I was shooting next to a member of the US team and I noticed that he had moved the front sight of his LP10 all the way back away from the front of the AP and also moved the rear sight all the way back. The sight radius is slightly less than if you keep the front sight all the way forward and the back sight all the way forward. I thought this was interesting. Have any of y’all played with changing the sight radius? I did some playing and moved the back sight all the way back, thereby, increasing the sight radius to its max and I didn’t see much difference. The hold didn’t look any shakier. However, this was at my home range with no pressure. Things would probably look different during a match. I’m keeping my sights where they are now until after the 3X AP match. I’ve read about Nygord shortening the FWB65 and doing quite well with it. I’m a hacker that likes to fiddle with settings instead of just doing it. I know that this isn’t the best way to improve, but I CAN’T HELP IT. :-)
Thanks
Mack
.48029.0
Playing with sight radius in LP10
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
Craig E.
me too
: I was shooting next to a member of the US team and I noticed that he had moved the front sight of his LP10 all the way back away from the front of the AP and also moved the rear sight all the way back. The sight radius is slightly less than if you keep the front sight all the way forward and the back sight all the way forward. I thought this was interesting. Have any of y’all played with changing the sight radius? I did some playing and moved the back sight all the way back, thereby, increasing the sight radius to its max and I didn’t see much difference. The hold didn’t look any shakier. However, this was at my home range with no pressure. Things would probably look different during a match. I’m keeping my sights where they are now until after the 3X AP match. I’ve read about Nygord shortening the FWB65 and doing quite well with it. I’m a hacker that likes to fiddle with settings instead of just doing it. I know that this isn’t the best way to improve, but I CAN’T HELP IT. :-)
: Thanks
: Mack
alance2002-at-yahoo.com.48042.48029
: Thanks
: Mack
alance2002-at-yahoo.com.48042.48029
-
Craig E
Re: me too
: : I was shooting next to a member of the US team and I noticed that he had moved the front sight of his LP10 all the way back away from the front of the AP and also moved the rear sight all the way back. The sight radius is slightly less than if you keep the front sight all the way forward and the back sight all the way forward. I thought this was interesting. Have any of y’all played with changing the sight radius? I did some playing and moved the back sight all the way back, thereby, increasing the sight radius to its max and I didn’t see much difference. The hold didn’t look any shakier. However, this was at my home range with no pressure. Things would probably look different during a match. I’m keeping my sights where they are now until after the 3X AP match. I’ve read about Nygord shortening the FWB65 and doing quite well with it. I’m a hacker that likes to fiddle with settings instead of just doing it. I know that this isn’t the best way to improve, but I CAN’T HELP IT. :-)
: : Thanks
: : Mack
See....hit the enter button too soon. I have moved the front sight on my LP1 rearward and now front again. The shorter distance didn't really clear up the sight picture enough to make a difference. I think the motivation for this type of move has more to do with eyesight focal length than anything else. The trouble with Steyr is that the pistol has so damn many places to tinker, it's hard to remember where you've done something and what you did :~) But we do all this for fun anyway. Craig
alance2002-at-yahoo.com.48043.48042
: : Thanks
: : Mack
See....hit the enter button too soon. I have moved the front sight on my LP1 rearward and now front again. The shorter distance didn't really clear up the sight picture enough to make a difference. I think the motivation for this type of move has more to do with eyesight focal length than anything else. The trouble with Steyr is that the pistol has so damn many places to tinker, it's hard to remember where you've done something and what you did :~) But we do all this for fun anyway. Craig
alance2002-at-yahoo.com.48043.48042
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Bob Wiard
Time and Documentation
Just a couple of IMO's.
1.In general you should take 3-6 mos., or more, with any change you make to your pistol. It takes time for you to adjust to the changes.
2.You should be keeping a shooting log containing your training and any changes you make to the set up of your pistol.
.48047.48043
1.In general you should take 3-6 mos., or more, with any change you make to your pistol. It takes time for you to adjust to the changes.
2.You should be keeping a shooting log containing your training and any changes you make to the set up of your pistol.
