I'm a new shooter in air pistol, most of my shots are inside the 7 ring.
But every once in a while I get a bad shot high left ( 3-4 ring), it
feels no different than the others. What am I missing, Help
I'am 14 years old and have been shooting competative air rifle
and smallbore since I was 8. I have an IZH-46m- Thanks
shooting high left
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F. Paul in Denver
Cord,
First of all if you are a new shooter and are only shooting sevens "once in a while" you're doingpretty darn good. Welcome to the sport and keep working hard.
Second, a wild shot (a 7 isnt really too wild) may not "FEEL" different it should certainly LOOK much different than any other shots.
I suggest you spend some time working on being able to "call your shot." By that I mean, right after the shot is released, estimate where on the target the shot landed WITHOUT looking at the target. You'll eventually get pretty good at doing this. You can only make this estimation if you
give intense and undivided concentration to your FRONT SIGHT. Focusing on the front sight will give you a mental\visual image of precisely where the sight was located (relative to the rear sight) at the instant your shot broke.
Watching your front sight will also reveal some of the more common grip and trigger control problems you may have. For instance, did the front sight dip just before the shot released? If so you may be "jerking" your shots (lack of smooth trigger operation). Or, if you noted the front
sight rise above the rear notch, you may be "pushing" the gun in anticipation of the shot. Seeing the sight move left or right as you apply trigger pressure could indicate that you need to work on correct trigger finger placement or that you are not applying straight backward pressure to the trigger or you are using too much thumb pressure (thumbing).
To a shooter, the front sight is like an x-ray is to a doctor - it reveals lots of diagnostic information you ordinarily cant see.
If you are not able to call your shot by seeing exactly what your front sight was doing at the moment the shot broke, this means you are definitely not concentrating on the front sight - no matter how much you think you really are. Many shooters are fooled into believing they are
focusing on the front sight when what they are really doing is allowing their focus to drift from the front sight to the target or even somewhere in between before firing. You must vigorously fight this temptation and stay put on that front sight - it's your best friend.
One last recommendation, pick up a copy of a book entitled "Pistol Shooter's Treasury" available at Gil Hebards for about $5.00. Describing this book as a treasury is a great understatement. The book contains advice from some of world's best shooters sharing their suggestions on breathing, trigger and of course, sight control. Hebard’s does not have a website but you can call them at (309) 289-2700.
You could also do some online reading right here on the Pilkington website by going to: http://www.pilkguns.com/hhg.htm
I'm sure you will get lots more advice from some of the very generous shooters on this site. Keep practicing and someday you' ll be able to say, "I only shoot 7's very rarely and when I do, I know ahead of time it's going to be a seven because my front sight told me so."
Tens and X's to you Cord!
F. Paul
First of all if you are a new shooter and are only shooting sevens "once in a while" you're doingpretty darn good. Welcome to the sport and keep working hard.
Second, a wild shot (a 7 isnt really too wild) may not "FEEL" different it should certainly LOOK much different than any other shots.
I suggest you spend some time working on being able to "call your shot." By that I mean, right after the shot is released, estimate where on the target the shot landed WITHOUT looking at the target. You'll eventually get pretty good at doing this. You can only make this estimation if you
give intense and undivided concentration to your FRONT SIGHT. Focusing on the front sight will give you a mental\visual image of precisely where the sight was located (relative to the rear sight) at the instant your shot broke.
Watching your front sight will also reveal some of the more common grip and trigger control problems you may have. For instance, did the front sight dip just before the shot released? If so you may be "jerking" your shots (lack of smooth trigger operation). Or, if you noted the front
sight rise above the rear notch, you may be "pushing" the gun in anticipation of the shot. Seeing the sight move left or right as you apply trigger pressure could indicate that you need to work on correct trigger finger placement or that you are not applying straight backward pressure to the trigger or you are using too much thumb pressure (thumbing).
To a shooter, the front sight is like an x-ray is to a doctor - it reveals lots of diagnostic information you ordinarily cant see.
If you are not able to call your shot by seeing exactly what your front sight was doing at the moment the shot broke, this means you are definitely not concentrating on the front sight - no matter how much you think you really are. Many shooters are fooled into believing they are
focusing on the front sight when what they are really doing is allowing their focus to drift from the front sight to the target or even somewhere in between before firing. You must vigorously fight this temptation and stay put on that front sight - it's your best friend.
One last recommendation, pick up a copy of a book entitled "Pistol Shooter's Treasury" available at Gil Hebards for about $5.00. Describing this book as a treasury is a great understatement. The book contains advice from some of world's best shooters sharing their suggestions on breathing, trigger and of course, sight control. Hebard’s does not have a website but you can call them at (309) 289-2700.
