MatchGun MG2 Carrier Maintenance

[M-1903A4]

I feel very fortunate. I have a first gen MG2RF and I initially had to send it back to Italy due to reliability issues and my gunsmith had to work on it some due to some feeding problems, but I have no problems since and I have not replaced any parts in about 20,000 rounds. My parts looked polished from Matchguns and the big preventative from my standpoint is keeping it very clean and using CCI Standard Velocity or Green Tag. Mine is very ammunition specific. Thanks for the videos and insight on the Carrier Maintenance. I am really hoping to avoid any issues, but it is good no know where there are some resources to reference.

[PaulE84]

Hi Doug,

I noticed a crack on my BIL yesterday after approximately 2k rounds. I have ordered a replacement in the meantime. It's hard to tell if the BIL actually touches the carrier ears as it's such a fine margin, and if it is touching, by how much etc. Is it worth shaving the ears down a little anyway?

[Gwhite]

See if you can slip a sheet of paper between them. Paper is typically ~ 0.05 mm thick (0.002"). Because they overlap when engaged, there's no need for the ears to be super close to the BIL. You probably need a bit of extra margin to deal with "overshoot" during firing. Both components are only held in place by spring loaded detents, so they could still be whacking each other during firing. If I get a chance this weekend, I can see if I can estimate the (static) gap on mine.

[PaulE84]

Hi Doug, I think my MG2 RF EVO is possessed. I broke my secondary release lever yesterday. The break occurred at the top just below the pin that holds it in. I wonder if it has anything to do with the battering it takes when the slide runs back and hits it when cycling. I have a replacement coming, but this is really unbelievable. Within 2.5k rounds, I broke a BIL and secondary release lever. I also had issues with my slide stop, so decided to leave it off. My extractor spring was slightly mangled which caused some extraction issues as well. I just don't understand why I'm having these issues. My friend broke 2x BIL's within 2k rounds, and so did another friend who broke his in as many rounds. I also had a few instances where the round didn't go completely into battery after the 2nd/3rd round and caused the rear of the case to blow out, and in a few of those instances left me with squibs. Do you know of anyone having this many issues? I'm trying to find out how to upload a new post/topic, but I can't seem to figure out how.

[Gwhite]

The MG2's seem to have problems in waves. One reason is that Morini kept tinkering with the design, and made changes without thorough testing. As a result, an ill conceived change got sent off to customers, and a whole series of pistols can have problems. The also didn't have any sort of version control or documentation on what version of parts went into what serial number pistol. In theory, Morini is no longer allowed to touch the production CAD files anymore, and they are trying to establish a new production operation with MUCH better process & version control.

Be warned, the secondary release lever is not a drop-in repair unless you are lucky. It normally has to be fitted to work with the hammer. If there isn't enough metal (or too much, if I recall correctly) in the right spots, it won't cock. I had to replace mine at one point, and I think I ended up needing a new hammer to work with the latest version of release lever... I have LOTS of notes on what I went through, but I'd need to dig them up.

[PaulE84]

Thank you, Doug. I will see how the replacement part goes and will be mindful of any fitting required. To your knowledge, will Matchguns open again? I feel the best-case scenario is for mine and my friends' guns to be sent back to Matchguns for a thorough look over and to have all issues addressed somehow. The problem is, my gun is still under warranty, but replacement parts may continue to keep breaking if I can't solve the primary problems with the gun. Perhaps the replacement parts themselves are flawed. I had my slide chamfered and polished/sanded as per Alessandros advise, so will see if that makes a difference for the BIL and its life span. I can't really get my money back from the dealer given the situation with Matchguns, and if parts just continue to break, I can't really sell it to someone willing to deal with the continued issues.

[Gwhite]

In theory, you can still get parts, also in theory, MatchGuns will be resurrected, and by an outfit that understands modern manufacturing far better then Cesare Morini. The availability of parts but not pistols apparently has to do with Italian gun laws. There is a special license required to manufacture firearms, and that takes time to acquire. Whatever the state of the original company, apparently their license isn't transferable.

My wife and I have 3 MG2's, with a total of about 38,000 rounds fired, and only one busted BIL. I know Morini was tinkering with the carrier design, because the batch of pistols some friends got on my recommendation had feed issues, which points to carrier problems. That's why I have to wonder if the carrier is breaking the BILs. Then again, the BIL's have also undergone design changes... My wife's is original, my first MG2 has the replacement in it (which was different), and my newest MG2 has yet a third version.

