Hi
I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding the shut down of high school JROTC shooting programs pending investigation of a fatality involving a .22?
I was wondering what state, etc this was in?
any info appreciated.
suspension of JROTC shooting programs????
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963
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Guest
Suspension of JROTC Marksmanship Training
Suspension of JROTC Marksmanship Training
Commanders: Effective immediately, all marksmanship training is to be suspended within the Army Junior ROTC program. This step is necessary during the period the command evaluates the circumstances surrounding a fatality that occurred on 5 November 2004 during a .22 caliber rifle marksmanship training exercise. This suspension of training will include both .22 caliber rifle and air rifle marksmanship training.
Every effort will be made to complete this review as quickly as possible - since it obviously impacts on preparation for the upcoming regional and national rifle competitions. Questions from the media regarding this suspension are to be directed to the Public Affairs staff at this headquarters. POC is Mr. Paul Kotakis.
Acknowledge receipt of this message through your chain of command.
V/R
MG Alan 'Bud' Thrasher
Commanding General
United States Army Cadet Command
Commanders: Effective immediately, all marksmanship training is to be suspended within the Army Junior ROTC program. This step is necessary during the period the command evaluates the circumstances surrounding a fatality that occurred on 5 November 2004 during a .22 caliber rifle marksmanship training exercise. This suspension of training will include both .22 caliber rifle and air rifle marksmanship training.
Every effort will be made to complete this review as quickly as possible - since it obviously impacts on preparation for the upcoming regional and national rifle competitions. Questions from the media regarding this suspension are to be directed to the Public Affairs staff at this headquarters. POC is Mr. Paul Kotakis.
Acknowledge receipt of this message through your chain of command.
V/R
MG Alan 'Bud' Thrasher
Commanding General
United States Army Cadet Command
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Guest
Accident in Missouri
MMA Student Shot Dead in Accident
A 17-year-old Missouri Military Academy student died Friday morning after an accidental shooting at the Academy's indoor rifle range. Mexico Police got the call at 9:20 this morning, and the student was then brought to Audrain Medical Center where he was pronounced dead. Police say the accident occurred during a standard rifle training class. Another student turned to adjust a piece of equipment and his gun went off hitting the victim in the chest. Watch KOMU's Live Report
<http://128.206.143.120:8080/ramgen/komu ... h110504.rm>
Authorities investigate accidental shooting at military academy
Associated Press
MEXICO, Mo. - A high school student at the Missouri Military Academy was killed in an apparent accidental shooting during a .22-caliber rifle qualification course at an indoor range.
Police said the 17-year-old victim was struck in the upper body Friday when one of the students turned to adjust a mat and his rifle discharged. The student, whose name was not released, was taken to the Audrain Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.
"It's an awful tragedy," said Chief Mike Jerichow of the Mexico Public Safety Department. He said reports would be forwarded to the county prosecutor, who would determine whether to file charges.
Col. Ronald Kelly, president of the academy, said the shooting was "clearly an accident" based on the accounts he had heard. The students were involved in the rifle qualification course as part of an Army Junior ROTC program for ninth- through 12th-grade students.
"We're trying to take care of the kids and the teachers right now," Kelly said. "We're a pretty tight knit group and these kids are like brothers to each other, so this is very tough."
A 17-year-old Missouri Military Academy student died Friday morning after an accidental shooting at the Academy's indoor rifle range. Mexico Police got the call at 9:20 this morning, and the student was then brought to Audrain Medical Center where he was pronounced dead. Police say the accident occurred during a standard rifle training class. Another student turned to adjust a piece of equipment and his gun went off hitting the victim in the chest. Watch KOMU's Live Report
<http://128.206.143.120:8080/ramgen/komu ... h110504.rm>
Authorities investigate accidental shooting at military academy
Associated Press
MEXICO, Mo. - A high school student at the Missouri Military Academy was killed in an apparent accidental shooting during a .22-caliber rifle qualification course at an indoor range.
Police said the 17-year-old victim was struck in the upper body Friday when one of the students turned to adjust a mat and his rifle discharged. The student, whose name was not released, was taken to the Audrain Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.
