Quote....
The medical evidence is well known by those who pay attention
If the medical evidence is well known???
Would you be so kind as to point out a web site that states medical evidence trials on athletes? specifically shooting sports.
Trev
.48326.48302
Rifle Shooting Clothing
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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Trev
Re: Rifle Shooting Clothing
: : : It looks like a "dun deal" to me.
: : So, where is the medical evidence then? Which peer-group medical and/or sport science journals is it published in? Last time I looked progress is not defined by turning the clock back to when the administrators were young.
: : Come on US shooters, Mr Anderson is one of yours, put him on the spot and make him answerable to you! He's sure not listening to shooters anywhere else in the world.
:
: ---
: He wrote the article, not the rule!
: As much as people may dislike the change, it does make sense and is for the best. Short term "pain" at first, but long term best.
: The medical evidence is well known by those who pay attention... athletes who use extreme positions and do not do any physical training for their back hurt their back... with or without the pants. Athletes who do the right thing don't hurt their back... even when not using any stiff pants as with many young athletes.
: Read the entire article again, very carefully without emotion. It makes sense.
: Get over it.
If the medical evidence is well known???
Would you be so kind as to point out a web site that states medical evidence trials on athletes? specifically shooting sports.
Trev
.48327.48323
: : So, where is the medical evidence then? Which peer-group medical and/or sport science journals is it published in? Last time I looked progress is not defined by turning the clock back to when the administrators were young.
: : Come on US shooters, Mr Anderson is one of yours, put him on the spot and make him answerable to you! He's sure not listening to shooters anywhere else in the world.
:
: ---
: He wrote the article, not the rule!
: As much as people may dislike the change, it does make sense and is for the best. Short term "pain" at first, but long term best.
: The medical evidence is well known by those who pay attention... athletes who use extreme positions and do not do any physical training for their back hurt their back... with or without the pants. Athletes who do the right thing don't hurt their back... even when not using any stiff pants as with many young athletes.
: Read the entire article again, very carefully without emotion. It makes sense.
: Get over it.
If the medical evidence is well known???
Would you be so kind as to point out a web site that states medical evidence trials on athletes? specifically shooting sports.
Trev
.48327.48323
-
Mac
Re: Rifle Shooting Clothing
: : : It looks like a "dun deal" to me.
: : So, where is the medical evidence then? Which peer-group medical and/or sport science journals is it published in? Last time I looked progress is not defined by turning the clock back to when the administrators were young.
: : Come on US shooters, Mr Anderson is one of yours, put him on the spot and make him answerable to you! He's sure not listening to shooters anywhere else in the world.
:
: ---
: He wrote the article, not the rule!
So, who wrote the rule then? Who within the ISSF is sponsoring this?
: As much as people may dislike the change, it does make sense and is for the best. Short term "pain" at first, but long term best.
Absolute rubbish. It makes no sense, and will only damage the sport. We will not get more media coverage because of this as the opposition to shooting is based on ignorance and political bias - especially in the US & UK. We will not get more shooters because of this, but we will lose thousands of recreational shooters who are the lifeblood of the sport. What advantages are we going to get?
: The medical evidence is well known by those who pay attention... athletes who use extreme positions and do not do any physical training for their back hurt their back... with or without the pants. Athletes who do the right thing don't hurt their back... even when not using any stiff pants as with many young athletes.
I've been doing this game long enough, and I do pay attention. As I said before, show me where the evidence is published, in a peer-reviewed journal or equivalent. Nothing else should be considered valid. I've seen something touted by an ISSF official as "evidence" and it is nothing of the kind - it is purely the opinion of one man, and as such means absolutely nothing.
Show me where the criteria for the success of this change are defined, and the metrics which will be used to measure it. If those are not in place then this change cannot be allowed to go through. Currently it seems to be nothing more than the whim of some "elder statesmen" who want to see the clock turned back to when they were young.
: Read the entire article again, very carefully without emotion. It makes sense.
I've read the article many times, and there are holes in the argument big enough to drive a truck through.
: Get over it.
No - I agree with Rajmond Debevec (the current Olympic 3x40 Champion and World Record Holder). We cannot give up this without a fight, the ISSF must listen to it's athletes.
.48329.48323
: : So, where is the medical evidence then? Which peer-group medical and/or sport science journals is it published in? Last time I looked progress is not defined by turning the clock back to when the administrators were young.
: : Come on US shooters, Mr Anderson is one of yours, put him on the spot and make him answerable to you! He's sure not listening to shooters anywhere else in the world.
:
: ---
: He wrote the article, not the rule!
So, who wrote the rule then? Who within the ISSF is sponsoring this?
