25m RFP Proposed changes

[j-team]

Just saw this in an ISSF newsletter:

"Gerardo Trotta Arnone, chair of the ISSF Pistol Committee, told ISSF: “Some of the topics
discussed could be important for the future of our sport, such as presenting results in a
more friendly way for a better understanding and more exciting final competition, as well as
the introduction of important changes in 25m RFP".

Anyone know what they are planning to change?

So glad I've finished my competitive days... BTW, loved the .22short era!

[Dr. Jim]

Rule changes for RF seem to be the norm, personally I’d like to go back to the original form as well. I too loved the .22 short. Still have one of the margolin pistols I modified for it. Destined for the scrap heap of history, or the smelter if the Canuck Ottawa idiots have their way.
Cheers, thanks for the memory!

Dr Jim

[dino911]

Spencer ??

[john bickar]

Having been involved in this sport for going on three decades, ISSF seems hell-bent on destroying Rapid Fire Pistol.

"Start from zero" in the finals is straight garbage.

"...presenting results in a more friendly way for a better understanding and more exciting final competition" - give me a freakin' break. That's a mealy-mouthed way of saying that it's going to be watered down. Again.

[JamesH]

No other sport accumulates points from the qualification stage, its all about the finals.
Too bad.

[j-team]

No other sport accumulates points from the qualification stage, its all about the finals.
Too bad.

What other sport(s) have a final that is a different format/scoring system to qualification?

[Grippy]

The funny thing is that most ISSF shooting events don't have finals. Only Olympic ones do. Because I guess they are desperate for their 15minutes of mainstream media coverage that gets them every four years?

[K38]

It’s strange but in archery compound bow has single elimination finals just as Olympic recurve does. Even though compound is not an Olympic event. But wait, it gets stranger! Recurve shoots at 70 meters at a 122cm face in three arrow ends .using a set system like tennis. Two points for winning a set and one point for a tie. Six points wins the match. In the event of a six six tie it goes to a one arrow shoot off closest to the center wins. Compound shoots an 80 cm face at 50 meters 15 arrow matches cumulative score in ends of three arrows. Same one arrow shoot off for a tie. It’s actually a lot more fun to watch than the ISSF finals. Take a look on YouTube and see what you think. It would be a blast with any of the pistol classes.

[JamesH]

What other sport(s) have a final that is a different format/scoring system to qualification?

That wasn't the issue, it was starting from zero

"Start from zero" in the finals is straight garbage."

Every sport starts from zero in the finals.

[Grippy]

Those two things are clearly connected though? If the finals would add on top of the qualification results (as was the case once) it becomes less jarring that the format changes. Or if the finals were the same as the qualification starting at zero would be reasonable because they both test the same thing.

But if you reset to zero it's weird to also effectively change the event. Also you can be out after relatively few shots. Which just makes it more arbitrary. It's like running a marathon and then putting the top 8 into a 400m hurdles race to determine the winner (i guess that's a slight exaggeration but you get the point).

[JamesH]

I can see the point, but a better analogy would be for 800m qualification and final to be over 400m.

What might make sense would be to have

8s x2
6s x2
4s x2
4sx1 - Eliminate #8
4sx1 - Eliminate #7
Etc.

That would build a bit of interest, suspense etc. spectators can see it getting harder and the scores starting to dip.

I think the finals system, with progressive elimination, is actually better than having everyone shoot the whole match and the score totaled at the end.

[RMar]

If USA shooting recorded its last board meeting, listen to it to hear the plan for RFP in LA2028. Digging for information after that call, which only touched on the topic superficially, RFP will be eliminated but possibly replaced by a men’s version of sport, maybe using the standard pistol course of fire. While I don’t agree with the change, that will undoubtedly increase participation in the US. The event is shot in collegiate pistol and it will be an easy transition for bullseye shooters.

[Azmodan]

so.. sport pistol (the event shot by women) or standard pistol? they are 2 totally different events..

RFP will be eliminated but possibly replaced by a men’s version of sport, maybe using the standard pistol course of fire.

[RMar]

Let’s presume we all know the difference between WSP and Standard Pistol. I did share that a source said a “version” of… The important point is to spread the word.

[Gwhite]

They have traditionally avoided having the men & women shoot directly comparable events. That makes me suspect it will be less "Sport-like" and more "Standard-like". It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. US collegiate .22 competition has been Standard Pistol and Sport Pistol for quite some time. Everyone shoots both events. No specific men's or women's events. We also used to shoot Free Pistol, but it made the matches take a LONG time. They used the elimination of Free from the Olympic program as an excuse to kill it at the collegiate level, which I personally think is a shame.

[Azmodan]

why? all other events are now exactly the same.
junior men are shooting sport pistol. but when they turn 21, they must stop shooting it (or move on to center fire)...

They have traditionally avoided having the men & women shoot directly comparable events.

there are now four 25m pistol events: SP, CFP, STP and RFP. adding a 5th one would not help at all.

[JamesH]

If everyone, men, women, juniors, shot a single target 25m .22 event that would make a lot of sense, make olympic shooting much more accessible and comprehensible.

Sport pistol or standard, I don't care - although the rapid part of sport is probably a lot easier for a spectator to follow and make sense of, and less of a blaze of gunfire.

[Grippy]

I'd strongly suspect it will be 25m pistol. The precedent of different Womens and Mens events is mostly gone by now. The rifle events are the same as is air pistol. Also at least from my anecdotal observation in Switzerland and Surrounding countries it's the most common .22 pistol event even for men. RF basically doesn't exist in the amateur space and no one bothers with center fire unless they have to.

Standard would be funny and I'd welcome it. But isn't that exotic almost everywhere? Replacing one exotic event with another at the Olympics would seem like an odd move. I feel whenever we talk about "appealing to the spectators" the reality in target shooting is that the spectators are shooters themselves. So the best choice would be an event that ISSF shooting amateurs partake in (a bar which RF fails hilariously). Everyone else only sees the sport once for two minutes every four years in the summary segment of some Olympic broadcast.

[Mike M.]

I love RF, but the sad fact is that it's damned near impossible to find a target bay. Men's Sport Pistol would make it MUCH easier to find ranges - you could even go with a portable turning target rig (that fits into the trunk of a car).

[JamesH]

Just being able to have the top 8 able to shoot simultaneously instead of two relays of four would be a bonus.

Pretty well any range can accommodate sport.