You could also do some online reading right here on the Pilkington website by going to: http://www.pilkguns.com/hhg.htm
I'm sure you will get lots more advice from some of the very generous shooters on this site. Keep practicing and someday you' ll be able to say, "I only shoot 7's very rarely and when I do, I know ahead of time it's going to be a seven because my front sight told me so."
Tens and X's to you Cord!
F. Paul
Cord,
If you're getting odd error shots high left the first thing you need to do is be able to call them. Your follow through should give you a very good indication of where the shot went. If it doesn't then concentrate on the sight picture (i.e. focus on that foresight) and see where the gun is really pointing on shot release. The normal addage is if the shot was a surprise then you weren't watching the sights properly (I do it myself every now and then).
If you don't already have one, then try and get some time with a coach. They should be able to smooth out any technical problems as F.Paul mentioned.
Rob.
If you're getting odd error shots high left the first thing you need to do is be able to call them. Your follow through should give you a very good indication of where the shot went. If it doesn't then concentrate on the sight picture (i.e. focus on that foresight) and see where the gun is really pointing on shot release. The normal addage is if the shot was a surprise then you weren't watching the sights properly (I do it myself every now and then).
If you don't already have one, then try and get some time with a coach. They should be able to smooth out any technical problems as F.Paul mentioned.
Rob.
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Nano
shoots high and left
Cord:
F. Paul said what you have to make exactly.
alone the fact that you should continue sustaining the pistol once the shot has been carried out, for a couple of seconds, there you will see where the front aim goes once carried out the shot and perhaps your same one or with the help of somebody with more experience (like Robstubbs say), you can see which is the error, the error can be very varied, as excess of pressure of the thumb, or increase the pressure at the moment to shoot.
Nano
F. Paul said what you have to make exactly.
alone the fact that you should continue sustaining the pistol once the shot has been carried out, for a couple of seconds, there you will see where the front aim goes once carried out the shot and perhaps your same one or with the help of somebody with more experience (like Robstubbs say), you can see which is the error, the error can be very varied, as excess of pressure of the thumb, or increase the pressure at the moment to shoot.
Nano
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Cord B
A question of emphasis
Certainly no one would disagree with advice to concentrate on the front sight and use it as a measure of what is happening with your shot. But I would like to suggest that an emphasis on looking for what you did "wrong" (e.g. producing a high left shot) is counter-productive. The only reason to pay a lot of attention to high left shots would be so that you could get better at shooting high left shots.
In other words, I would suggest that you pay a lot of attention to the shots that feel "perfect" (or close to it) and note where they go. If you develop a sense of what makes a perfect shot for you, and try to do whatever that is every time, pretty soon most of your shots will go close to the same place on the target. The group on the target is simply a measure of how consistently you execute your perfect shot. The shots that do not fall into that group are no more than a distraction, not worthy of your attention.
HTH,
FredB
In other words, I would suggest that you pay a lot of attention to the shots that feel "perfect" (or close to it) and note where they go. If you develop a sense of what makes a perfect shot for you, and try to do whatever that is every time, pretty soon most of your shots will go close to the same place on the target. The group on the target is simply a measure of how consistently you execute your perfect shot. The shots that do not fall into that group are no more than a distraction, not worthy of your attention.
HTH,
FredB
I agree with you Fred, but... its more like a chicken or egg discussion - what comes first. Certanly, concentrate on the good shots and that good positive feeling. But to get rid of the bad shots you have to identyfy what went wrong, poor trigger control, bad sight alignment etc. I think this is even more important if you are a beginner.
Take care,
Axel
Take care,
Axel
Actually you have to take care when identifying what went wrong. Sure you need to identify mistakes to work on eliminating them but you can become an expert in mistakes. What you are trying to achieve is to consistently shoot good shots. Focus on proper technique and you should be going in the right direction. A good coach is invaluable to spot areas requiring improvement.Axel wrote:I agree with you Fred, but... its more like a chicken or egg discussion - what comes first. Certanly, concentrate on the good shots and that good positive feeling. But to get rid of the bad shots you have to identyfy what went wrong, poor trigger control, bad sight alignment etc. I think this is even more important if you are a beginner.
Take care,
Axel
Rob.
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Cord B
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Guest
Hi, This thread is exactly what I was hoping to find :)
I'd like to further the discussion because I am hitting high left too.
I'm (slowly) learning to shoot with an LP10 and notice that, when the shot breaks, my front sight sometime rises to the upper left (and hits upper left). The degree of rise that occurs seems to depend on how I hold the gun--eg, if I regrip the pistol the problem may go away. I also notice that it gets worse the more fatigued I get.
This is probably a matter of practice, but high left does seem to be where the shot will go if my grip is not perfect.
