better results constantly. Because you never can match the accuracy and consistency of the previous with conscious decisions. "When you shoot a perfect ten, do you know it with your conscious mind or does the knowledge of the perfect shot rise from deep within your body as a feeling and not as a thought?"
4. Is the process any different for you between air pistol and free pistol?
My idea: for me, trusting my body to work the trigger is even more important in free pistol. I can never match the accuracy of it with my conscious actions. The difference between ten and seven in freepistol is so minor, that only by allowing your body and unconscious mind you can constantly get good shots. If you try to control the sight alignment for example you will always be late and overcorrecting.
As I said, basically the same stuff here that Steve was talking about, but said in a different manner.... not very briefly I´m afraid ;-)
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Patrick Haynes
Triggering
Hi Steve.
I think that you will go far with the comments posted so far. Here's my 2 cents.
When working with athletes on their shot plan, I ask them about their point of initiation. When do they decide (consciously) that they are going to shoot. For me, it is when I am essentially at the international ready position. I've got the NPA worked out. I feel steady. My head is in the right position and my wrist and elbow are set. Ideally, from that point on, I'm working on auto-pilot. Reality is that I go through the raise, lower into my area of aim and then decide to apply pressure or abort.
With regards to conscious or subconscious, there is no single answer as to which is better. (Yes, I am putting on my flame retardant suit as we speak, errrr, type.) It depends upon your level of experience and expertise.
I've been reading some material on motor skill learning and performance. When you start off, EVERYTHING is conscious. Telling someone who does not have a clear mental representation of how to perform an act subconsciously is futile. They can't do it. As their mental image develops and their experience/expertise grows, their reliance on conscious direction is reduced. The athlete can "see" what he/she should be doing and can probably tell you how it feels, without having to rely upon a verbal/written script for a performance.
The real question is "At what point should the athlete be switching from conscious delivery to subconscious performance?" Here are some ranks which are suggested by Noptel, according to the research that they have performed:
Amateur:
AP < 540; FP < 510
Club:
AP 541 - 569; FP 511 - 539
National/International:
AP 570+; FP 540+
My expectations would be that when the athlete is at the national level or better, his or her trigger would be subconscious. Focus is tight on the sights and essentially, the triggering process is automatic.
From Beginner to Amateur levels, the process is predominantly conscious because they are learning, especially when they are under 510/480 (AP/FP) marks.
It isn't an issue of consciously trying to release the trigger subconsciously (similar to "Don't think about pink elephants"), which in turn leads to a superior performance. I believe as your mental images develop, as a result of constant conscious attention to the details of your performance, you develop the ability to "let go" and perform unconsciously.
Start with the conscious and you will develop the subconscious. In practice, make a conscious shot plan, develop it and tune it for what works best for you. Then follow it fanatically, striving for excellence and never settling for mediocrity. If you do this often (consistent and sustainable training), it will become part of you, and you will start to perform subconsciously.
As for the when/why of triggering, I can pass some thoughts along. It usually boils down to what works for you. Aside from blantantly bad ideas ("In the split second that your sights seem to appear roughly on the target, tense every muscle in your shoulder, arm, and hand while simultaneously hitting that trigger with everything that you've got!"), ever technique has advantages and disadvantages, depending on the individual. The key is to find what works for you.
BTW: did you get the Rika setup okay?
Patrick
I think that you will go far with the comments posted so far. Here's my 2 cents.
When working with athletes on their shot plan, I ask them about their point of initiation. When do they decide (consciously) that they are going to shoot. For me, it is when I am essentially at the international ready position. I've got the NPA worked out. I feel steady. My head is in the right position and my wrist and elbow are set. Ideally, from that point on, I'm working on auto-pilot. Reality is that I go through the raise, lower into my area of aim and then decide to apply pressure or abort.
With regards to conscious or subconscious, there is no single answer as to which is better. (Yes, I am putting on my flame retardant suit as we speak, errrr, type.) It depends upon your level of experience and expertise.
I've been reading some material on motor skill learning and performance. When you start off, EVERYTHING is conscious. Telling someone who does not have a clear mental representation of how to perform an act subconsciously is futile. They can't do it. As their mental image develops and their experience/expertise grows, their reliance on conscious direction is reduced. The athlete can "see" what he/she should be doing and can probably tell you how it feels, without having to rely upon a verbal/written script for a performance.
The real question is "At what point should the athlete be switching from conscious delivery to subconscious performance?" Here are some ranks which are suggested by Noptel, according to the research that they have performed:
Amateur:
AP < 540; FP < 510
Club:
AP 541 - 569; FP 511 - 539
National/International:
AP 570+; FP 540+
My expectations would be that when the athlete is at the national level or better, his or her trigger would be subconscious. Focus is tight on the sights and essentially, the triggering process is automatic.
From Beginner to Amateur levels, the process is predominantly conscious because they are learning, especially when they are under 510/480 (AP/FP) marks.
