Anyone have experience shooting Marvel conversion kits on 1911-A1's? I would like to hear your opinions, cause I'm considering the possibilitie of adcquire one. I'm thinking about using it for ISSF Standard pistol on a Gold Cup series 70 frame.
Thanks,
Evia
Experience with Marvel Conversions
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Re: Experience with Marvel Conversions
I have not personally used one, but they are well thought of by U.S. Bullseye shooters - most other .22 conversions are not.Evia wrote:Anyone have experience shooting Marvel conversion kits on 1911-A1's? I would like to hear your opinions, cause I'm considering the possibilitie of adcquire one. I'm thinking about using it for ISSF Standard pistol on a Gold Cup series 70 frame.
Thanks,
Evia
For the price though, an IZH-35M may be a better choice for ISSF Std pistol. The 1911 is an excellent design, but the IZH - for just a little more - does have some advantages as a .22 target pistol.
Jay V
IL
Marvel Conversions
I used a Marvel conversion on a dedicated Caspian frame for a couple of years---I got rid of it after being frustrated with myriad feeding problems---bad magazines---the gun produced more alibis than a 83 year old drunk.
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mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
Re: Experience with Marvel Conversions
Hi Jay, I think that in order to get a 1911 to shoot with the IZH, the 1911 will cost substantially more. A 1911 .22LR is roughly 3rd on my list of things to buy. I expect to pay about $1,500 for it. $200 for the Marvel and the rest for a fitted 1911. If memory serves, the IZH is about $500.Jay V wrote:
I have not personally used one, but they are well thought of by U.S. Bullseye shooters - most other .22 conversions are not.
For the price though, an IZH-35M may be a better choice for ISSF Std pistol. The 1911 is an excellent design, but the IZH - for just a little more - does have some advantages as a .22 target pistol.
Jay V
IL
Most bullseye shooters shoot the Marvel conversion because all of the pistols that they shoot are carrying 1911 grips. You only have to learn one stance. I'm shooting a Ruger Mk II right now, so I don't know the extent of the problem in switching from one grip to another.
Mike
Wichita KS
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F. Paul
I dont shoot a Marvel conversion although I did seriously consider one.
I rejected the idea after I learned of the number of problems people continually seem to have making the conversion work without misfires and double shots etc. Many of the problems occur in the beginning when trying to mate the conversion to the frame.
In fairness, the shooters who have a Marvel that functions correctly are very pleased with the results.
A Marvel might be worth the risk if you had someone close by take the gun to for adjustments. But if you live on the Yucatan Peninsula, you may not have that option. An IZH or even a Clark Custom Ruger might be a better idea in that price range.
I rejected the idea after I learned of the number of problems people continually seem to have making the conversion work without misfires and double shots etc. Many of the problems occur in the beginning when trying to mate the conversion to the frame.
In fairness, the shooters who have a Marvel that functions correctly are very pleased with the results.
A Marvel might be worth the risk if you had someone close by take the gun to for adjustments. But if you live on the Yucatan Peninsula, you may not have that option. An IZH or even a Clark Custom Ruger might be a better idea in that price range.
Marvel Conversions
I think the Marvel on a 1911 frame is an excellent choice for NRA Bullseye. It is perfectly acceptable for ISSF, but would not be my first choice.
There are a few people who have had a myriad of problems and many people who have not had problems. I have a Marvel and plan to switch to it as my primary rimfire gun next year. I don't want to change until after Camp Perry. It is just as accurate as my Ruger or High Standard. The test target that came with my Marvel was 5 shots in < 0.75". I think that was at 50 yards, but I am not sure. I have shot it off a rest (with a dot scope) getting 10 shots in well under 3" at 50 yards. I will test it in a ransom rest along with my other guns later this summer, but have not had time.
A search of the Bullseye List archives (http://www.escribe.com/sports/bullseye/index.html) will give you a lot of information about Marvel's.
Good Luck,
Steve T
There are a few people who have had a myriad of problems and many people who have not had problems. I have a Marvel and plan to switch to it as my primary rimfire gun next year. I don't want to change until after Camp Perry. It is just as accurate as my Ruger or High Standard. The test target that came with my Marvel was 5 shots in < 0.75". I think that was at 50 yards, but I am not sure. I have shot it off a rest (with a dot scope) getting 10 shots in well under 3" at 50 yards. I will test it in a ransom rest along with my other guns later this summer, but have not had time.
A search of the Bullseye List archives (http://www.escribe.com/sports/bullseye/index.html) will give you a lot of information about Marvel's.
Good Luck,
Steve T
Maybe a Kart?
