Starting out in RF, Need Some Advice / Answers Please

RaceDriver · Post by **RaceDriver** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:33 am

I'm looking to eventually compete in rapid fire pistol and have a few questions.

First off, where would I purchase a serious competition gun in the United States, such as a Walther GSP (and SSP, when it comes out), Pardini, FAS, etc? I have done a lot of research but can't seem to find where to get these guns. What competition pistols are available in the US? Can anyone give me a rough price range for the major rapid fire guns? Also, where can I buy competition grade ammo?

I figure that before spending a lot of money on a competition grade gun, that I should buy something cheaper to get started with and make sure I am really going to get serious. I have almost 100% decided to get a Sig-Hammerli Trailside Target model with 6" barrel as a starter pistol. Does anyone have any experience with this pistol or know of something better in the price range? I considered the competition model, but I just not sure that the adjustable grip and counterbalance is worth all the extra money. If I start getting serious, then I will need a serious pistol and the Trailside probably won't cut it anyway. Right? Any other opinions?

Also, does anyone know of any rapid fire ranges near Orlando, FL?

Thanks for any help,

Michael

Bill Poole · Post by **Bill Poole** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:53 am

its only 8 hours drive to Ft Benning (I know that because I will be driving from Benning to Orlando in late june)

come up and watch the USAS National Championships

RF occurs mid week around 20-23-jun as i recall

since there is some crossover between NRA bullseye and international, check German Salazar's Florida Bullseye website and see if you can find shistol pooters in Orlando http://www.floridashooting.com/

for shopping, call Larry's guns http://www.larrysguns.com/

he's sold Hammerli for years and this past year picked up Pardini

good shooting

Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:58 am

You could do worse than try our hosts, pilkington guns. I don't know what guns they stock but I'd be suprised if they didn't have something to suit. There are shooting clubs in your area - I checked when I was looking at holidaying there - but I don't know if any offer rapid fire. I'm sure others on here will know, failing that phone them up until you find one (you can always search google, and here)

Rob.

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:58 am

My suggestion would be to not buy a trailside but instead look for a used Walther GSP, Pardini SP or similar. If you start with a used pistol and it turns out that you don't like it (shooting rapid fire) then you will be able to sell it again for virtually what you paid for it. I started 19(!) years ago with a Walther OSP that was 10+ years old.

Also, with regard to match grade amminition. I think that you will find that any standard velocity .22 ammo that is produced in a modern plant will easily hold the ten ring on the rapid fire target, after all the ten ring is 100mm and most pistols will shoot about 25mm groups (or better). So, it will not hinder your shooting, and it will be cheaper. Just find something that functions reliably in your pistol.

william · Post by **william** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:50 am

Race (or is it Mr. Driver?),
The fact that you are thinking Trailside tells me you might want to contact Larry Carter. He is the living expert on that particular pistol. He also sells the Hammerli SP20, Pardini and Benelli pistols. Good luck.

http://www.larrysguns.com/

RaceDriver · Post by **RaceDriver** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:33 am

Cool, thanks for the all the info guys.

Where would I find a used GSP or Pardini SP? I checked the gun stores in town, and nothing... Are there dedicated classifieds somewhere? How much can I expect to pay for a used gun like that?

Bill Poole · Post by **Bill Poole** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:33 am

the Florida Bullseye forum moved to

http://www.shootersjournal.com/

Poole

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:01 am

I am not aware of any Rapid Fire in the state of Florida let alone Orlando. The closest that I'm aware of is at Ft. Benning and in S.C. at Charleston or Newberry.
This link will list the matches for Ft. Benning and Newberry:
http://www.usashooting.com/Schedules/ShootSchedule.cfm?

Here's the contact infor for Newberry:
http://www.usashooting.com/Clubs/Member ... ?ID=C00271

The contact info for The Georgia Competitive Shooters (Ft. Benning) can be found on the list above.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:26 pm

There are four GSP's for sale on www.gunsamerica.com

RaceDriver · Post by **RaceDriver** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:51 pm

There seem to be two different generations of the GSP for sale on that site: http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976577375.htm and http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976364033.htm. Which is newer/better? I'm guessing the first?

I have also found a Hammerli 280 for sale. Is it true that the GSP is generally considered a better gun than the Hammerli 280 (for RF, at least)?

- Michael

SB · Post by SB » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:56 pm

Hi Racedriver,
Try Earl's for Walther GSPs.
He has a great selection and is wonderful to deal with. He will even preset your two stage trigger to whatever configuration you want.
http://www.carlwalther.com/gsp.htm

RaceDriver · Post by **RaceDriver** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:59 pm

SB wrote:Hi Racedriver,
Try Earl's for Walther GSPs.
He has a great selection and is wonderful to deal with. He will even preset your two stage trigger to whatever configuration you want.
http://www.carlwalther.com/gsp.htm

Great link, thanks a lot!