It isn't an issue of consciously trying to release the trigger subconsciously (similar to "Don't think about pink elephants"), which in turn leads to a superior performance. I believe as your mental images develop, as a result of constant conscious attention to the details of your performance, you develop the ability to "let go" and perform unconsciously.
Start with the conscious and you will develop the subconscious. In practice, make a conscious shot plan, develop it and tune it for what works best for you. Then follow it fanatically, striving for excellence and never settling for mediocrity. If you do this often (consistent and sustainable training), it will become part of you, and you will start to perform subconsciously.
As for the when/why of triggering, I can pass some thoughts along. It usually boils down to what works for you. Aside from blantantly bad ideas ("In the split second that your sights seem to appear roughly on the target, tense every muscle in your shoulder, arm, and hand while simultaneously hitting that trigger with everything that you've got!"), ever technique has advantages and disadvantages, depending on the individual. The key is to find what works for you.
BTW: did you get the Rika setup okay?
Patrick
More excellent stuff here, again. My question.
I don't shoot subconsciously except for perhaps 5% of my shots. I have specific reasons why I haven't been able to but that's going too far off topic for now. Anyway those of you who've mastered subconscious trigger release does the actual shot release come as a suprise ? Is the suprise factor I ocassionally get because I haven't turned over to the subconscious sufficently and does that disappear when you fully switch ?
From my own perspective I take up first stage pressure as I'm lowering down through the black. I find my best shots happen when I slow down lowering through the black, coming to a stop in the sub 6 hold. I.e. it's a smooth process getting slower and halting in the right place. If I stop too soon I have to re-adjust likewise if I over lower and have to raise very slightly.
With free pistol the only difference is that I can hold on aim for longer and the shot doesn't appear to suffer but then I'm lower down the learning curve. I rarely get to shoot it and therefore I concentrate on air and more or less only train for air.
Rob.
I don't shoot subconsciously except for perhaps 5% of my shots. I have specific reasons why I haven't been able to but that's going too far off topic for now. Anyway those of you who've mastered subconscious trigger release does the actual shot release come as a suprise ? Is the suprise factor I ocassionally get because I haven't turned over to the subconscious sufficently and does that disappear when you fully switch ?
From my own perspective I take up first stage pressure as I'm lowering down through the black. I find my best shots happen when I slow down lowering through the black, coming to a stop in the sub 6 hold. I.e. it's a smooth process getting slower and halting in the right place. If I stop too soon I have to re-adjust likewise if I over lower and have to raise very slightly.
With free pistol the only difference is that I can hold on aim for longer and the shot doesn't appear to suffer but then I'm lower down the learning curve. I rarely get to shoot it and therefore I concentrate on air and more or less only train for air.
Rob.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Rob
With a sub-concious release the shot will not be a surprise. The brain has initiated the shot so will not be surprised when it happens.
Whilst the surprise shot could come from someone shooting in "automatic" (totally different to sub-concious) it is more likely to come from an error in technique (which can still score a perfect ten).
With a sub-concious release the shot will not be a surprise. The brain has initiated the shot so will not be surprised when it happens.
Whilst the surprise shot could come from someone shooting in "automatic" (totally different to sub-concious) it is more likely to come from an error in technique (which can still score a perfect ten).
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
David,David Levene wrote: Whilst the surprise shot could come from someone shooting in "automatic" (totally different to sub-concious) it is more likely to come from an error in technique (which can still score a perfect ten).
Would you provide more detail about the difference between 'automatic' and 'subconscious' shooting?
Thanks,
Fred
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Fred Mannis wrote:David,
Would you provide more detail about the difference between 'automatic' and 'subconscious' shooting?
In sub-conscious shooting the brain, through the eyes, recognises that the sights are lined up and conditions are right to fire the shot and sends an impulse to the trigger finger to pull the trigger and release the shot. This process typically takes 0.25 to 0.35 seconds.
In automatic shooting, once the sights are lined up somewhere in the aiming area the brain starts the process of increasing the pressure on the trigger. At some stage, probably a few seconds later, the shot will go off. Once the process has begun the only other instruction is "abort". The shooter only has to worry about standing still and keeping his arm as steady as possible.
When you are used to looking a Scatt traces from several shooters you expect to see a reduction of possible score during the reaction time. Provided that this is not linked with an increase in trace velocity it is indicative of someone who is using the sub-conscious method. The gun is going off a reaction time after the brain has recognised the perfect conditions. During that time the conditions have become less good.
It comes as somewhat of a surprise when you first see (the somewhat rare) consistant traces showing no sign of that change during the reaction time. The signal to start the process was given some seconds before, perfect sight alignment was not part of the criteria. If you can hold the gun in a 9.5 ring area then that is where the shot will go.
I will say that in approximately 10 years of studying traces I have only seen a handful of automatic shooters, all of whom have been extremely high class.
