Howdy Y'all,
I need your help. Pardon my ignorance. I'm new to this message board.
I shoot hardball leg matches. (A Les Baer DCM and a Cold 70 series that puts two inch groups at 50 yards). Nothing but bullseye. I still have great interest in shooting my .45s, but now I would like to move on to a different, more challenging pasture: I am researching as much as I can, but information about free pistols is fairly limited.
Would y'all be so kind as to respond to my question about the Hammerli FP 10 Free Pistol? I know, initially, it had bad press. But that was some time ago. I am dedicated to buying a fine free pistol, but, I confess, I know very little. I've only had the opportunity to shoot a Hammerli FP 10 twice, from a high master shooter and my coach, and it was exhilirating beyond my dreams. What a fantastic discipline?
As it stands, I am attracted to the Hammerli FP 10. I know they worked out the initial kinks in the pistol--mechanical problems, below par accuracy--but how are they now? I've been told it is perfect, and I am also told it does not live up to the bill. I'm very confused. I am anxious to purchase a free pistol soon, but I cannot make costly mistake, as I am on a medical leave and have the time to dedicate to this new discipline. I would like to have purchased a Hammerli Speical 160--does anybody have one NIB they would like to part with?--but, alas, they are not making them anymore. Also, what about the Hammerli 162, with the electronic trigger? I have found one.
The FP 10 seems to be the flagship. Would y'all be so kind as to give me your biased/non-biased opinions on the FP 10. Please don't hold back. I have one on hold, but I do not feel comfortable puttin' cash on the barrel head until until I hear from the educated opinions of the folks on this message board. If y'all could, please respond at your earliest opportunity. I am anxious and excited and would like to make the move. I have my heart set on the FP-10, but I, clearly, am biased and my judgement is clouded.
Thank you very kindly in advance, and I look forward to making some kind friends on this message board.
Best wishes in the New Year,
Sincerely,
Matthew Ebnet
mattebnet-at-yahoo.com.48328.0
Hammerli FP 10--Good or Bad?
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
Mark.
Re: Hammerli FP 10--Good or Bad?
Hi Matthew,
The last remaining bugs in the FP10 are the trigger and front sight. Some FP10's were shipped with front sights that were too short. If memory serves, you need an 18mm tall front sight in order to be able to shoot a sub-6 hold at 50m. Some pistols were shipped with 15mm sights - not good unless you are shooting centre-hold (or don't mind aiming at the top of the target). Make sure your dealer has the appropriate front sight installed to suit your point of aim.
As for the trigger, Hammerli has serious quality problems in this department. I shoot with an internationlly-competitive shooter who owns and FP10, and it was quite a saga getting it to work properly. Hammerli was initially uncooperative, wouldn't admit to there being a problem with the trigger, wanted the gun shipped back to them, etc etc etc. They were finally embarassed into sending a replacement trigger unit, which now works perfectly.
I would NOT buy an FP10 without ensuring it has the "new" trigger assembly in it. It's easy to tell which trigger is in the gun. Strip out the trigger assembly and look at its side plate. If you see three miniature roller bearings on three shafts, you've got a good one. Any less than three shafts on bearings and I'd demand the trigger be replaced or walk away from the gun.
The trigger with the three roller bearings is probably the best mechanical trigger on a modern free pistol - it is very good and even allows for adjustment as a two-stage trigger. The older trigger units have draw weights that vary for unknown reasons, and will eventually cause you to have an unintentional discharge. They're just not reliable. Heck, they're not even safe.
I've made a very strong statement of opinion here, based on fairly intimate knowledge of one pistol in particular, and of three others imported to our country which have experienced similar failings. I was visiting my local dealer this week and he showed me a replacement trigger which Hammerli had sent for another shooter complaining of the same problem. It was once again a "single bearing" trigger, the same as the one that caused the problems in the first place. And to boot, it was incorrectly assembled, straight from the factory. If you don't get the 3-bearing design, I'd say don't buy the gun. If you do get the 3-bearing design, then you've got one of the best FP's going.
Mark.
.48333.48328
The last remaining bugs in the FP10 are the trigger and front sight. Some FP10's were shipped with front sights that were too short. If memory serves, you need an 18mm tall front sight in order to be able to shoot a sub-6 hold at 50m. Some pistols were shipped with 15mm sights - not good unless you are shooting centre-hold (or don't mind aiming at the top of the target). Make sure your dealer has the appropriate front sight installed to suit your point of aim.
