Case Neck Tension with Lead Wadcutters

[David M]

Case neck tension is critical in high powder rifle reloading, but how critical is it in pistol reloading with lead projectiles ?
How do you set your neck tension when loading .32 sw long or .38 special with wadcutters ?
Do you use the typical 0.001",0.002" or 0.003" interference method or something else ?

It seems to be a major factor in trying to get very low ES's or SD's into single figures and getting the best accuracy.
Most pistol die sets do not have a range of neck sizers, just one only with the three die set.
This can be a major pain with .32 SW Long because it can vary from .309" up to .315" bullet/barrel diameter.
What do you think is best reloading practise ?

[Gwhite]

It's been decades since I reloaded .38 Special, but my recollection was that I used a Lyman M die to expand the neck:

https://www.lymanproducts.com/pistol-ne ... ing-m-dies

Followed by a Lee taper crimp die:

https://leeprecision.com/taper-crimp-die-38spl

I never did any serious testing, but they seemed to shoot fine. This was the recommended process for "bulleye" shooters back in ~ 1980.

I have no idea if the dies are available for .32. It looks like Lee may have made a taper crimp die at one time, but all they list now it a replacement O-ring. It does appear the Lyman M die is available for .32.

[Mk4Zero]

Case neck tension is critical in high powder rifle reloading, but how critical is it in pistol reloading with lead projectiles ?
How do you set your neck tension when loading .32 sw long or .38 special with wadcutters ?
Do you use the typical 0.001",0.002" or 0.003" interference method or something else ?

It seems to be a major factor in trying to get very low ES's or SD's into single figures and getting the best accuracy.
Most pistol die sets do not have a range of neck sizers, just one only with the three die set.
This can be a major pain with .32 SW Long because it can vary from .309" up to .315" bullet/barrel diameter.
What do you think is best reloading practise ?

Having low ES AND SD doesn’t mean your bullet is accurate for pistol

You have to remember, you’re not shooting 200+ yards

I imagine most likely not shooting 100 yards

The target is so close to you that nit picking neck tension is merely an exercise in doing extra steps. The BE forums has quite a few posts on this.

Time spent on neck tension could be easily used for training fundamentals, which is most likely the issue unless you’re already cleaning the target and getting your X count up(not necessarily referencing you but anyone who tries to get they ammo uniform. Imagine spending X amount of time on 100 rounds of the perfect bullet and then throwing them away because you can’t shoot well, kind of a waste of time to me. I would want to be able to clean 25 yards easily and get 90’s on the long line before any nit picking)

[Gort]

In my experience, the crimp is more important than neck tension. In many years shooting .38 WC in PPC, I use a substantial roll crimp to retard the primer from moving the bullet before the powder has ignited. This is exasperated in small cases. To get a uniform roll crimp, case length uniformity is important. Taper crimps were designed for jacketed bullets. Gort

[Rover]

Gort's info echoes the recommendation of the NRA re: target loads.

[Ramon OP]

I agree with @mkzero. The leeway is much bigger in pistol. You will never get to shoot only tens, and you (as I) probably have too much variability in your shooting to be able to even notice any effect.

The competitive shooters I know that reload care more about lowering the loads to have less recoil and optimize for precision .

[David M]

The problem is not the 9mm, .38/.357 as neck sizers are available from .355 to .358.
But .32 is for .32 long/.32 HR mag American dies are .311, European. 314 is not catered for by any manufacturer.
I believe the source of the .32 flyer is case tension.
Years ago the RWS rep at a world cup said you either use new cases or neck anneal to help alleviate the problem.

[Gwhite]

Do shooters in Europe reload? Maybe there are dies overseas you could get.

RCBS used to be willing to make custom bullet seating dies. They might be willing to make custom dies, or know someone who can. There are "wildcat" rifle calibers that require custom made dies, so somebody must make them.

[fc60]

Greetings,

I have several sizing dies I honed for the 32 Long and 32 ACP loading process.

Different bullet diameters from 0.311" thru 0.316".

Brass varies in capacity and wall thickness among the various brands.

I select the die based on the bullet/brass being used.

i.e. If the loaded cartridge diameter measures 0.335", I size the brass case to 0.335".

After several hundred test targets at 50 yards with the 32 Long, it is my opinion that the fliers are caused by a defect in the bullet.

Chronograph tests often show the best groups do not have the best Standard Deviation nor Extreme Spread. I now use the chronograph to measure the Average velocities.

I have been testing 32 barrels and ammo since 1994 and have quite a collection of test targets.

Cheers,

Dave

[David M]

38 Special not a problem, Manurhin Revolver .38 Special Match, machine rest group at 25m measures 18-22mm outside to outside.
Cast 134g button nose, bevel base wadcutter at 720 fps. Group at 50 yds 45-50mm.

My Walther GSP500 .32 barrel slugs in at .3125".
So I cast/sized both .313 and .314 90g wadcutters, the .313's feel better to shoot and have a tighter group.
When the cases are sized for .313" (home turned sizer) this gives about 0.001" to 0.0015" spring back and neck tension, and allows
to push projectile into case about 20% with firm thumb pressure.
This increased the velocity about 25 fps and reduced the SD's over the larger 0.314 sizer.
90g BNWC cast at 5% SN, 0.313" , home moly lube and loaded with 1.8g Bullseye gives 745 fps/225 m/s.
The increased neck tension seems to help and will alow me to reduce the powder load to 1.7g and get closer to 720 fps/ 220 m/s.
Might try turning up some custom "M" style stepped sizers at 0.313/0.315, see what happens ?

The factory die was useless at .311, bulged the case and squashed the projectile.

[w4ti]

The way I happen to interpret your question is: whether or not repeated use of a case changes it in such a way that eventually, the case will lose some inherent accuracy potential. I've done a little research into the question, which shows up in a way than you might not ordinarily think, here:

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t20517-le ... -lubricant

I have also sent some pistol brass off to NZ in order check for hardness change over time, or in this case, number of firings. The results were promising, but I'm still trying to find another (free) source here (US) to confirm the original NZ findings.

Remember, it was just one experiment, not making any big claims of any sort, etc. etc.

Best,
Chase

[David M]

A interesting discussion on " Re: Leftover carbon inside cases does not act like a lubricant".
I generally reload using a light spray of "Mister Sheen" furniture wax as the cases are tipped into the
case feeder, so a light coating helps lube the cases inside and out. Very easy on the press.

My home made bullet lube has a small amount of moly in it, so any residue will also lube the case.
Turning up bullet expanders I use 316 Stainless Steel as it age hardens and polishes well.
The more you use it the harder it gets.