I have a pretty big collection of parts, some spares, and some replacements or ones that were replaced for various reasons. It's extremely rare to get two parts that are identical... On some, it's hard to tell if there were actual design changes, or just sloppy manufacturing tolerances. The good news is that they will usually play well together, but not always.

When you get new parts, the first thing I do is get the new & old ones under a digital microscope to see what the differences are. That can tell you if you may have to do fitting, or at least what they may have been trying to do with any design changes. If they send you an identical BIL to the one that broke, then if IT breaks, it's either one of Morini's design failures, a bad batch (like poor heat treating) or something else in the pistol is busting them.

If the damn things weren't so nice to shoot, I would have hurled them against a brick wall long ago...

[Shiloh]

A lesson I learned from 2 tours of duty at shore installations and numerous port visits while embarked in ships:

"Domani" means "tomorrow. In practice, it means "maybe someday".

"Dopodomani" means "the day after tomorrow". In practice, it means "ain't probably ever gonna happen".

The timeline for the resurrection of Matchguns is probably somewhere between the 2.

Italians aren't in a hurry to have a heart attack like Americans. Their style of living along with incredibly outstanding chow makes Italy a very attractive and beneficial place to live.

[Gwhite]

One thing to try once you get your new BIL installed: Clean everything, and put red marker on the area of the BIL and the carrier where they might intersect. Cycle the pistol by hand a few times as fast as you can, and then open up the pistol and look for any area where the marker has disappeared. If there's no obvious contact, head to the range and fire a couple shots. Take it apart and examine it again. That will tell you if things are hitting when the parts are moving at full speed. If you find any contact, stone those areas down on one of the other until they stop hitting.

Caveat: I haven't tried this on any of my pistols, so there may always be some contact under normal operation, but just a light tap, and not enough to bust anything.

[PaulE84]

Hi Doug, my new BIL is already installed, and I have put through a few hundred rounds already. I will definitely try what you have suggested, though. BTW I have a video of Alessandro disassembling and reassembling the BIL in less than a minute and he did it so easily. I have his permission to share the video and to post it online. I'm trying to figure out how to upload it on here but can't seem to. Can you assist with this? Perhaps I can send it to you somehow and you can upload it for me?

I'm currently waiting on a replacement secondary lever which broke a few days ago.

NOTE: Regarding the BIL I had it polished to see if it makes a difference particularly when it interacts with the slide. The slide also chamfered and polished. I will try marking the BIL and carrier and see what it comes back with.

[Gwhite]

It certainly doesn't hurt to polish the areas where the BIL rides on the front & back of the slide. I make sure I grease those areas. After many years & trying many different greases, I've settled on Brian Enos's "Slide Glide - Lite": https://brianenos.com/shop/slide-glide-lite-tube/
It's sticky enough to stay put better than most, and I've never had problems with it separating like many high end greases. A little tube seems expensive ($5.95 for 1/2 Oz.), but a tube lasts me a couple years. I used to use TW25B ($20 for 1.5 oz.) or Tetra Gun Grease ($12 for 1 oz.), so the price is basically the same. I've had constant problems with both separating long before I get half way through a tube.

I suspect that the forum doesn't allow posting videos. Your best bet may be to post it on YouTube, or Google drive, and then provide a link. I think I may have seen it in the past. I seem to recall that he has a trick for dealing with the detent ball, which is easy to launch.

[PaulE84]

Thanks again for the info and the suggestion of "Slide Glide".

It's likely the same video. I might consider a YouTube channel at some point.

[PaulE84]

Hi Doug, I installed my secondary release lever yesterday and it worked a charm. No fitting required thankfully, though I did notice a slight difference between both parts. Put a few hundred rounds through it and today I broke my ejector. You can’t make this stuff up, it’s unbelievable. The whole front end of the ejector completely snapped off. At this rate, I’ll break and replace every part on the gun. I’m assuming the hammer spring, firing pin, extractor or hammer will be next. Any bets on which will go first? lol… Barely 2.5k - 3k rounds and I’ve broken a BIL, secondary release lever, and now this ejector. I’ve had the gun a month. There has to be something inherently wrong with the gun that’s causing these breakages due to added stress on the parts. Something must be out of whack. I’ve been getting sporadic stove pipes and today they were happening a lot until the final break. Ejection/extraction on these guns must be a problem.

