Loding in prone

DaveF · Post by **DaveF** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:46 pm

I seem to have a major problem sometimes in the prone postition in smallbore. Sometimes I'm shooting x's all day long then suddenly it goes to pot. It's not fatigue, it seems to be from problems with loading. I am kinda longed bodied and short armed, espeically my upper arm. I have dificulty loading in prone without moving my right elbow. If I keep my elbow in place, I really seem to have to roll to be able to reach the chamber to insert a round and that seems to cause the butt to eventually move and though a 7 or even a 6. It can really move the point of inpact as to be expected for subsequent shots. If I move my elbow to load than that also can really effect the postition. I'm shooting a 1907 in a 1413 stock with an adjustable carrier. the length of pull is about 13 1/4" to 13 1/2" at the shortest. I could really use probably a 12 1/2" LOP which is what my HP rifle LOP is. Any other thoughts? I can shoot a 200 one time and then a 185 or 190 another. Just no consistancy and the moving of the butt really seems to be the problem. Oh for 2 more inches of reach! Dave

Don · Post by **Don** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:06 pm

Dave; There are a couple of things you could do. One is to lift the right elbow up, load and then drop it down into the same spot each time. Also, make sure to check your NPA after every loading. I, too, roll a little to the right to load in prone and every so often I check my NPA because the butt tends to shift after a few shots. Hope this helps.

DaveF · Post by **DaveF** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:49 pm

It does, I hae come to the same conclusion with talking to others. Forget about trying to not move the elbow. Keep the butt in the same place in the shoulder and keep the cheek on the rifle or vastly more important than trying to not move the elbow. Espically since that is what is causing shifts in the buttplate. I check my NPA all the time, but, if the stock has shifted, you will still have some shift in impact even though your NPA appears the same. I guess we sometimes just get stuck on one issue and since I had the elbow drilled into me in the past, I just couldn't seem to adapt. We I'm going to move the stupid elbow. As an aside, I did a test where I stayed in position and had someone else load for me, all x's with 5 shot groups of no more that 1 1/2 caliber were the norm, Dave

allxes · Post by **allxes** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:21 pm

I too have had the same issue and I can say that it is ok to take the elbow up to load, in fact it is better than rolling since the roll will eventually change your NPA quite a bit. Once you load and the bolt is closed, do not move the hand, but just straight drop the elbow in place. Second, cheek pressure and placement is key and I think the majority of the time the cause of erratic groups.

You can also try griping the rifle the same way all the time after the load, then droping the elbow so you get the same grip, finger placement on the trigger all the time.

Good Shooting,
Allxes

Dfry · Post by **Dfry** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:49 am

Thanks, I usually try to keep my cheek resting without moving it. I think the griping the rifle then dropping the elbow is a good point. That should help get the elbow back to the same general position. I always check my NPA but again. the NPA can seem right but if the stock has moved in the shoulder then it really isn't. Thanks, Dave

Robbo · Post by **Robbo** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:15 pm

I received the book Ways of the Rifle for Xmas this year. They address the problem of loading in prone. Their solution is to take a shallower body angle to the target-laying almost head on. This causes the rifle to be closer to perpendicular to the shoulder. This shortens the distance for the right hand. Slings and handstops would have to be adjusted to acheive this.

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I will as I have the same problem.

DaveF · Post by **DaveF** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:05 pm

I may try that, a little like what my position is in HP prone. We shall see, Dave

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:29 pm

Uh, why don't you just shorten the stock? Anschutz stocks are notoriously too long for many people.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:46 pm

I've consider it, but the stock in oand of itself is not to long except for not being able to keep my elbow down. I've taken the rear carrier off just to see and it would be about where I would want it and it seems like I'm ontop of the action. I can reach the port that way though. It would also cause some problems with the cheek piece machnism and the rear carrier system.

Dave

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:04 am

It is possible. I know of one shooter who has completely removed the buttplate carrier, the buttplate is screwed straight onto the wood of his 1813. You may find that you need a new cheekpiece though, easily done with a rasp and a bit of 2"x2".

good luck

Tim S

Exeter UK

Jaroslav · Post by **Jaroslav** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:32 pm

...rather exotic. Alfred Tauber from Austria has developed a special aluminium stock which is solving the problem. It was developed in the beginning of the 90's and there are still some pieces around. Unfortunately, I have no photo at the hand. The stock is called "Evolution" and the principle is moving and bedding the entire system with an offset of some 15 cm towards the shooter.

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:27 pm

Jaroslav - are you talking about this stock:
http://liberation.hyperlink.cz/libera04 ... resize.JPG

Jaroslav · Post by **Jaroslav** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:44 pm

Yes, exactly this stock. This is the Evolution. And the young lady might be Alfred Tauber's daughter, Sabrina.

Robbo · Post by **Robbo** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:10 am

Dave,

I was able to try the new "head on" (for lack of a better discription) position. It did make it much easier to load with out getting out of position. I'm not sure if I'll stay with it however. I need to try some more sling/handstop adjustments before I commit either way, as my score definetly suffered.

Robbo

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:15 pm

I played with it a little but felt off balance. May try it some more, but I am finding if I load then establish my grip, then drop my elbow to the mat, it seems to be relatively the same position each time. This seems to be working, just haven't had much time to really test it yet, Dave

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:54 pm

my name is jared miles i have a problem with pulse, i have the sling high on my shoulder as much as possible but the pulse is still there. i aslo have a vast heart rate and cant slow it down, i can feel it punding while iam laying down aswell. it just keeps on going and going as fast as it can, i have tried working out to slow it down because i thought i could have been out of shape, but that hasnt worked.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:36 pm

Make sure the sling is not pulling from the inside of your arm, and try losening the cuff a little. If your using a sling hanger to keep the sling up, it shouldn't be a problem. Dave

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Loding in prone

Loding in prone

Prone loading

Prone

Elbows and stuff

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Loading in prone