"It's an awful tragedy," said Chief Mike Jerichow of the Mexico Public Safety Department. He said reports would be forwarded to the county prosecutor, who would determine whether to file charges.
Col. Ronald Kelly, president of the academy, said the shooting was "clearly an accident" based on the accounts he had heard. The students were involved in the rifle qualification course as part of an Army Junior ROTC program for ninth- through 12th-grade students.
"We're trying to take care of the kids and the teachers right now," Kelly said. "We're a pretty tight knit group and these kids are like brothers to each other, so this is very tough."
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shootingarmygirl
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:39 am
- Location: Illinois
- Contact:
shooting
My former JROTC instructor was telling me today that he got an email from the brigade today saying that all rifle teams will be shut down for at least 90 days and until each Army JROTC rifle range can be inspected. I'm not sure if anyone else has heard that or anything. All I know is that we have a couple of students that want to shoot in college and this being their senior year...it's devastating considering they aren't allowed to take the rifles off the range or practice until this is all resolved.
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Guest
What a terrible tragedy and waste of life!
Senseless ...
But this was NOT AN *ACCIDENT* ! Remember anytime a gun is loaded, it can go off - and what it will hit is what the muzzle is pointing at. you KNOW the gun is loaded because you loaded it. Nothing accidental about that, just stupid.
Let this stand-down be a sobering reminder that bolts are opened, fingers removed from triggers, and guns pointed in safe directions, when NOT aiming at targets.
DRILL THIS HOME !!
Otherwise we will be responsible for killing our whole sport.
Senseless ...
But this was NOT AN *ACCIDENT* ! Remember anytime a gun is loaded, it can go off - and what it will hit is what the muzzle is pointing at. you KNOW the gun is loaded because you loaded it. Nothing accidental about that, just stupid.
Let this stand-down be a sobering reminder that bolts are opened, fingers removed from triggers, and guns pointed in safe directions, when NOT aiming at targets.
DRILL THIS HOME !!
Otherwise we will be responsible for killing our whole sport.
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txnlegacy2
is this really fair to shooting sports?
I totally agree safety is the 1st priority. We are members of a 4h group & we always start off every shooting practice-rifle or shotgun- or event with a safety meeting to quickly recap. We will most likely use this incident as part of our next meeting.
But it is not the guns or the sport that caused this tragedy, it was due to human error. Unfortunately those uneducated in shooting sports, will only hear about and remember this.
My daughter also participates in the JROTC program as a high school student & in the 4h program, they use the air rifle.
While I do offer my condolences for this loss of life, and the anguish it will cause the person who discharged their firearm; I also cannot help but wonder? Would they shut down any other sport nation wide pending an accident that results in death?? What brings this to mind are the many football players that have died due to heatstroke, or other sports that have taken illicit drugs, you get the picture. so is this really fair to shooting sports?
But it is not the guns or the sport that caused this tragedy, it was due to human error. Unfortunately those uneducated in shooting sports, will only hear about and remember this.
My daughter also participates in the JROTC program as a high school student & in the 4h program, they use the air rifle.
While I do offer my condolences for this loss of life, and the anguish it will cause the person who discharged their firearm; I also cannot help but wonder? Would they shut down any other sport nation wide pending an accident that results in death?? What brings this to mind are the many football players that have died due to heatstroke, or other sports that have taken illicit drugs, you get the picture. so is this really fair to shooting sports?
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Guest
Wrath of the old coach
ABSOLUTELY! Without being ever vigilant about safety, the sport will disappear.guest wrote:Is TT really the right place for this???
Safety rules are the first things we must learn when shooting or coaching someone, no matter what gun is being used, or what the person's experience is claimed to be. The safety rules should never get old or out of style. Without them, there is chaos; imagine driving without rules. Take these reminders to heart - it is your teammates that will be imperilled by your violation of those safety rules!