Talking to research sports psychs they can see totally different brain activity on EEG traces, something to do with alpha waves (which is where they started to lose me).
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Steve Swartz
"Perfect sight alignment is not part of the criteria."
Well, o.k., but as long as I have to focus intently on *something* I might as well focus intently on maintaining perfect sight alignment . . .
(note: yes of course I don't actually "see" perfect sight alignment but that is what I am focused on doing- to distract my conscious mind from trying to step in and manage the release of the shot. I guess I could just close my eyes and "visualize" during the release phase but that has some negative consequences!)
Steve Swartz
Well, o.k., but as long as I have to focus intently on *something* I might as well focus intently on maintaining perfect sight alignment . . .
(note: yes of course I don't actually "see" perfect sight alignment but that is what I am focused on doing- to distract my conscious mind from trying to step in and manage the release of the shot. I guess I could just close my eyes and "visualize" during the release phase but that has some negative consequences!)
Steve Swartz
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David Levene
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- Location: Ruislip, UK
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sdesrocher
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:05 pm
Thanks for the replies - definitely some good stuff to think about here.
Steve S. - a question for you about your criterion of "time has passed" for aborting the shot. Do you specifically have a count going on in your mind (e.g. abort after 5 seconds, or whatever is your acceptable time range), or is it based on monitoring (a) whether the sights move out of the acceptable area of wobble, and/or (b) whether conscious thoughts about the shot being released start to arise?
Rob - I too have tried experimenting with this technique of taking up pressure while moving through the black. It seems to work brilliantly at times, less so at others. For me, it has produced the best results at times, but the least consistency (which probably just means that I need to devote more time to training it). For you, does the shot release occur almost immediately (i.e. 1-2 seconds) after you arrive in the sub-6 area?
Patrick - the Noptel results are interesting. They beg the question - are the score ranges a leading or a lagging indicator? In other words, should consistently achieving a score >540 prompt a switch to a subconscious release, or are the scores a result of perfecting a subconscious release? An esoteric question to be sure, but it seems like there is a difference.
Hope others are finding this thread worthwhile.
Good Shooting,
Steve
Steve S. - a question for you about your criterion of "time has passed" for aborting the shot. Do you specifically have a count going on in your mind (e.g. abort after 5 seconds, or whatever is your acceptable time range), or is it based on monitoring (a) whether the sights move out of the acceptable area of wobble, and/or (b) whether conscious thoughts about the shot being released start to arise?
Rob - I too have tried experimenting with this technique of taking up pressure while moving through the black. It seems to work brilliantly at times, less so at others. For me, it has produced the best results at times, but the least consistency (which probably just means that I need to devote more time to training it). For you, does the shot release occur almost immediately (i.e. 1-2 seconds) after you arrive in the sub-6 area?
Patrick - the Noptel results are interesting. They beg the question - are the score ranges a leading or a lagging indicator? In other words, should consistently achieving a score >540 prompt a switch to a subconscious release, or are the scores a result of perfecting a subconscious release? An esoteric question to be sure, but it seems like there is a difference.
Hope others are finding this thread worthwhile.
Good Shooting,
Steve
Steve,sdesrocher wrote:Thanks for the replies - definitely some good stuff to think about here.
Rob - I too have tried experimenting with this technique of taking up pressure while moving through the black. It seems to work brilliantly at times, less so at others. For me, it has produced the best results at times, but the least consistency (which probably just means that I need to devote more time to training it). For you, does the shot release occur almost immediately (i.e. 1-2 seconds) after you arrive in the sub-6 area?
Hope others are finding this thread worthwhile.
Good Shooting,
Steve
I find optimal shot release between 1 and 3 seconds. As often as not any longer than that and I find the results suffer although my cut off is about 5 secs (although perhaps it should be sooner (?)). One of the things I notice is that I subconsciously change the way I shoot so more often than not I drift into over lowering followed by compensation. Now that can be OK (according to my 'coach') but the average of the results are lower scores than the 'proper lowering' technique. I suspect the issues are multifactorial; At least one is a concentration thing. Or perhaps I should correct that to be consistent (trained) concentration i.e. learning to repeat the process over and over. I also suspect it's a small amount of fatigue creeping in - which is probably self exacerbating.
So I guess I should 'self coach' and correct the above observations <g>. I'll write myself a note in my shooting diary and see if I can work on it.
Rob.
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Ed Hall
Not quite the original questions, but...
I've read this thread through entirely too many times and although I think I follow all the points and agree with a tremendous amount (I especially like Steve Swartz's description of his process), I still seem to be at odds with many smaller details. Perhaps it's the semantics; perhaps just language ambiguities; maybe just the fact that I'm not in this circle regularly. It's possible my personal understanding of the subconscious activity is what is being referred to as automatic; again differing groups' definitions of commonly observed traits.