Does it sound like anything else might be amiss??
-Dave
I'd like to further the discussion because I am hitting high left too.
I'm (slowly) learning to shoot with an LP10 and notice that, when the shot breaks, my front sight sometime rises to the upper left (and hits upper left). The degree of rise that occurs seems to depend on how I hold the gun--eg, if I regrip the pistol the problem may go away. I also notice that it gets worse the more fatigued I get.
This is probably a matter of practice, but high left does seem to be where the shot will go if my grip is not perfect.
Does it sound like anything else might be amiss??
-Dave
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Dave,
The LP10 trigger has many adjustments and you might experiment with how/where you are placing your finger on the trigger.
Does this movement also happen when you are dry firing at a blank card? I find that I can dry fire with no change in sight alignment, then find my front sight going up slightly when I put up a bulleye.
Fred
The LP10 trigger has many adjustments and you might experiment with how/where you are placing your finger on the trigger.
Does this movement also happen when you are dry firing at a blank card? I find that I can dry fire with no change in sight alignment, then find my front sight going up slightly when I put up a bulleye.
Fred
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RobertB
Dave,
could it be that you try to check the gap between your sights and the black of the target while you are aiming? If so you will be tempted to raise your arm when you see the gap is getting to big instead of putting the gun down, especially when you are getting tired.
The result will in most cases be a high shot and a feeling in arm and shoulder like you "shoveled" the pellet out to the target.
Hope that helps.
Robert
could it be that you try to check the gap between your sights and the black of the target while you are aiming? If so you will be tempted to raise your arm when you see the gap is getting to big instead of putting the gun down, especially when you are getting tired.
The result will in most cases be a high shot and a feeling in arm and shoulder like you "shoveled" the pellet out to the target.
Hope that helps.
Robert
Agreed that unrefined technique is the issue. Specifically, I'm almost positive that I'm not holding the gun in a repeatable way and/or that my stance is not well adjusted.
A two handed hold verifies that I'm lining the sights up consistently and releasing the shot where I want to, as the two hand hold produces tiny groups (this would also confirm that the air reguation was good).
What changes w/ the one hand is the recoil/muzzle rise which seems less consistent from shot to shot. I've moved three of the barrel weights to the right hand side of the muzzle and the previous "roll" seems less pronounced. However, I'm now going to concentrate on how I actually face the target, making sure that I'm not "forcing" the hold so that it comes "unwound" when the shot breaks.
Thanks again :)
A two handed hold verifies that I'm lining the sights up consistently and releasing the shot where I want to, as the two hand hold produces tiny groups (this would also confirm that the air reguation was good).
What changes w/ the one hand is the recoil/muzzle rise which seems less consistent from shot to shot. I've moved three of the barrel weights to the right hand side of the muzzle and the previous "roll" seems less pronounced. However, I'm now going to concentrate on how I actually face the target, making sure that I'm not "forcing" the hold so that it comes "unwound" when the shot breaks.
Thanks again :)
Dave,
The LP10 has a very adjustable grip - make use of that. It can be so that you are struggeling to point your gun straight at the target. ie, problems keeping your sights alligned. If you are struggeling it will sure get worse when you are tired...
Do a quick test when you shoot next time. Grab your gun and make your stand. Close your eyes and rise your gun to a position that feels good for you. Open your eyes and notice how your sights are alligned and where your gun is pointing at. Adjust your grip (and stand) accordingly.
Good luck,
Axel
The LP10 has a very adjustable grip - make use of that. It can be so that you are struggeling to point your gun straight at the target. ie, problems keeping your sights alligned. If you are struggeling it will sure get worse when you are tired...
Do a quick test when you shoot next time. Grab your gun and make your stand. Close your eyes and rise your gun to a position that feels good for you. Open your eyes and notice how your sights are alligned and where your gun is pointing at. Adjust your grip (and stand) accordingly.
Good luck,
Axel
Dave,
It's good to hear it helped you to, I had the same problem. :-) This tip came from my coach.
"Gave me pause to think about all the factors that go into a good shot."
Just keep it simple! Another thing that my coach says is that once you have learned the basics like trigger handling, hold, stance, sight allignment etc, the best thing is to not think at all - everything should be automatic - you are a shooting robot aiming for 10.9s. To get near that state of mind you have to train a lot...
thanks,
Axel
It's good to hear it helped you to, I had the same problem. :-) This tip came from my coach.
"Gave me pause to think about all the factors that go into a good shot."
Just keep it simple! Another thing that my coach says is that once you have learned the basics like trigger handling, hold, stance, sight allignment etc, the best thing is to not think at all - everything should be automatic - you are a shooting robot aiming for 10.9s. To get near that state of mind you have to train a lot...
thanks,
Axel