If you can find a Kart conversion instead, I believe it is generally thought to be a better choice. I really like mine. I understand the Marvel has an aluminum slide where the Kart is all steel. The problem is that there are not too many of these that show up for sale on the used market and when they do they are expensive. Fred Kart does have most of the parts available (firing pins, etc.) but not complete units.
I bought mine in near new condition on an Essex frame, said to have been built by Fred, for something in the $700 range as I recall.
John Dworak (716) 759-2364 johnnyd6@juno.com was building Kart copies as of a couple of years ago. I bought an aluminum shroud from him to lighten my gun and the workmanship was very nice. I think it took me a year to get it, though.
If you're interested you could call Fred. He is a pretty good talker and might have leads on conversions and/or opinions on Dworak. (910) 754-5212
I bought mine in near new condition on an Essex frame, said to have been built by Fred, for something in the $700 range as I recall.
John Dworak (716) 759-2364 johnnyd6@juno.com was building Kart copies as of a couple of years ago. I bought an aluminum shroud from him to lighten my gun and the workmanship was very nice. I think it took me a year to get it, though.
If you're interested you could call Fred. He is a pretty good talker and might have leads on conversions and/or opinions on Dworak. (910) 754-5212
If I may offer a slightly different response here. I have shot marvel conversions since the second year they were produced. I have owned, tested and competed with 4 different units (various production runs and minor changes) over the years. I currently have 2 units, as primary and backup .22, for NRA Conventional Pistol. I basically got offers too good to turn down for the units I no longer own. People saw some of the groups and just had to have them.
Every unit I have used has been accurate and reliable without any major problems.
No flame or anything, but most problems are inproper installation or trying to run too light trigger weights without other modifications. The mainspring (hammer spring) and cocking of the hammer is important to the recoil operation and timing of this unit due to the extremely light slide and fast cycle time.
Second most often related problem is "slam fire" with some brands of .22 ammo, especially Federal "dimpled" 900B and UM1. Marvels do have tight chambers and headspace, but that kinda helps get those sub 1 inch groups at 50 YARDS. Keep the lower portion of the breachface (just over the feed ramp) clean and most of these will go away. If still problems, simply return to Marvel, they have a reputation for standing behind their product.
Oh, on one unit after about 15,000 rounds the firing pin broke. I got 2 for free in the mail.
I run the units on SA and Les Baer frames with +3.5 pound triggers.
My top scores in practice are 891, match 889 and season averages over the past couple of years in the 880's (this is all outdoors, including Perry).
Made the Mayleigh Team or Mayleigh shootoff last 3 years with this setup.
However, this is not the best unit for ISSF. It is great for Conventional since most shooters will do 1911 style pistols for Centerfire and .45 matches. I can say the Marvel has probably added more points to my Centerfire and .45 scores than any other changes.
Every unit I have used has been accurate and reliable without any major problems.
No flame or anything, but most problems are inproper installation or trying to run too light trigger weights without other modifications. The mainspring (hammer spring) and cocking of the hammer is important to the recoil operation and timing of this unit due to the extremely light slide and fast cycle time.
Second most often related problem is "slam fire" with some brands of .22 ammo, especially Federal "dimpled" 900B and UM1. Marvels do have tight chambers and headspace, but that kinda helps get those sub 1 inch groups at 50 YARDS. Keep the lower portion of the breachface (just over the feed ramp) clean and most of these will go away. If still problems, simply return to Marvel, they have a reputation for standing behind their product.
Oh, on one unit after about 15,000 rounds the firing pin broke. I got 2 for free in the mail.
I run the units on SA and Les Baer frames with +3.5 pound triggers.
My top scores in practice are 891, match 889 and season averages over the past couple of years in the 880's (this is all outdoors, including Perry).
Made the Mayleigh Team or Mayleigh shootoff last 3 years with this setup.
However, this is not the best unit for ISSF. It is great for Conventional since most shooters will do 1911 style pistols for Centerfire and .45 matches. I can say the Marvel has probably added more points to my Centerfire and .45 scores than any other changes.
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mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
HiCR10X wrote:
Much cutting.
However, this is not the best unit for ISSF. It is great for Conventional since most shooters will do 1911 style pistols for Centerfire and .45 matches. I can say the Marvel has probably added more points to my Centerfire and .45 scores than any other changes.
Do you believe that the Les Baer with the Marvel conversion is better than the 1911 .22 LR Kimber which isn't a conversion? I haven't even seen one, just checked the website.
Thanks
Mike
Wichita KS
Hi Mike,mikeschroeder wrote:
Do you believe that the Les Baer with the Marvel conversion is better than the 1911 .22 LR Kimber which isn't a conversion? I haven't even seen one, just checked the website.