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...
in response to this incident.
first off this is a definate tragedy indeed, and it is apparent that this puts in danger the future of our sport. The safety rules were infact violated and the shooter whose gun discharged obviously wasn't thinking clearly, but this was an accident. As horrible as this incident is, it is not going to do any good for you to pin the majority of the blame on the shooter. Personally it is the coaches responsibility to teach the shooters proper safety and handling of their rifles, and i do know that once this is taught the shooter must take on that responsibilty himself, but as the adult, the coach should reinforce these safety rules every day that the shooters are on the line. In reality the main focus now should be on the family of the victim, and on how we can prove that shooting is one of the safest sports.
Out of curiosity - who is "guest?"
Most posts have recognizable names, however I keep seeing "guest" and wonder if that is someone's forum name. Or is this a form of anonymity?
Re: Out of curiosity - who is "guest?"
Any one can post here without loggin in and the post is registered as Guest.Bill177 wrote:Most posts have recognizable names, however I keep seeing "guest" and wonder if that is someone's forum name. Or is this a form of anonymity?
Re: here
IMHO, we should do exactly the opposite - take a leaf from the book used by aviation and publicly detail the entire accident and its analysis and the lessons learnt from it.guest wrote:IMHO, we should delete this whole thread and start one on safety.
Pick up a copy of Pilot or Flyer at your newsagent, read the "Safety Briefing" or "I learnt about flying from that" columns, they take a wholly unflinchingly honest look at aviation accidents every month, citing what happened, how and why it happened and giving recommendations to pilots on things to watch for in their own flying. They do this because to do otherwise is to risk a second accident from the same cause, possibly with more deaths - to do otherwise would be immoral.
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taylor
earlier today i left a post..mine is the third one up from this one i think.. and i responded to this because im 16 and im also a shooter, so i felt that this incident effected me in some way. i didn't use my name on here at first for the same reason most people didn't , just for that simple fact that this situation is very touchy, and i wasn't sure if people would agree with what i was saying.
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Peter Dorn
Fatality (long - ranting - not sorry though)
As the head coach of a team of young people, I have to say that my views are conflicted.
The coach and the line officer do indeed have a responsibility to the students that they are teaching and watching over.
The students also have a responsibility to follow the rules at all times, not just when it suites them.
Young people, Jr high and High School age have a very short attention span. This fact is proven over and over by people more qualified than myself. I also see this on the range. There is another thing that happens, and that is the fact that there are kids involved with our programs that just don’t want to be there. They are brought to the program and dropped off. We act sometimes as baby sitters for a time. I have also observed kids from other clubs/teams, that are on ADD drugs. Fortunately, nothing tragic has happened with these shooters.
Our range is 16 positions and we shoot sporter, precision and pistol at the same time). Adult supervision and diligence gets us through every training period and comp.
I am not, let me repeat, I am not condemning the coaching or the line officer.
In my opinion, the end responsibility resides with the shooter. The person with the pistol or the rifle in their hands.
I am tired of everyone trying to assess blame for things that happen to everyone around. If your kid goes out and beats up another kid, you as a parent are responsible, the gun manufactures are responsible for the misuse of the guns they make, if someone steals your guns and uses them in a crime, you are responsible. All this stuff is nonsense.
Who had the gun in his hands? Who loaded the gun? Who acted unsafely?
As much as we try to be on top of everything on the range (and we should) if we look left, something inevitably happens on the right. It takes a split second for something to happen.
As young as this shooter is, he or she must surely have known the rules on the range. He or she at best had a cranial infarction (brain fart) and someone died because of it. At worst, this was not an accident. I don’t know, because I was not there, and most of you out there were not either.
As for some out there wondering about the appropriateness of this thread here on Target Talk… Are you JOKING? This is the ONLY place we have to talk about issues like this. This is our link together. We in this sport are a family and we need to communicate and band together.
Has anyone considered getting all of the organizations (NRA, CMP, etc) lawyers together and get them down to Mo. to help out? Has anyone contacted anyone in the military that is responsible for the JROTC programs and voiced your concerns for shutting down all programs because of the incident?
What are you doing to protect our sport in this time of need. And YES! This is a time of need.
As for those that sign in as guest… Stand up and be counted for who you are. This is not a place to be invisible. The anti-gunners are banded together and put on a strong front. They do not care who knows who they are. We all need to be the same.