[Gwhite]

That's a new one. One of the things I've never figured out is why the Evo versions require ejecting the case so early that you can't dump out a loaded round. The original MG2's didn't have that issue. Instead, every time I've gotten a new ejector, they've made the tip longer & longer, which makes it harder & harder to clear a loaded round.

Take off the slide cover, and take a look at the back of the slide. There should be a bevel around the ejector slot to help guide the tip into the slot.
I've seen slides where the slot is significantly offset from the ejector slot in the carrier. (When you have an ejector with a tip), it should slide easily into the slot in the slide, independent of whether the slide is held to the right or the left.

Stovepipes are usually an extractor issue, and have been a big bugaboo in MG2's for at least 5 years. Some of it has to do with the shape of the extractor, but if the slide is off is some regard, there's not a lot you can do. I have close to a dozen slides the importer sent me that are useless for one reason or another. After 5 years (including a ton of time during the pandemic) I'm still researching some details.

You can do a lot to check over your extractor system while you wait for a new ejector. One possible quick fix is to the check the gap behind the extractor hook. I use tapered feeler gauges like these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B3TQQSV. The depth of the slot is usually pretty accurate, and is roughly equal to the rim thickness. If you measure the gap between the hook and the face of the slide, it works best if it's around 0.004" to 0.007". If it's bigger than that, I use tiny shims behind the rear "foot" of the extractor to tighten up that gap. Even without a feeler gauge, you should only be able to tilt a fired case a small amount to the left if the gap is right.

You also want to make sure there is enough "deflection" when it holds onto a case. When a case it slid up under the hook, it should push the extractor to the right slightly. Case & rim diameter vary from round to round, and brand to brand. You need to make sure that you have a good grip on the smallest case you might encounter. It's a bit tricky to measure, but I try to make sure I have at least 0.004" of deflection on the smallest case I can find. To increase the deflection, you need to stone down the "throat" of the extractor:

If you put black marker on the throat, you can assemble things & push the extractor back & forth from front to back. That will identify the high spot where the extractor is hitting the inside of the slot in the slide. The extractors are hard, and it can take some serious stoning to add much deflection.

The most common symptom of a poor grip on a case is trapped brass after the last shot. What's different on the last round is that there's nothing in the carrier. That allows a poorly held case to droop down, and hit the slide rail on the way out. If you clip a case under the extractor, and push down on it gently, it shouldn't be able to droop much below horizontal. Here's an example of too much droop:

One thing I do to keep track of things is to coat the bevel on the right side of the slide rail with marker EVERY time I go shooting. If everything is really tuned up well, cases should never hit the bevel on the way out. I've got over 500 rounds through my good MG2 since I last cleaned it, without a mark on the slide. If I start seeing marks up near the top, it's time for a bath. If I have a slide/extractor setup with any marks below about half way down, I know to expect the occasional jam.

You also want to coat the underside of the slide cover to see if cases are going too high. That is rare, but once your extractor has a really good grip, you can fine tune the ejection trajectory by modifying the tip of the ejector.

[PaulE84]

Again, your knowledge is invaluable, thank you, Doug. I think it's a little ridiculous that at this stage in the game we are still having to go to these lengths to get a gun running. This should have already been weeded out and taken care of at the factory years ago. I have recently been getting a noticeable number of stovepipes on the last round, so there's an obvious issue, likely with the extractor as you say. I will have a look at it later tonight as per your suggestions. I've also had a number of instances where the round doesn't full seat into battery and the back end of the case blows out and/or gets crushed, which has led to squibs. I can imagine that some of these ejection/extraction issues have led to the parts breaking, particularly the BIL. I have no desire to keep the gun, but I also can't sell it to someone with these continued issues, not at a decent price anyway. I would of course be transparent with my experience with it.

[Gwhite]

The usual cause of firing out of battery is that you get a trapped brass crosswise. That allows the slide to close enough that hammer will hit the firing pin, while holding the slide open far enough that the case will burst. I have at least a half dozen or more exploded cases from that. If there wasn't a trapped brass holding the slide open due to the round not feeding correctly, that is most likely a carrier issue.

I had tons of time during the pandemic to explore my very problematic MG2. Now that life has sort of returned to normal, I can only chip away at the remaining issues occasionally. Fortunately, I have a second one that has been relatively trouble free, and my wife's has also been pretty well behaved.