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:20 pm

One point to be made here is that, while the GSP is a fantastic pistol and has proven to be as durable as granite, it is likely not the best pistol for shooting Rapid Fire. Its grip angle, very muzzle-heavy balance and short barrel make it a less optimal compromise of design constraints than some of the more modern pistols.

The Pardini's seem to do well, but my personal choice is the Matchguns MG-2. I have yet to fire another pistol which produces so little movement under recoil. I know I'm far from an expert on this subject but have heard this same opinion expressed by a couple of our national champions, both of whom have fired more .22short ammo than I'd ever care to think about. The OSP was a fantastic RF pistol in the days when it could be used for the sport, but now that we've moved to .22LR, the OSP/GSP design is beginning to show its age. I'd love to have a chance to shoot the SSP. Oh well, maybe someday... ;-)

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:05 am

but my personal choice is the Matchguns MG-2.

Yes but as they are reasonably new to the market there probably won't be many available/suitably priced for someone who is just starting out and isn't sure exactly what they want.

As for the comment that GSP is no longer competitive, there was a shooter using a GSP in the Korea World Cup final earlier this year. In fact being muzzle heavy isn't such a disadvantage as it helps dampen the recoil and lessen the effect of the occasional (hopefully) trigger snatch.

Yes some of the old factory grips are crap but thats nothing that a bit sanding and filling can't fix.

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:57 am

In fact an even better option for a shooter starting out would be a used IZH35M. If you could find one of course!

RaceDriver · Post by **RaceDriver** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:01 am

j-team wrote:In fact an even better option for a shooter starting out would be a used IZH35M. If you could find one of course!

Yeah, I've been keeping my eyes out for one. Very hard to find.

I think what I am going to do is just order a Trailside, since I need a versatile plinking/fun gun anyway. I'll just play around with that a little and try some other guns at the range until I decide what I really want.

I kinda wanna wait for the SSP to come out and see what people say about it. It could potentially be the best gun for RF with the new rules. The design looks pretty good, at least.

Pär Hylander · Post by **Pär Hylander** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:13 am

IMO, it is not possible to compare GSP and OSP on the same day ;-) The differences in grip geometry and height of barrel above the hand is very significant.

IMO, a rebuilt OSP to .22 LR (standard pistol specs) is a far better pistol for RF than GSP is.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:08 pm

Your biggest problem is where are you going to practice, and where are you going to compete. RF is difficult to practice for, because you need 5 targets. Most ranges have never heard of Olympic shooting and will not let you shoot simultaneously on 5 targets. Some will be horrified merely by the suggestion.I don't want to rain on your parade, but this is reality.

After finding a place to practice, buy a used High Standard Victor, SW 41, or Ruger Mark 1. Go to a few matches, and see what the top scorers are using. Ask what they like about that particular gun. Maybe they'll let you try a few strings after the match. Don't spend big bucks until you can make an educated decision.

Mark Freedman · Post by **Mark Freedman** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:15 pm

Anonymous wrote:Your biggest problem is where are you going to practice, and where are you going to compete. RF is difficult to practice for, because you need 5 targets. Most ranges have never heard of Olympic shooting and will not let you shoot simultaneously on 5 targets. Some will be horrified merely by the suggestion.I don't want to rain on your parade, but this is reality.

After finding a place to practice, buy a used High Standard Victor, SW 41, or Ruger Mark 1. Go to a few matches, and see what the top scorers are using. Ask what they like about that particular gun. Maybe they'll let you try a few strings after the match. Don't spend big bucks until you can make an educated decision.

This was from me. I thought I was logged in, but Noooooooh.

metermatch · Post by **metermatch** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:48 pm

Try a IZH 35M. It is only about $150 more than a Ruger mk2, and 3 times the gun. Yes, they are a little rough, but function perfectly. I bought mine to try against my Walther GSP's. The GSP is a fine pistol, but definately muzzle heavy compared to the IZH. Just a personal preference. You should find a IZH 35 for $400-450. I have bought 2 in the last few months for that price. I bought 2 GSP's in the last 6 months for about $900 each, so the guy wanting $1600 is nuts. By the way, in any case, look at Rink grips. About $200, but worth every penny. See larrysguns.com

Jeff

TargetTalk

Starting out in RF, Need Some Advice / Answers Please

Starting out in RF, Need Some Advice / Answers Please

Source for Walther GSP

Re: Source for Walther GSP

Rapid Fire Pistol