Regardless of the above, there are several different methods to propel objects to a distant point and I suppose we all touch on many of these throughout our travels. My current belief structure is such:
If you can train to achieve a consistent trigger operation that is always identical every time you operate the trigger, with the identical same timing and identical same pressures with the identical same vectors (did I say identical enough?), and then study your hold enough that your subconscious is familiar with your pattern(s), and you can tell your subconscious what you want to achieve, and you have the confidence to turn the work over to your subconscious, it (subconscious) will work out all the details to allow coincidence of all the factors at the correct time to fire centered shots.
To break this all down, let's look at the trigger operation first. Everyone always talks about consistency in the operation of the trigger. Why? Because, the subconscious needs to know how long it takes for the operation to complete. If the duration of an operation is known, the start can be initiated "that duration" ahead of when it should complete. Combined with the knowledge of how a hold pattern progresses, the subconscious can determine when to initiate the trigger operation for the best chance of coincidence at the center.
Two common activities destroy the above scenario:
1) Misapplied trigger operation. If you don't have a consistent trigger with all those identical parts from above remaining consistent, the subconscious has no idea how long the trigger will take to complete. With no sense of duration, how can it determine start time? Or, if start time is predetermined, how can it know when to create coincidence of the rest?
2) Changing the hold pattern. Again, if you are constantly changing the pattern by adding corrections, the subconscious can't get a good idea of where the progression will take it. Actually, this can be overcome by the subconscious if it "KNOWS" it can count on the trigger being exact, and the trigger has been started. These are the shots most of us have experienced where the sights seem to move (from somewhere) into perfect alignment just as the shot breaks.
Two things to keep in mind from the above:
1) (I have this as number 1, on purpose!) Work toward a trigger operation that is always the same. This way the subconscious knows what to expect. If the subconscious knows what to expect from the trigger, it can work all kinds of issues with everything else.
2) Learn to allow your hold to progress within its own pattern without adjusting anything. If your progression commonly takes you away from your aiming area, work with your NPA and all the other details instead of consciously moving your hold back. Every time you "fix" a hold error, you interrupt the flow of your pattern and your subconscious needs to start over in its calculations. Work for a hold pattern that floats over the area of aim without any "fixes" required.
Additional things to keep in mind:
1) If you study your hold patterns as to how they settle and the results for those settles, after awhile you can tell whether a shot will progress to centered or not, by the settle. Imagine being able to tell whether you're going to fire a ten or not before you shoot! Don't believe it? How many times did that little voice tell you not to fire and you did anyway, to disappointment?
2) If anything suggests aborting a shot, abort the shot. As stated earlier, "No questions!" If questions like, "Have I been up too long?" or, "Should I abort?" (or any similar) arise, the answer is, "Yes!"
3) Be careful of being carried away over uncommon errant shots. Things happen and an occasional err doesn't invalidate an otherwise good routine. Forget the uncommon happenings and focus on the majority.
4) Only work with results in training, review and goals. Work on the process otherwise.
Some specific comments/questions in no particular order:
1) I think the Noptel numbers given are mostly indicators of level achieved rather than time to switch, but be careful here; A well developed trigger can be started consciously and then the process of hold coincidence turned over to the subconscious with good results. Would this be considered a subconscious shot? It certainly isn't a subconscious trigger.
2)(a) Steve Swartz - I hope I don't mess up what I'm trying to ask, but in your intense focus on perfect sight alignment, would you say that you are consciously trying to force perfect alignment or would you consider it as a visualization of perfect alignment and an observation of real time? Would you say you are "making" the sights stay aligned or watching their alignment?
(b) I, too, somewhat agree with "Perfect sight alignment is not part of the criteria." If you have a well developed trigger and your subconscious knows your hold pattern, it (subconscious) can take care of the alignment during the trigger operation. This will really only manifest itself recognizably with slower trigger operations. Steve Swartz appears to be working with a quick trigger and therefore he may need to be closer to perfection at its start. Jump on me if I'm out of order, Steve.
3) If your results degrade after 20 shots of training, change your training to work within that initial interval. Three twenty shot periods of better results will take you further than one longer period where the last thing remembered was poor performance. You might even schedule your match such that you take a couple breaks and mentally restart for each twenty.
4) Creating a pattern for the shot timing can work to some degree if it is consistent. If you (and more importantly, your subconscious) know(s) for a fact that the shot will break at a certain point, you(it) can work with the alignment for coincidence at center.
5) In training, it may be beneficial to work with some aspects separately. It is quite OK to study what your hold pattern is like without firing. It is sometimes a good way to learn a better settle. Work with what your body wants to do. The best NPA is one where your sights settle to a particular point of their (your subconscious's) choice. Consistency is more important than specifics.
6)(a) It is very important for your subconscious to know what you want. If it doesn't know you want centered shots, it will be very happy to just shoot anywhere. Excitement is a key factor in telling your subconscious what interests you. This excitement should be tempered for things you'd rather not experience often. IOW, excitement over a miss is still excitement to your subconscious.