As goes this case, we all will go.
The coach and the line officer do indeed have a responsibility to the students that they are teaching and watching over.
The students also have a responsibility to follow the rules at all times, not just when it suites them.
Young people, Jr high and High School age have a very short attention span. This fact is proven over and over by people more qualified than myself. I also see this on the range. There is another thing that happens, and that is the fact that there are kids involved with our programs that just don’t want to be there. They are brought to the program and dropped off. We act sometimes as baby sitters for a time. I have also observed kids from other clubs/teams, that are on ADD drugs. Fortunately, nothing tragic has happened with these shooters.
Our range is 16 positions and we shoot sporter, precision and pistol at the same time). Adult supervision and diligence gets us through every training period and comp.
I am not, let me repeat, I am not condemning the coaching or the line officer.
In my opinion, the end responsibility resides with the shooter. The person with the pistol or the rifle in their hands.
I am tired of everyone trying to assess blame for things that happen to everyone around. If your kid goes out and beats up another kid, you as a parent are responsible, the gun manufactures are responsible for the misuse of the guns they make, if someone steals your guns and uses them in a crime, you are responsible. All this stuff is nonsense.
Who had the gun in his hands? Who loaded the gun? Who acted unsafely?
As much as we try to be on top of everything on the range (and we should) if we look left, something inevitably happens on the right. It takes a split second for something to happen.
As young as this shooter is, he or she must surely have known the rules on the range. He or she at best had a cranial infarction (brain fart) and someone died because of it. At worst, this was not an accident. I don’t know, because I was not there, and most of you out there were not either.
As for some out there wondering about the appropriateness of this thread here on Target Talk… Are you JOKING? This is the ONLY place we have to talk about issues like this. This is our link together. We in this sport are a family and we need to communicate and band together.
Has anyone considered getting all of the organizations (NRA, CMP, etc) lawyers together and get them down to Mo. to help out? Has anyone contacted anyone in the military that is responsible for the JROTC programs and voiced your concerns for shutting down all programs because of the incident?
What are you doing to protect our sport in this time of need. And YES! This is a time of need.
As for those that sign in as guest… Stand up and be counted for who you are. This is not a place to be invisible. The anti-gunners are banded together and put on a strong front. They do not care who knows who they are. We all need to be the same.
As goes this case, we all will go.
I must agree with Peter, that THIS is the proper forum to discuss problems within the junior shooting programs, and that the full light of invetigation is the only way to determine the cause (and hopefully solutions) to problems.
The person holding the firearm is always the reponsible party, however they only know what to do from the instruction and coaching they have had. Not being familiar with the details of the program where tha accident occurred, I cannot apportion blame to the coach (but there has to be some). Had this occurred on our range during use by our local NJROTC program I would attribute a very high level of fault to the coach, as his norm for coaching is to send the kids to the line while he sis in the ready room reading a newspaper. Because they shoot while I can seldom get to the range (right after school is out), I cannot help them other than to bring to the coach's attention the fact that he MUSDT be on the range with the shooters.
As to fault of the range safety officer, that is problematic becasue by the time you see something and say " don't d....", it's done.
For my part, I intend to make a special effort to visit the NJROTC shooting program more frequently (or have other qualified club members do so) when they again begin shooting. This is an aducational effort we must all be part of.
The person holding the firearm is always the reponsible party, however they only know what to do from the instruction and coaching they have had. Not being familiar with the details of the program where tha accident occurred, I cannot apportion blame to the coach (but there has to be some). Had this occurred on our range during use by our local NJROTC program I would attribute a very high level of fault to the coach, as his norm for coaching is to send the kids to the line while he sis in the ready room reading a newspaper. Because they shoot while I can seldom get to the range (right after school is out), I cannot help them other than to bring to the coach's attention the fact that he MUSDT be on the range with the shooters.
As to fault of the range safety officer, that is problematic becasue by the time you see something and say " don't d....", it's done.
For my part, I intend to make a special effort to visit the NJROTC shooting program more frequently (or have other qualified club members do so) when they again begin shooting. This is an aducational effort we must all be part of.