: As much as people may dislike the change, it does make sense and is for the best. Short term "pain" at first, but long term best.
Absolute rubbish. It makes no sense, and will only damage the sport. We will not get more media coverage because of this as the opposition to shooting is based on ignorance and political bias - especially in the US & UK. We will not get more shooters because of this, but we will lose thousands of recreational shooters who are the lifeblood of the sport. What advantages are we going to get?
: The medical evidence is well known by those who pay attention... athletes who use extreme positions and do not do any physical training for their back hurt their back... with or without the pants. Athletes who do the right thing don't hurt their back... even when not using any stiff pants as with many young athletes.
I've been doing this game long enough, and I do pay attention. As I said before, show me where the evidence is published, in a peer-reviewed journal or equivalent. Nothing else should be considered valid. I've seen something touted by an ISSF official as "evidence" and it is nothing of the kind - it is purely the opinion of one man, and as such means absolutely nothing.
Show me where the criteria for the success of this change are defined, and the metrics which will be used to measure it. If those are not in place then this change cannot be allowed to go through. Currently it seems to be nothing more than the whim of some "elder statesmen" who want to see the clock turned back to when they were young.
: Read the entire article again, very carefully without emotion. It makes sense.
I've read the article many times, and there are holes in the argument big enough to drive a truck through.
: Get over it.
No - I agree with Rajmond Debevec (the current Olympic 3x40 Champion and World Record Holder). We cannot give up this without a fight, the ISSF must listen to it's athletes.
.48329.48323
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akihmsa
Re: Rifle Shooting Clothing
I have no problem with a handicap area of competition where you allow an old guy with bad eyes and no muscle tone to use aids such as red dot sights or telescopes and some type of aid to support the weight his muscles can no longer deal with. However you should leave an area open to those who do not have those problems and do not wish to spend more money on equipment just to stay in the same place competitively.
Perhaps it is time for polevaulters to move into the 21st century and allow rocket propelled poles for those who are getting older too?: : Hi Mike
: : The Shooting sports have been catering to the old guys maybe a bit too much with red dots dominating Bullseye and too many supports. Most likely you'll find you do just fine without all the extras and the sports will get a bit less costly in the bargain. Just a thought from another old guy ;~) Will they give us a chair to shoot off hand from next?:
: This may happen in the USA but it doesn't happen here (Australia). In my view the shooting sports should be able to accommodate everyone from fit junior to decrepit old bloke with severe physical disadvantages. You won't get a supportive infrastructure by restricting the sports to the perfectly fit only.
: It's about time the shooting sports moved into the 21st century and went more to optical and electronic sights rather than limiting people to old fashioned apertures, which suit people with perfect vision but aren't a lot of fun for those with eye defects, prescription lenses notwithstanding.
: For the purists out there who are starting to go red in the face at this suggestion, perhaps we should be doing all of our shooting using matchlocks instead of modern rifles and ammo, just to be consistent in our approach. If it's OK to use the latest and best in rifles and ammo, why doesn't the same hold true for sights etc?
.48341.48310
Perhaps it is time for polevaulters to move into the 21st century and allow rocket propelled poles for those who are getting older too?: : Hi Mike
: : The Shooting sports have been catering to the old guys maybe a bit too much with red dots dominating Bullseye and too many supports. Most likely you'll find you do just fine without all the extras and the sports will get a bit less costly in the bargain. Just a thought from another old guy ;~) Will they give us a chair to shoot off hand from next?:
: This may happen in the USA but it doesn't happen here (Australia). In my view the shooting sports should be able to accommodate everyone from fit junior to decrepit old bloke with severe physical disadvantages. You won't get a supportive infrastructure by restricting the sports to the perfectly fit only.
: It's about time the shooting sports moved into the 21st century and went more to optical and electronic sights rather than limiting people to old fashioned apertures, which suit people with perfect vision but aren't a lot of fun for those with eye defects, prescription lenses notwithstanding.
: For the purists out there who are starting to go red in the face at this suggestion, perhaps we should be doing all of our shooting using matchlocks instead of modern rifles and ammo, just to be consistent in our approach. If it's OK to use the latest and best in rifles and ammo, why doesn't the same hold true for sights etc?
.48341.48310
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TomW
Re: Rifle Shooting Clothing
"However you should leave an area open to those who do not have those problems and do not wish to spend more money on equipment just to stay in the same place competitively.
Perhaps it is time for polevaulters to move into the 21st century and allow rocket propelled poles for those who are getting older too?: : Hi Mike"
Firstly, a red dot sight, for example, is several times cheaper than an aperture rearsight with iris, filters etc plus front sperture with iris etc. Even a good telescopic sight is far cheaper than this combination. So if you want the sport to be cheaper, get rid of aperture sights and go to red dots or telescopic.