(b) The best way to tell your subconscious what you want, away from the excitement manner, is to use visualization. There are different appropriate times for different visualizations. Results visualization should be used during other than the shot process. Shot process visualization should be used during the process.
I've probably "motor-fingered" way too long. I hope this isn't too far fetched in everyone's eyes. I have high shoulders, so pile it on everyone...
Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/
Regardless of the above, there are several different methods to propel objects to a distant point and I suppose we all touch on many of these throughout our travels. My current belief structure is such:
If you can train to achieve a consistent trigger operation that is always identical every time you operate the trigger, with the identical same timing and identical same pressures with the identical same vectors (did I say identical enough?), and then study your hold enough that your subconscious is familiar with your pattern(s), and you can tell your subconscious what you want to achieve, and you have the confidence to turn the work over to your subconscious, it (subconscious) will work out all the details to allow coincidence of all the factors at the correct time to fire centered shots.
To break this all down, let's look at the trigger operation first. Everyone always talks about consistency in the operation of the trigger. Why? Because, the subconscious needs to know how long it takes for the operation to complete. If the duration of an operation is known, the start can be initiated "that duration" ahead of when it should complete. Combined with the knowledge of how a hold pattern progresses, the subconscious can determine when to initiate the trigger operation for the best chance of coincidence at the center.
Two common activities destroy the above scenario:
1) Misapplied trigger operation. If you don't have a consistent trigger with all those identical parts from above remaining consistent, the subconscious has no idea how long the trigger will take to complete. With no sense of duration, how can it determine start time? Or, if start time is predetermined, how can it know when to create coincidence of the rest?
2) Changing the hold pattern. Again, if you are constantly changing the pattern by adding corrections, the subconscious can't get a good idea of where the progression will take it. Actually, this can be overcome by the subconscious if it "KNOWS" it can count on the trigger being exact, and the trigger has been started. These are the shots most of us have experienced where the sights seem to move (from somewhere) into perfect alignment just as the shot breaks.
Two things to keep in mind from the above:
1) (I have this as number 1, on purpose!) Work toward a trigger operation that is always the same. This way the subconscious knows what to expect. If the subconscious knows what to expect from the trigger, it can work all kinds of issues with everything else.
2) Learn to allow your hold to progress within its own pattern without adjusting anything. If your progression commonly takes you away from your aiming area, work with your NPA and all the other details instead of consciously moving your hold back. Every time you "fix" a hold error, you interrupt the flow of your pattern and your subconscious needs to start over in its calculations. Work for a hold pattern that floats over the area of aim without any "fixes" required.
Additional things to keep in mind:
1) If you study your hold patterns as to how they settle and the results for those settles, after awhile you can tell whether a shot will progress to centered or not, by the settle. Imagine being able to tell whether you're going to fire a ten or not before you shoot! Don't believe it? How many times did that little voice tell you not to fire and you did anyway, to disappointment?
2) If anything suggests aborting a shot, abort the shot. As stated earlier, "No questions!" If questions like, "Have I been up too long?" or, "Should I abort?" (or any similar) arise, the answer is, "Yes!"
3) Be careful of being carried away over uncommon errant shots. Things happen and an occasional err doesn't invalidate an otherwise good routine. Forget the uncommon happenings and focus on the majority.
4) Only work with results in training, review and goals. Work on the process otherwise.
Some specific comments/questions in no particular order:
1) I think the Noptel numbers given are mostly indicators of level achieved rather than time to switch, but be careful here; A well developed trigger can be started consciously and then the process of hold coincidence turned over to the subconscious with good results. Would this be considered a subconscious shot? It certainly isn't a subconscious trigger.
2)(a) Steve Swartz - I hope I don't mess up what I'm trying to ask, but in your intense focus on perfect sight alignment, would you say that you are consciously trying to force perfect alignment or would you consider it as a visualization of perfect alignment and an observation of real time? Would you say you are "making" the sights stay aligned or watching their alignment?
(b) I, too, somewhat agree with "Perfect sight alignment is not part of the criteria." If you have a well developed trigger and your subconscious knows your hold pattern, it (subconscious) can take care of the alignment during the trigger operation. This will really only manifest itself recognizably with slower trigger operations. Steve Swartz appears to be working with a quick trigger and therefore he may need to be closer to perfection at its start. Jump on me if I'm out of order, Steve.
3) If your results degrade after 20 shots of training, change your training to work within that initial interval. Three twenty shot periods of better results will take you further than one longer period where the last thing remembered was poor performance. You might even schedule your match such that you take a couple breaks and mentally restart for each twenty.
4) Creating a pattern for the shot timing can work to some degree if it is consistent. If you (and more importantly, your subconscious) know(s) for a fact that the shot will break at a certain point, you(it) can work with the alignment for coincidence at center.