As for the trigger, Hammerli has serious quality problems in this department. I shoot with an internationlly-competitive shooter who owns and FP10, and it was quite a saga getting it to work properly. Hammerli was initially uncooperative, wouldn't admit to there being a problem with the trigger, wanted the gun shipped back to them, etc etc etc. They were finally embarassed into sending a replacement trigger unit, which now works perfectly.
I would NOT buy an FP10 without ensuring it has the "new" trigger assembly in it. It's easy to tell which trigger is in the gun. Strip out the trigger assembly and look at its side plate. If you see three miniature roller bearings on three shafts, you've got a good one. Any less than three shafts on bearings and I'd demand the trigger be replaced or walk away from the gun.
The trigger with the three roller bearings is probably the best mechanical trigger on a modern free pistol - it is very good and even allows for adjustment as a two-stage trigger. The older trigger units have draw weights that vary for unknown reasons, and will eventually cause you to have an unintentional discharge. They're just not reliable. Heck, they're not even safe.
I've made a very strong statement of opinion here, based on fairly intimate knowledge of one pistol in particular, and of three others imported to our country which have experienced similar failings. I was visiting my local dealer this week and he showed me a replacement trigger which Hammerli had sent for another shooter complaining of the same problem. It was once again a "single bearing" trigger, the same as the one that caused the problems in the first place. And to boot, it was incorrectly assembled, straight from the factory. If you don't get the 3-bearing design, I'd say don't buy the gun. If you do get the 3-bearing design, then you've got one of the best FP's going.
Mark.
.48333.48328
-
Ian
Re: Hammerli FP 10--Good or Bad?
: Howdy Y'all,
: I need your help. Pardon my ignorance. I'm new to this message board.
: I shoot hardball leg matches. (A Les Baer DCM and a Cold 70 series that puts two inch groups at 50 yards). Nothing but bullseye. I still have great interest in shooting my .45s, but now I would like to move on to a different, more challenging pasture: I am researching as much as I can, but information about free pistols is fairly limited.
: Would y'all be so kind as to respond to my question about the Hammerli FP 10 Free Pistol? I know, initially, it had bad press. But that was some time ago. I am dedicated to buying a fine free pistol, but, I confess, I know very little. I've only had the opportunity to shoot a Hammerli FP 10 twice, from a high master shooter and my coach, and it was exhilirating beyond my dreams. What a fantastic discipline?
: As it stands, I am attracted to the Hammerli FP 10. I know they worked out the initial kinks in the pistol--mechanical problems, below par accuracy--but how are they now? I've been told it is perfect, and I am also told it does not live up to the bill. I'm very confused. I am anxious to purchase a free pistol soon, but I cannot make costly mistake, as I am on a medical leave and have the time to dedicate to this new discipline. I would like to have purchased a Hammerli Speical 160--does anybody have one NIB they would like to part with?--but, alas, they are not making them anymore. Also, what about the Hammerli 162, with the electronic trigger? I have found one.
: The FP 10 seems to be the flagship. Would y'all be so kind as to give me your biased/non-biased opinions on the FP 10. Please don't hold back. I have one on hold, but I do not feel comfortable puttin' cash on the barrel head until until I hear from the educated opinions of the folks on this message board. If y'all could, please respond at your earliest opportunity. I am anxious and excited and would like to make the move. I have my heart set on the FP-10, but I, clearly, am biased and my judgement is clouded.
: Thank you very kindly in advance, and I look forward to making some kind friends on this message board.
: Best wishes in the New Year,
: Sincerely,
: Matthew Ebnet
Matt,
I would not look at the Hammerli FP10, if I were you.
For the same amount of money you can get a far better and more reliable free pistol. If you want to stay up with the state-of-the-art then your choice is pretty much clear. Your would have to be the Morini CM84E.
If you are just getting into shooting Free Pistol and you want to try it out, then I would recommend the TOZ35M.
Another choice might be to look for an older Hammerli like the 150 or 152, if you want an electric trigger.
But as my father always says "opinions are like belly bottens, everyones has one." So now you have mine.
Keep'em all in the ten ring,
Ian
macabiah-at-yahoo.com.48357.48328
: I need your help. Pardon my ignorance. I'm new to this message board.
: I shoot hardball leg matches. (A Les Baer DCM and a Cold 70 series that puts two inch groups at 50 yards). Nothing but bullseye. I still have great interest in shooting my .45s, but now I would like to move on to a different, more challenging pasture: I am researching as much as I can, but information about free pistols is fairly limited.