Thanks
Mike
Wichita KS
From what I have heard, the new Kimber .22/1911 uses a different system for the barrel mounting - Ceiner-style if I'm not mistaken. Generally these are not well-liked or used much for BE due to accuracy problems.
Also, you said $200 for the Marvel. I'm pretty sure they are running closer to $400 - correct me if I'm wrong...
Jay V
IL
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
And the original question was about a Marvel conversion on a Gold Cup frame for ISSF Standard Pistol.CR10X wrote:However, this is not the best unit for ISSF. It is great for Conventional since most shooters will do 1911 style pistols for Centerfire and .45 matches. I can say the Marvel has probably added more points to my Centerfire and .45 scores than any other changes.
My only question is, why would you want to unless you weren't worried about not being competitive (and that doesn't tie in with previous posts from the thread originator).
The Kimbers are a different design and purpose, not really accuracy units, although there may be some good examples out there. I try not to snub anybody's gun if possible. Hey, if you're on the line shooting it, whatever it is; you are better than 99.99% of all the other gun owners out there that don't even try to compete.
Marvels are running over $450 or so (US$) now with about a 3 or 4 month wait. Brownells or Midway usually have in stock, but I understand they may be backorded at present.
I don't think a Marvel is any better or worse for ISSF than say a S&W model 41, but it's probably not the best choice for dedicated 25 meter gun. However; if you have a 1911, shoot conventional and want to dabble in 25 meter, then do not feel slighted in the least. Mount it and shoot it.
As I tried to address, the Marvel seems to work best with trigger weights in the 3.5 pound range or require some other work to compensate if much lower; which is OK for me since I shoot that trigger for Conventional Centerfire and .45 guns. Personally for me it's not an issue, but for most people competition with that trigger weight, while good training, is probably not what you want as a full time job.
Marvels seem to fit on most frames without any problems (I have assisted many people with mounting units and suggestions); however if your frame has been modified (tightened) by a smith you might run into mounting problems.
Marvels are running over $450 or so (US$) now with about a 3 or 4 month wait. Brownells or Midway usually have in stock, but I understand they may be backorded at present.
I don't think a Marvel is any better or worse for ISSF than say a S&W model 41, but it's probably not the best choice for dedicated 25 meter gun. However; if you have a 1911, shoot conventional and want to dabble in 25 meter, then do not feel slighted in the least. Mount it and shoot it.
As I tried to address, the Marvel seems to work best with trigger weights in the 3.5 pound range or require some other work to compensate if much lower; which is OK for me since I shoot that trigger for Conventional Centerfire and .45 guns. Personally for me it's not an issue, but for most people competition with that trigger weight, while good training, is probably not what you want as a full time job.
Marvels seem to fit on most frames without any problems (I have assisted many people with mounting units and suggestions); however if your frame has been modified (tightened) by a smith you might run into mounting problems.
Yeah, you're rigth!!
My only question is, why would you want to unless you weren't worried about not being competitive (and that doesn't tie in with previous posts from the thread originator)[/quote]
You' re rigth David. I asked the question because I have a Colt Gold Cup National Match Series 70 frame with out slide and barrell (.45 slides and barrells are illegal at Mexico) and I have a Colt .22 conversion installed on it. I only wished to know if I would be able to use my frame for my favourite discipline, Standard Pistol. My "dutty" gun is a Hämmerli 208S
With Kindest regards,
Manuel Evia
You' re rigth David. I asked the question because I have a Colt Gold Cup National Match Series 70 frame with out slide and barrell (.45 slides and barrells are illegal at Mexico) and I have a Colt .22 conversion installed on it. I only wished to know if I would be able to use my frame for my favourite discipline, Standard Pistol. My "dutty" gun is a Hämmerli 208S
With Kindest regards,
Manuel Evia
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tango
gold cup marvel marriage
My Marvel shares time with my Bullseye dedicated Gold Cup modified by Ed Masaki in Hawaii. I have had no problems and find that I actually shoot it better then my 208s.
Best to you.
I will be in Mexico City next month..
Best to you.
I will be in Mexico City next month..
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hector
marvel conversion
I live in Tampico, Mexico and I bought a marvel conversion last year. I use it in a Kimber Gold Match Frame, its shoots real well. Visit the website of Marvel and what they put in there its all true. Really good groups.
But I think for real competition in the Standard Pistol in a good level you will be in a disadvantage with a 1911 frame because of the grips and the weight of pull of the trigger that is over 3.5 pounds.
For precision shooting the marvel shoots as good my Hammerli 208 or Sako Triace.
But I think for real competition in the Standard Pistol in a good level you will be in a disadvantage with a 1911 frame because of the grips and the weight of pull of the trigger that is over 3.5 pounds.
For precision shooting the marvel shoots as good my Hammerli 208 or Sako Triace.