Secondly, I didn't know they had rocket propelled vaulting poles. Gosh!! I can just see a whole pile of 60 plusers lining up to try this sport now.
Finally, the one good thing about shooting above all others is the fact that people of all ages are able to participate in it. Don't worry though. Young fit people still have many advantages over the oldies and won't have to endure the indignity of being beaten by a 70 year old using a red dot sight. Most of us with failing eyesight, for example, would love to be able to see the sight rings and bull with some degree of clarity rather than have to struggle through a match wondering if we are anywhere near the centre. A red dot sight or optical sight helps to remove this handicap and I don't have a problem with that and what's more I'm perfectly happy for the young bloke next to me to use the same gear - it would put us on an even footing. I don't have a problem with that either. Do you????
twoodle1-at-bigpond.net.au.48352.48341
Perhaps it is time for polevaulters to move into the 21st century and allow rocket propelled poles for those who are getting older too?: : Hi Mike"
Firstly, a red dot sight, for example, is several times cheaper than an aperture rearsight with iris, filters etc plus front sperture with iris etc. Even a good telescopic sight is far cheaper than this combination. So if you want the sport to be cheaper, get rid of aperture sights and go to red dots or telescopic.
Secondly, I didn't know they had rocket propelled vaulting poles. Gosh!! I can just see a whole pile of 60 plusers lining up to try this sport now.
Finally, the one good thing about shooting above all others is the fact that people of all ages are able to participate in it. Don't worry though. Young fit people still have many advantages over the oldies and won't have to endure the indignity of being beaten by a 70 year old using a red dot sight. Most of us with failing eyesight, for example, would love to be able to see the sight rings and bull with some degree of clarity rather than have to struggle through a match wondering if we are anywhere near the centre. A red dot sight or optical sight helps to remove this handicap and I don't have a problem with that and what's more I'm perfectly happy for the young bloke next to me to use the same gear - it would put us on an even footing. I don't have a problem with that either. Do you????
twoodle1-at-bigpond.net.au.48352.48341
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Mike Schroeder
Re: Rifle Shooting Clothing
: "However you should leave an area open to those who do not have those problems and do not wish to spend more money on equipment just to stay in the same place competitively.
..That's a yes and no. I don't advocate doing away with aperture sights, and iron sights. I just want to see a catagory for us to compete in that doesnt' require them. I would also like to echo something David Tubb asked the NRA for, have a specified telescopic sight for NRA competition at Camp Perry. That would give us old farts help, but even help across the course so to speak.
Probably wouldn't cost less though.
: Perhaps it is time for polevaulters to move into the 21st century and allow rocket propelled poles for those who are getting older too?:
....Wellllll, I'd watch that on TV :^} But track and field (except for Marathoners) isn't really a game for anyone under 25.
: Finally, the one good thing about shooting above all others ... and what's more I'm perfectly happy for the young bloke next to me to use the same gear - it would put us on an even footing. I don't have a problem with that either. Do you???? in short NOPE.
Longer answer. Right now, air rifle 3-P is iron sights only, no problem I don't think a scope would help much at 10M. Smallbore 3-P is also iron sights only, and I'd like to see that change to allow a specific power of scope like the CMP is doing, but using a match rifle. If you start competing, you start to buy a lot more stuff I've notice.
Mike
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.48410.48352
..That's a yes and no. I don't advocate doing away with aperture sights, and iron sights. I just want to see a catagory for us to compete in that doesnt' require them. I would also like to echo something David Tubb asked the NRA for, have a specified telescopic sight for NRA competition at Camp Perry. That would give us old farts help, but even help across the course so to speak.
Probably wouldn't cost less though.
: Perhaps it is time for polevaulters to move into the 21st century and allow rocket propelled poles for those who are getting older too?:
....Wellllll, I'd watch that on TV :^} But track and field (except for Marathoners) isn't really a game for anyone under 25.
: Finally, the one good thing about shooting above all others ... and what's more I'm perfectly happy for the young bloke next to me to use the same gear - it would put us on an even footing. I don't have a problem with that either. Do you???? in short NOPE.
Longer answer. Right now, air rifle 3-P is iron sights only, no problem I don't think a scope would help much at 10M. Smallbore 3-P is also iron sights only, and I'd like to see that change to allow a specific power of scope like the CMP is doing, but using a match rifle. If you start competing, you start to buy a lot more stuff I've notice.
Mike
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.48410.48352