5) In training, it may be beneficial to work with some aspects separately. It is quite OK to study what your hold pattern is like without firing. It is sometimes a good way to learn a better settle. Work with what your body wants to do. The best NPA is one where your sights settle to a particular point of their (your subconscious's) choice. Consistency is more important than specifics.
6)(a) It is very important for your subconscious to know what you want. If it doesn't know you want centered shots, it will be very happy to just shoot anywhere. Excitement is a key factor in telling your subconscious what interests you. This excitement should be tempered for things you'd rather not experience often. IOW, excitement over a miss is still excitement to your subconscious.
(b) The best way to tell your subconscious what you want, away from the excitement manner, is to use visualization. There are different appropriate times for different visualizations. Results visualization should be used during other than the shot process. Shot process visualization should be used during the process.
I've probably "motor-fingered" way too long. I hope this isn't too far fetched in everyone's eyes. I have high shoulders, so pile it on everyone...
Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/
-
Steve Swartz
All:
Lots of good stuff to ponder over. In trying to capture and answer the main questions that jumped out at me (more long-windedness follows):
1) I don't keep a count in my head. When I realize that I have been holding the sights up there- I have been holding too long. Outside observers report 2-3 seconds from "settle" is when I tend to bail. This works out to be 3-4 seconds from initial aiming.
2) I am triggering *a lot* faster now than I ever have before. It's hard to measure these things directly . . . videotape and external obeservers show a very rapid increase in pressure; even when slo-mo is used on the tape. It took me a long time to get here . . . followed Bill Blankenship's training advice from "Pistol Shooter's Treasury." Let me clarify- triggering is fast but more importantly AUTOMATIC and CONSISTENT! Ed and I have shared our theories of "automatic shooting" over hte years and I think we are in agreement here. Like hitting a 90 mph fastball- your brain has to "lead" the sights and you absolutely must have consistency in WOBBLE and TRIGGER TIMING. "Human Lock Time" as it were must be as consistent as possible.
3) Not sure about focusing on standing still. I have made a conscioous decision as to which elements of technique I CHOOSE to be "subconscious," "Semi-Autonomous," and "Conscious." I could be wrong- but I have CHOSEN to think about sight alignment. Trigger is subconscious. Approach to NPA is semi-autonomic; as well as stance, grip etc. whcih begin as conscious but drop down into semi-autonomic (like breathing) during the sag-to-settle phase. During shot "permission" stage the only thing I am thinking about is staring a hole into that front sight while visualizing perfect alignment (NOT AIM!).
4) Abort is triggered if ANY thought enters my mind (aside from the neutral "buzz" or "tone" during release permission phase) after the initial settle. Sometimes, I screw up and release the shot anyways. THIS IS BAD BAD BAD- **especially** if the shot is a solid ten.
5) O.K., this is has been way too focused on how Steve Swartz pervceives his shot process . . . sorry to get so self centered here . . . but it took a long time of stupidity and stubborness to finally listen and hear the deep thoughts of great shooters. Then apply them in my own shaky, uncertain, way. I'm hoping that by talking about this stuff I can help others avoid my training and perceptual errors.
BOTTOM LINE:
"Training" is the deliberate act of PROGRAMMING a human "fire control computer." This FCC must LEARN how to anticipate where the sights will be "HUMAN LOCK TIME" away in the future. This FCC must be given permission to release the shot at the right moment. It takes 10,000 perfect shots (they might be . . . no, at the beginning, they will be . . . 8s, then 9s, then finally 10s). A perfect shot is a perfect PROCESS of delivering the shot.
Anyhow
Your Mileage May Vary
Steve "Crazy Theory Boy" Swartz
Lots of good stuff to ponder over. In trying to capture and answer the main questions that jumped out at me (more long-windedness follows):
1) I don't keep a count in my head. When I realize that I have been holding the sights up there- I have been holding too long. Outside observers report 2-3 seconds from "settle" is when I tend to bail. This works out to be 3-4 seconds from initial aiming.
2) I am triggering *a lot* faster now than I ever have before. It's hard to measure these things directly . . . videotape and external obeservers show a very rapid increase in pressure; even when slo-mo is used on the tape. It took me a long time to get here . . . followed Bill Blankenship's training advice from "Pistol Shooter's Treasury." Let me clarify- triggering is fast but more importantly AUTOMATIC and CONSISTENT! Ed and I have shared our theories of "automatic shooting" over hte years and I think we are in agreement here. Like hitting a 90 mph fastball- your brain has to "lead" the sights and you absolutely must have consistency in WOBBLE and TRIGGER TIMING. "Human Lock Time" as it were must be as consistent as possible.
3) Not sure about focusing on standing still. I have made a conscioous decision as to which elements of technique I CHOOSE to be "subconscious," "Semi-Autonomous," and "Conscious." I could be wrong- but I have CHOSEN to think about sight alignment. Trigger is subconscious. Approach to NPA is semi-autonomic; as well as stance, grip etc. whcih begin as conscious but drop down into semi-autonomic (like breathing) during the sag-to-settle phase. During shot "permission" stage the only thing I am thinking about is staring a hole into that front sight while visualizing perfect alignment (NOT AIM!).
