Traveling With Airguns
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
This is really a problem that everyone traveling with air guns will need to consider when going by air. At the recent college pistol championship at Ft. Benning one military school was told that their air cylinders could not go if they could not be inspected inside, which of course they could not. The whole team missed their flight, the coach's wife drove 2 hours round trip to the airport to pick up the cylinders, which she FedEx'ed to the team's destination the next day. Fortunately, they had an extra day built into their schedule and only missed some practice. As far as I know, none of the other teams or individuals traveling by air had any problems checking their air cylinders.
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Bill Poole
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:50 pm
- Location: Scottsdale, AZ
- Contact:
We should also perhaps involve the NYC2012 committee and the IOC since if this rule continues, NYC would have to withdraw their proposal....
well maybe I am applying more importance to our 4 events than they would. But it might raise visibility.
(And this possible leverage will no longer be available after July.)
The whole thing is so depressing, Cowboy Action Shooting is looking better and better....
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
well maybe I am applying more importance to our 4 events than they would. But it might raise visibility.
(And this possible leverage will no longer be available after July.)
The whole thing is so depressing, Cowboy Action Shooting is looking better and better....
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
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Bill Poole
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:50 pm
- Location: Scottsdale, AZ
- Contact:
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jrmcdaniel
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:01 pm
- Location: Grantsville, MD
I tried..... My original message is below the response. I have suggested that Field Target clubs sponsoring "national" matches provide for address for delivery by FedEx (etc) and for return shipping.
Joe
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Thank you for your email message regarding transporting Paintball guns.
Some paintball gear can be transported on-board the aircraft. Please refer to the guidelines below:
"Markers (aka Paintball Guns) are prohibited from carry-on luggage. These items should be packed in checked luggage. Paintball guns are not considered a firearm and may be transported in unlocked, soft or hard sided luggage.
"Compressed gas cylinders are allowed in checked baggage or as a carry-on ONLY if the regulator valve is completely disconnected from the cylinder and the cylinder is no longer sealed (i.e. the cylinder has an open end). The cylinder must have an opening to allow for a visual inspection inside. TSA Security Screeners will NOT remove the seal/regulator valve from the cylinder at the checkpoint. If the cylinder is sealed (i.e. the regulator valve is still attached), the cylinder is prohibited and not permitted through the security checkpoint, regardless of the reading on the pressure gauge indicator. TSA Security Screeners must visibly ensure that the cylinder is completely empty and that there are no prohibited items inside.
Please note: Many of the seals/regulators used in paintball are not designed to be removed from their cylinder by the end user. The seal/regulator should only be removed and reinstalled by a factory trained technician.
Passengers considering air travel with a compressed air or CO2 system would be advised to contact its manufacturer for guidance in locating a qualified technician, or to consider shipping the system to their destination via a parcel service.
Please note: Many of the seals/regulators used in paintball are not designed to be removed from their cylinder by the end user. The seal/regulator should only be removed and reinstalled by a factory trained technician.
We hope this information is helpful.
TSA Contact Center
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe McDaniel
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2005 2:59 PM
To: TSA-ContactCenter
Subject: Checked Airguns/Paintball Guns Question
There appears to have been a change in the rules for airguns (Compressed Air Guns) since I last traveled with my air rifle from Baltimore to Detroit last fall. At that time, the rules as I understood them were that the gun needed to be empty and declared to the staff at the checked-luggage area -- essentially the same rules as for a powder gun. I did so and otherwise had no problems at all.
The new rules seem to have a contradiction with the "gas cylinder" rule in that many airguns and paintball guns use a small gas cylinder (3" diameter by 36" maximum) containing air or carbon dioxide. One of your agents (Peter W. Pandolfi, Transportation Security Specialist, Aviation Screening, Security Standards and Regulatory Programs, 571-227-2315) indicated that the gas cylinder rule also applies: "...the screener must visually inspect the cylinder both inside and
outside. The valve must be removed from the end of the cylinder which would create an open end."
This (apparently new restriction?) is difficult or impossible to comply with for most airguns and paintball guns. The tank designs in common usage do not permit the valve to be removed easily or at all.
The amount of gas is measured in cubic inches in all cases (worst case as above would be about .3 cu ft), so a rule based on the maximum dimensions, total volume or usage would be more consistent. Since powder gun shooters can usually legally load 10 pounds (or so) of high explosives on a plane, and the energy in an entire airgun tank probably approximates the energy in one powder cartridge, the safety factor for airguns is more than satisfied by either the maximum capacity or the usage rule I suggest below:
The airgun rule should be changed to state something like "Compressed Air Guns and associated tanks with total volume of .5 cu ft or less" and the "Compressed Gas Cylinders" rule changed to "excluding compressed air gun tanks having a maximum volume of .5 cu ft". If you prefer, substitute dimensions such as I suggested: "maximum of 2 cylinders having a diameter of less than 3" and a length of less than 36". If the rule must include proving the cylinders are empty (other than air at room pressure, of course), a rule could state, "The cylinders will be deemed 'empty' if the presenter can demonstrate opening the valve and showing that the pressure has been released or that a gauge (manometer) attached to the vessel indicates an 'empty' state."
Best regards,
Joe McDaniel
Joe
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Thank you for your email message regarding transporting Paintball guns.