: Would y'all be so kind as to respond to my question about the Hammerli FP 10 Free Pistol? I know, initially, it had bad press. But that was some time ago. I am dedicated to buying a fine free pistol, but, I confess, I know very little. I've only had the opportunity to shoot a Hammerli FP 10 twice, from a high master shooter and my coach, and it was exhilirating beyond my dreams. What a fantastic discipline?
: As it stands, I am attracted to the Hammerli FP 10. I know they worked out the initial kinks in the pistol--mechanical problems, below par accuracy--but how are they now? I've been told it is perfect, and I am also told it does not live up to the bill. I'm very confused. I am anxious to purchase a free pistol soon, but I cannot make costly mistake, as I am on a medical leave and have the time to dedicate to this new discipline. I would like to have purchased a Hammerli Speical 160--does anybody have one NIB they would like to part with?--but, alas, they are not making them anymore. Also, what about the Hammerli 162, with the electronic trigger? I have found one.
: The FP 10 seems to be the flagship. Would y'all be so kind as to give me your biased/non-biased opinions on the FP 10. Please don't hold back. I have one on hold, but I do not feel comfortable puttin' cash on the barrel head until until I hear from the educated opinions of the folks on this message board. If y'all could, please respond at your earliest opportunity. I am anxious and excited and would like to make the move. I have my heart set on the FP-10, but I, clearly, am biased and my judgement is clouded.
: Thank you very kindly in advance, and I look forward to making some kind friends on this message board.
: Best wishes in the New Year,
: Sincerely,
: Matthew Ebnet
Matt,
I would not look at the Hammerli FP10, if I were you.
For the same amount of money you can get a far better and more reliable free pistol. If you want to stay up with the state-of-the-art then your choice is pretty much clear. Your would have to be the Morini CM84E.
If you are just getting into shooting Free Pistol and you want to try it out, then I would recommend the TOZ35M.
Another choice might be to look for an older Hammerli like the 150 or 152, if you want an electric trigger.
But as my father always says "opinions are like belly bottens, everyones has one." So now you have mine.
Keep'em all in the ten ring,
Ian
macabiah-at-yahoo.com.48357.48328
-
Bob Riegl
Re: Hammerli FP 10--Good or Bad?
The comments about the FP-10 (MG-5??) are quite cogent arguments for avoiding the gun. The "IF" factors are too convincing to make any other decision. I have seen the original FP-10 in use and they were and are quite simply put "AWFUL". Some "fixes" have taken place and supposedly have made the gun into a "genius" shooter. If you want to get into the game full tilt and not only get your feet dampemed---then MORINI 84E or TOZ35M. The 160 Specials no longer exist ( I love mine or I would sell it and get a Morini 84E)) but you may find a 160 Special for sale---I haven't seen one offered for sale to this date. BTW the FP-10 "was" not manufactured by Hammerli---words have HINTED it was Morini????? All in all I think that there is only one Hammerli dealer that may sell the FP-10 as Larry Carter does not even advertise it.
fishnshoot-at-optonline.net.48358.48328
fishnshoot-at-optonline.net.48358.48328
-
Barry
Think SAM not Morini, involved w/FP-10, nt.
: The comments about the FP-10 (MG-5??) are quite cogent arguments for avoiding the gun. The "IF" factors are too convincing to make any other decision. I have seen the original FP-10 in use and they were and are quite simply put "AWFUL". Some "fixes" have taken place and supposedly have made the gun into a "genius" shooter. If you want to get into the game full tilt and not only get your feet dampemed---then MORINI 84E or TOZ35M. The 160 Specials no longer exist ( I love mine or I would sell it and get a Morini 84E)) but you may find a 160 Special for sale---I haven't seen one offered for sale to this date. BTW the FP-10 "was" not manufactured by Hammerli---words have HINTED it was Morini????? All in all I think that there is only one Hammerli dealer that may sell the FP-10 as Larry Carter does not even advertise it.
newsphotohi-at-hawaii.rr.com.48361.48358
newsphotohi-at-hawaii.rr.com.48361.48358
-
Jim
Re: Hammerli FP 10--Good or Bad?