4) Abort is triggered if ANY thought enters my mind (aside from the neutral "buzz" or "tone" during release permission phase) after the initial settle. Sometimes, I screw up and release the shot anyways. THIS IS BAD BAD BAD- **especially** if the shot is a solid ten.
5) O.K., this is has been way too focused on how Steve Swartz pervceives his shot process . . . sorry to get so self centered here . . . but it took a long time of stupidity and stubborness to finally listen and hear the deep thoughts of great shooters. Then apply them in my own shaky, uncertain, way. I'm hoping that by talking about this stuff I can help others avoid my training and perceptual errors.
BOTTOM LINE:
"Training" is the deliberate act of PROGRAMMING a human "fire control computer." This FCC must LEARN how to anticipate where the sights will be "HUMAN LOCK TIME" away in the future. This FCC must be given permission to release the shot at the right moment. It takes 10,000 perfect shots (they might be . . . no, at the beginning, they will be . . . 8s, then 9s, then finally 10s). A perfect shot is a perfect PROCESS of delivering the shot.
Anyhow
Your Mileage May Vary
Steve "Crazy Theory Boy" Swartz
(As a relatively new shooter who is reading and thinking about this a lot,) I think of the perfect shot process as something in a closed box that can be started and monitored but, left to its own, will continue on automatic and run to completion.
Monitoring of that process is (ideally) also largely automatic and getting the "Abort!" signal to function correctly is like all other elements in that it is something that has to be practiced enough so that it becomes automatic.
Assuming a shot has been fired and something (in the brain) indicates "that wasn't right," I then think of the conscious brain as analyzing the performance, trying to identify what wasn't ideal, and then opening the closed box and taking out that part of the process for correction. The conscious mind puts that part of the process on the tool bench and using various tools, attempts to reshape it so that it works correctly.
Next, the repaired part of the process is put back in the box, the lid closed, and the process started and allowed to run. Conscious analysis then tries to figure out if the fix was correct and, if not, it tries again to effect a repair.
In order for this to work, the conscious brain has to know roughly how the process should work. After all, it has to initially hammer out and connect the pieces inside the box. The more reading and study it can do -- and that's where these discussions come in -- the more likely it is that what the consciousness crafts will work well.
Secondly, I've been somewhat frustrated to be unable to find a "Here's how to shoot an X everytime" book but now I see that everyone's "box" is slightly different, that the raw materials each of us has to put in the box is different, and each person's ability to analyze, modify and refit those parts is also going to vary.
There is some similarity from one shooter to the next, however, so this isn't hopeless. We all hold similarly, NPA is a very useful component to put in your box early on and hearing from others what sorts of analysis are useful (self-monitoring, a coach, video tape, etc.) is great.
I have compared shooting to riding a bicycle in that much of what happens has to be automatic (but I said "subconscious" in a posting on that so maybe I need to rethink the use of that word).
The idea of the "process in the box" helps me understand what ties the rank beginner -- who is tinkering with the pieces, often at random, and trying to produce a good shot and, over time, assembles some sort of process "in the box" that works the same way each time -- to the expert -- who detects a deficiency and takes a single piece out of the process and gives it a few strokes with the polishing stone before replacing it and trying again.
For the beginner, many of the pieces in his box are only roughly shaped; much of what interests the experts is too fine an adjustment for the beginner. But it can benefit the beginner to listen to the experts in a couple of ways. First, it helps build an appreciation for what a finely polished process is at the end of all this work. Second, listening to the experts suggests the general shape of what the beginner must craft. And third, as simple as it sounds to "Line up the sights on the portion of the target that is your aiming area and release the shot without disturbing that alignment", we are all learning just how finely honed a process is required to do that over and over and over 270 times, and more.
--
Ed Skinner, ed@flat5.net, http://www.flat5.net/ (shooting notes there)
Monitoring of that process is (ideally) also largely automatic and getting the "Abort!" signal to function correctly is like all other elements in that it is something that has to be practiced enough so that it becomes automatic.
Assuming a shot has been fired and something (in the brain) indicates "that wasn't right," I then think of the conscious brain as analyzing the performance, trying to identify what wasn't ideal, and then opening the closed box and taking out that part of the process for correction. The conscious mind puts that part of the process on the tool bench and using various tools, attempts to reshape it so that it works correctly.
Next, the repaired part of the process is put back in the box, the lid closed, and the process started and allowed to run. Conscious analysis then tries to figure out if the fix was correct and, if not, it tries again to effect a repair.
In order for this to work, the conscious brain has to know roughly how the process should work. After all, it has to initially hammer out and connect the pieces inside the box. The more reading and study it can do -- and that's where these discussions come in -- the more likely it is that what the consciousness crafts will work well.