Some paintball gear can be transported on-board the aircraft. Please refer to the guidelines below:
"Markers (aka Paintball Guns) are prohibited from carry-on luggage. These items should be packed in checked luggage. Paintball guns are not considered a firearm and may be transported in unlocked, soft or hard sided luggage.
"Compressed gas cylinders are allowed in checked baggage or as a carry-on ONLY if the regulator valve is completely disconnected from the cylinder and the cylinder is no longer sealed (i.e. the cylinder has an open end). The cylinder must have an opening to allow for a visual inspection inside. TSA Security Screeners will NOT remove the seal/regulator valve from the cylinder at the checkpoint. If the cylinder is sealed (i.e. the regulator valve is still attached), the cylinder is prohibited and not permitted through the security checkpoint, regardless of the reading on the pressure gauge indicator. TSA Security Screeners must visibly ensure that the cylinder is completely empty and that there are no prohibited items inside.
Please note: Many of the seals/regulators used in paintball are not designed to be removed from their cylinder by the end user. The seal/regulator should only be removed and reinstalled by a factory trained technician.
Passengers considering air travel with a compressed air or CO2 system would be advised to contact its manufacturer for guidance in locating a qualified technician, or to consider shipping the system to their destination via a parcel service.
Please note: Many of the seals/regulators used in paintball are not designed to be removed from their cylinder by the end user. The seal/regulator should only be removed and reinstalled by a factory trained technician.
We hope this information is helpful.
TSA Contact Center
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe McDaniel
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2005 2:59 PM
To: TSA-ContactCenter
Subject: Checked Airguns/Paintball Guns Question
There appears to have been a change in the rules for airguns (Compressed Air Guns) since I last traveled with my air rifle from Baltimore to Detroit last fall. At that time, the rules as I understood them were that the gun needed to be empty and declared to the staff at the checked-luggage area -- essentially the same rules as for a powder gun. I did so and otherwise had no problems at all.
The new rules seem to have a contradiction with the "gas cylinder" rule in that many airguns and paintball guns use a small gas cylinder (3" diameter by 36" maximum) containing air or carbon dioxide. One of your agents (Peter W. Pandolfi, Transportation Security Specialist, Aviation Screening, Security Standards and Regulatory Programs, 571-227-2315) indicated that the gas cylinder rule also applies: "...the screener must visually inspect the cylinder both inside and
outside. The valve must be removed from the end of the cylinder which would create an open end."
This (apparently new restriction?) is difficult or impossible to comply with for most airguns and paintball guns. The tank designs in common usage do not permit the valve to be removed easily or at all.
The amount of gas is measured in cubic inches in all cases (worst case as above would be about .3 cu ft), so a rule based on the maximum dimensions, total volume or usage would be more consistent. Since powder gun shooters can usually legally load 10 pounds (or so) of high explosives on a plane, and the energy in an entire airgun tank probably approximates the energy in one powder cartridge, the safety factor for airguns is more than satisfied by either the maximum capacity or the usage rule I suggest below:
The airgun rule should be changed to state something like "Compressed Air Guns and associated tanks with total volume of .5 cu ft or less" and the "Compressed Gas Cylinders" rule changed to "excluding compressed air gun tanks having a maximum volume of .5 cu ft". If you prefer, substitute dimensions such as I suggested: "maximum of 2 cylinders having a diameter of less than 3" and a length of less than 36". If the rule must include proving the cylinders are empty (other than air at room pressure, of course), a rule could state, "The cylinders will be deemed 'empty' if the presenter can demonstrate opening the valve and showing that the pressure has been released or that a gauge (manometer) attached to the vessel indicates an 'empty' state."
Best regards,
Joe McDaniel
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GA Guest
More Info on Air Cylinders
Joe,
Close, but you missed a couple of "Key" points.
Call me,
Roy McClain
(678) 772-8185 cell
Close, but you missed a couple of "Key" points.
Call me,
Roy McClain
(678) 772-8185 cell
Is the problem not that the cylinders may have compressed gas in them but that they may have some "nasty" material in them like C4 explosive or black powder. I believe that this is the issue (but TSA never says what they are looking for), but it really makes no sense when you consider that you can (I believe) carry spray deodorants or hair sprays.
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mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
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jrmcdaniel
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:01 pm
- Location: Grantsville, MD
re 40% oxygen -- Air is about 20% oxygen and compressing it does not increase the percentage of oxygen nor make it inherently more dangerous (other than the stored energy from compression).
Re "nasty material" -- you can legally send ammunition (which is in a closed cylinder). This is certainly a "nasty material" and there is no requirement that one end of the cylinder be removable.
Best,
Joe
Re "nasty material" -- you can legally send ammunition (which is in a closed cylinder). This is certainly a "nasty material" and there is no requirement that one end of the cylinder be removable.
Best,
Joe
The wreck in Florida did not contain a large amount of oxygen bottles. It contained Oxygen Generators. Those little masks that drop down from the ceiling of the plane are not connected to a compressed oxygen system. They are connected to an Oxygen Generator (an individual generator for each mask) that releases Oxygen through a chemical process. The chemical process also releases a lot of heat. The Oxygen generators were improperly stacked in the plane with some tires. Oxygen, Heat, and Tires are a bad combination.mikeschroeder wrote:Hi
This MAY be related in part to the Florida wreck, where a large amount of oxygen bottles were on board a plane that wrecked and caused a fire. Compressed air contains oxygen (say 40%). For some time, I believe that all compressed bottles, including deoderant were prohibited.
Mike
Wichita KS