Hi Matthew,
With your experience, I think you need the best FP you can get. The Hammerli FP 10 has its problems. So does the SP 20. I'm guessing they're just not the same company since SIGARMS (I think) bought them a couple years ago. I would strongly encourage you to contact Larry Carter (www.larrysguns.com) as he knows Hammerlis, old and new. I believe he does not sell the FP 10. He was running special prices on the discontinued 160 and 162. The 160/162 are great but parts are very expensive. The older 150/151/152 are equally fine guns (and look a bit nicer IMHO) and parts are affordable by comparison. All these guns are reliable (the parts prices may be a non-issue therefore), accurate, nicely made and user friendly.
Glad you are getting into Free Pistol.
Jim
james.buckland-at-converse.edu.48379.48328
With your experience, I think you need the best FP you can get. The Hammerli FP 10 has its problems. So does the SP 20. I'm guessing they're just not the same company since SIGARMS (I think) bought them a couple years ago. I would strongly encourage you to contact Larry Carter (www.larrysguns.com) as he knows Hammerlis, old and new. I believe he does not sell the FP 10. He was running special prices on the discontinued 160 and 162. The 160/162 are great but parts are very expensive. The older 150/151/152 are equally fine guns (and look a bit nicer IMHO) and parts are affordable by comparison. All these guns are reliable (the parts prices may be a non-issue therefore), accurate, nicely made and user friendly.
Glad you are getting into Free Pistol.
Jim
james.buckland-at-converse.edu.48379.48328
-
Paul
Re: Hammerli FP 10--Good or Bad?
I was told the FP10 was made by SAM, this is corroborated by some common parts and very similar design. I believe Mr. Morini was involved in design (not to be confused with Francesco who for him is irritatingly often called by this name on TargetTalk!).
I was also advised the FP10 was discontinued and that this was due to some issue between SAM and Hammerli. I don’t know the full details but I also understand SAM produce the Hammerli air pistols, the AP40 range.
Apparently, Hammerli has stocks of the FP10, albeit modified but have resurrected the Hammerli 160 special edition without an electronic variant option for their model line-up. This point has not been evidenced in sales literature albeit sparse.
Importantly, if you like the balance and shoots well in your hand, then the FP10 could be a good choice. I hope you also get a chance to shoot other pistols so you can form your own opinion. I personally like the Toz and 84e with the 84e being my favourite. The Pardini was a close third but I have over several years had the opportunity to shoot for a couple of matches or own several other brands including the Hammerli 150/152/162.
I would reserve some money for good optics if needed and grip customizations. For free pistol, these have to rate higher factors above manufacturer issues that through some spares or knowledge of spares/gunsmith expertise, these are less significant.
I hope you have fun selecting and then shooting free pistol.
.48380.48328
I was also advised the FP10 was discontinued and that this was due to some issue between SAM and Hammerli. I don’t know the full details but I also understand SAM produce the Hammerli air pistols, the AP40 range.
Apparently, Hammerli has stocks of the FP10, albeit modified but have resurrected the Hammerli 160 special edition without an electronic variant option for their model line-up. This point has not been evidenced in sales literature albeit sparse.
Importantly, if you like the balance and shoots well in your hand, then the FP10 could be a good choice. I hope you also get a chance to shoot other pistols so you can form your own opinion. I personally like the Toz and 84e with the 84e being my favourite. The Pardini was a close third but I have over several years had the opportunity to shoot for a couple of matches or own several other brands including the Hammerli 150/152/162.
I would reserve some money for good optics if needed and grip customizations. For free pistol, these have to rate higher factors above manufacturer issues that through some spares or knowledge of spares/gunsmith expertise, these are less significant.
I hope you have fun selecting and then shooting free pistol.
.48380.48328
-
Matvei
Re: Hammerli FP 10--Good or Bad?
I think here are too many opinions from those only have heard the problems with FP-10. I have owned one since July last year, and I am still waiting for the first malfunction. The gun stands like a rock. The counterbalansing rods are excellent to improve the stability while sighting and forgive bad shots.
The gun truly is made by SAM (Swiss Arms Manufacturing), and I have not heard yet, that the production of FP10 is suspended or ceased. Sure the CM84E is the main brand at shooting ranges, but so was TOZ some years ago. Times change and so will the products.
Somebody belowe assumed that FP10 is designed by Mr. Cesare Morini. In the grip there is written "Cesare", and if you look at Matchgun's MG5, you probably get a deja vu ( I have seen this somewhere).
Your is the choice, but if I right now had to make my decision between FP10 and CM84 it would tahe FP10 in any case.
: Howdy Y'all,
: I need your help. Pardon my ignorance. I'm new to this message board.