Secondly, I've been somewhat frustrated to be unable to find a "Here's how to shoot an X everytime" book but now I see that everyone's "box" is slightly different, that the raw materials each of us has to put in the box is different, and each person's ability to analyze, modify and refit those parts is also going to vary.
There is some similarity from one shooter to the next, however, so this isn't hopeless. We all hold similarly, NPA is a very useful component to put in your box early on and hearing from others what sorts of analysis are useful (self-monitoring, a coach, video tape, etc.) is great.
I have compared shooting to riding a bicycle in that much of what happens has to be automatic (but I said "subconscious" in a posting on that so maybe I need to rethink the use of that word).
The idea of the "process in the box" helps me understand what ties the rank beginner -- who is tinkering with the pieces, often at random, and trying to produce a good shot and, over time, assembles some sort of process "in the box" that works the same way each time -- to the expert -- who detects a deficiency and takes a single piece out of the process and gives it a few strokes with the polishing stone before replacing it and trying again.
For the beginner, many of the pieces in his box are only roughly shaped; much of what interests the experts is too fine an adjustment for the beginner. But it can benefit the beginner to listen to the experts in a couple of ways. First, it helps build an appreciation for what a finely polished process is at the end of all this work. Second, listening to the experts suggests the general shape of what the beginner must craft. And third, as simple as it sounds to "Line up the sights on the portion of the target that is your aiming area and release the shot without disturbing that alignment", we are all learning just how finely honed a process is required to do that over and over and over 270 times, and more.
--
Ed Skinner, ed@flat5.net, http://www.flat5.net/ (shooting notes there)
The only comment that immediately springs to mind is the trigger release and the time dependance. To my mind the subconscious release must be sight alignment driven and not time driven. There must be a time element but that should not take precedence over the former as otherwise the result is more likely to be shots fired in a greater spread. As I understand it however the subconscious can 'concentrate' on multiple functions whereas the conscious mind can only focus on one thing at a time.
Rob.
Rob.
-
Ed Hall
The subconscious not only can concentrate, but it can calculate to an extreme degree in real time and project future events, if provided with accurate data.
Let's see how many eyebrows raise at the following:
The subconscious can even be more precise than your hold, if you let it.
It is common to believe that your shots will fall randomly within your hold area. This is valid for shots that go off in a random time frame during your hold pattern. But your subconscious can do better than that if you can turn the firing over to it and you have a consistent trigger.
If your subconscious knows for a fact that your trigger takes 1.5 seconds every time you start the operation, it (subconscious) can evaluate the hold pattern and calculate when the best conditions in the hold will occur and start the trigger 1.5 seconds prior to those "best conditions."
Two factors must be met:
1) Your trigger must be consistent. Sound familiar? In order to accurately calculate coincidence, your subconscious must know when the trigger operation will complete.
2) Your hold pattern must be undisturbed by conscious corrections. It must be allowed to naturally float over the aiming area, such that the subconscious can evaluate it and determine the best timing for coincidence. (BTW, the faster the trigger, the less work for your subconscious, but the more work making the trigger pure.)
But, wait! There's more! That hold pattern you have is driven by the natural corrections already going on within your nervous system to help keep you in line with your aiming area. If you start your consistent trigger consciously and turn the rest of the operation over to your subconscious (and your subconscious knows what you want), it can move your hold such that it will fall into the correct area of aim at the moment of fire. This scenario is more obvious in Rapid Fire, the sustained stages for Standard and the Rapid stage of Center Fire.
High shoulders waiting... Pile it on...
Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/
Let's see how many eyebrows raise at the following:
The subconscious can even be more precise than your hold, if you let it.
It is common to believe that your shots will fall randomly within your hold area. This is valid for shots that go off in a random time frame during your hold pattern. But your subconscious can do better than that if you can turn the firing over to it and you have a consistent trigger.
If your subconscious knows for a fact that your trigger takes 1.5 seconds every time you start the operation, it (subconscious) can evaluate the hold pattern and calculate when the best conditions in the hold will occur and start the trigger 1.5 seconds prior to those "best conditions."
Two factors must be met:
1) Your trigger must be consistent. Sound familiar? In order to accurately calculate coincidence, your subconscious must know when the trigger operation will complete.
2) Your hold pattern must be undisturbed by conscious corrections. It must be allowed to naturally float over the aiming area, such that the subconscious can evaluate it and determine the best timing for coincidence. (BTW, the faster the trigger, the less work for your subconscious, but the more work making the trigger pure.)
But, wait! There's more! That hold pattern you have is driven by the natural corrections already going on within your nervous system to help keep you in line with your aiming area. If you start your consistent trigger consciously and turn the rest of the operation over to your subconscious (and your subconscious knows what you want), it can move your hold such that it will fall into the correct area of aim at the moment of fire. This scenario is more obvious in Rapid Fire, the sustained stages for Standard and the Rapid stage of Center Fire.
High shoulders waiting... Pile it on...
Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/