: I shoot hardball leg matches. (A Les Baer DCM and a Cold 70 series that puts two inch groups at 50 yards). Nothing but bullseye. I still have great interest in shooting my .45s, but now I would like to move on to a different, more challenging pasture: I am researching as much as I can, but information about free pistols is fairly limited.
: Would y'all be so kind as to respond to my question about the Hammerli FP 10 Free Pistol? I know, initially, it had bad press. But that was some time ago. I am dedicated to buying a fine free pistol, but, I confess, I know very little. I've only had the opportunity to shoot a Hammerli FP 10 twice, from a high master shooter and my coach, and it was exhilirating beyond my dreams. What a fantastic discipline?
: As it stands, I am attracted to the Hammerli FP 10. I know they worked out the initial kinks in the pistol--mechanical problems, below par accuracy--but how are they now? I've been told it is perfect, and I am also told it does not live up to the bill. I'm very confused. I am anxious to purchase a free pistol soon, but I cannot make costly mistake, as I am on a medical leave and have the time to dedicate to this new discipline. I would like to have purchased a Hammerli Speical 160--does anybody have one NIB they would like to part with?--but, alas, they are not making them anymore. Also, what about the Hammerli 162, with the electronic trigger? I have found one.
: The FP 10 seems to be the flagship. Would y'all be so kind as to give me your biased/non-biased opinions on the FP 10. Please don't hold back. I have one on hold, but I do not feel comfortable puttin' cash on the barrel head until until I hear from the educated opinions of the folks on this message board. If y'all could, please respond at your earliest opportunity. I am anxious and excited and would like to make the move. I have my heart set on the FP-10, but I, clearly, am biased and my judgement is clouded.
: Thank you very kindly in advance, and I look forward to making some kind friends on this message board.
: Best wishes in the New Year,
: Sincerely,
: Matthew Ebnet
Matti_Tarvainen-at-hotmail.com.48462.48328
The gun truly is made by SAM (Swiss Arms Manufacturing), and I have not heard yet, that the production of FP10 is suspended or ceased. Sure the CM84E is the main brand at shooting ranges, but so was TOZ some years ago. Times change and so will the products.
Somebody belowe assumed that FP10 is designed by Mr. Cesare Morini. In the grip there is written "Cesare", and if you look at Matchgun's MG5, you probably get a deja vu ( I have seen this somewhere).
Your is the choice, but if I right now had to make my decision between FP10 and CM84 it would tahe FP10 in any case.
: Howdy Y'all,
: I need your help. Pardon my ignorance. I'm new to this message board.
: I shoot hardball leg matches. (A Les Baer DCM and a Cold 70 series that puts two inch groups at 50 yards). Nothing but bullseye. I still have great interest in shooting my .45s, but now I would like to move on to a different, more challenging pasture: I am researching as much as I can, but information about free pistols is fairly limited.
: Would y'all be so kind as to respond to my question about the Hammerli FP 10 Free Pistol? I know, initially, it had bad press. But that was some time ago. I am dedicated to buying a fine free pistol, but, I confess, I know very little. I've only had the opportunity to shoot a Hammerli FP 10 twice, from a high master shooter and my coach, and it was exhilirating beyond my dreams. What a fantastic discipline?
: As it stands, I am attracted to the Hammerli FP 10. I know they worked out the initial kinks in the pistol--mechanical problems, below par accuracy--but how are they now? I've been told it is perfect, and I am also told it does not live up to the bill. I'm very confused. I am anxious to purchase a free pistol soon, but I cannot make costly mistake, as I am on a medical leave and have the time to dedicate to this new discipline. I would like to have purchased a Hammerli Speical 160--does anybody have one NIB they would like to part with?--but, alas, they are not making them anymore. Also, what about the Hammerli 162, with the electronic trigger? I have found one.
: The FP 10 seems to be the flagship. Would y'all be so kind as to give me your biased/non-biased opinions on the FP 10. Please don't hold back. I have one on hold, but I do not feel comfortable puttin' cash on the barrel head until until I hear from the educated opinions of the folks on this message board. If y'all could, please respond at your earliest opportunity. I am anxious and excited and would like to make the move. I have my heart set on the FP-10, but I, clearly, am biased and my judgement is clouded.
: Thank you very kindly in advance, and I look forward to making some kind friends on this message board.
: Best wishes in the New Year,
: Sincerely,
: Matthew Ebnet
Matti_Tarvainen-at-hotmail.com.48462.48328