.48047.48043
-
JP O'Connor
Re: Playing with sight radius in LP10
: I was shooting next to a member of the US team and I noticed that he had moved the front sight of his LP10 all the way back away from the front of the AP and also moved the rear sight all the way back. The sight radius is slightly less than if you keep the front sight all the way forward and the back sight all the way forward. I thought this was interesting. Have any of y’all played with changing the sight radius? I did some playing and moved the back sight all the way back, thereby, increasing the sight radius to its max and I didn’t see much difference. The hold didn’t look any shakier. However, this was at my home range with no pressure. Things would probably look different during a match. I’m keeping my sights where they are now until after the 3X AP match. I’ve read about Nygord shortening the FWB65 and doing quite well with it. I’m a hacker that likes to fiddle with settings instead of just doing it. I know that this isn’t the best way to improve, but I CAN’T HELP IT. :-)
: Thanks
: Mack
---
The current usas women's air pistol national champion moved her front sight all the way back on her LP1 without moving the rear sight. This was done because her hold still has a bit of high frequency jitter and this reduced the apparent amplitude of it just enough that it allowed her to not worry about it.
Note that this had nothing to do with visual issues. She sees the front sight quite clearly, the rear sight is ever so slightly fuzzy, and the bull is distinct, yet fuzzier still. She also uses a deep sub-six hold with her eye quietly resting on the very center of the visible part of the front sight. Overall, she has an ideal sight picture.
Her sight alignment did not suffer as she is very good at maintaining sight alignment without any conscious thought or checking... she just does her shot process and alignment is always rock solid.
Of course, one would argue that moving the front sight back for the reason given is a compensation (not a corection) for whatever the root problem is that is causing the high frequency jitter. This is true. With only two months to train, there was not time before nationals to properly diagnose and change the root problem. The sight change allowed her to ignore the jitter since it was not directly affecting her shots... only her perception (and resultant mental state and thoughts) affected her shots. So, with limited time, she moved the sight and at least temnporarily "solved" the "problem".
Noptel analysis at the time showed her that her hold was more than adequate (it is actually quite good, something she picked up right away in the analysis!) and so she had no remaining concern about hold. This freed her to "just shoot"! ...and shoot she did!
Though not a record setting performance, she was very happy to feel her inner performance return to higher levels that she had been used to and to see her scores at a much higher level than they had been.
In her training now, a couple of things will be looked at. One is to review and experiment with the width of the rear notch. As the front sight comes back, its image becomes larger. This reduces the width of the light gaps between it and the rear sight. Therefore, finding the optimal rear width to match the new sight picture is important. Another task is to identify the source of the high frequency jitter (most likely which muscles and why) and address that issue. It might have to do with grip pressure, grip or position details, her arm and/or shoulder strength and endurance, or some combination of these and/or other factors.
Often there are varying reasons for the things we see on the range. It's interesting to understand why and see how they might apply to our own shooting.
"Feel Center!"
-JP
jpoc-at-acm.org.48054.48029
: Thanks
: Mack
---
The current usas women's air pistol national champion moved her front sight all the way back on her LP1 without moving the rear sight. This was done because her hold still has a bit of high frequency jitter and this reduced the apparent amplitude of it just enough that it allowed her to not worry about it.
Note that this had nothing to do with visual issues. She sees the front sight quite clearly, the rear sight is ever so slightly fuzzy, and the bull is distinct, yet fuzzier still. She also uses a deep sub-six hold with her eye quietly resting on the very center of the visible part of the front sight. Overall, she has an ideal sight picture.
Her sight alignment did not suffer as she is very good at maintaining sight alignment without any conscious thought or checking... she just does her shot process and alignment is always rock solid.
Of course, one would argue that moving the front sight back for the reason given is a compensation (not a corection) for whatever the root problem is that is causing the high frequency jitter. This is true. With only two months to train, there was not time before nationals to properly diagnose and change the root problem. The sight change allowed her to ignore the jitter since it was not directly affecting her shots... only her perception (and resultant mental state and thoughts) affected her shots. So, with limited time, she moved the sight and at least temnporarily "solved" the "problem".
Noptel analysis at the time showed her that her hold was more than adequate (it is actually quite good, something she picked up right away in the analysis!) and so she had no remaining concern about hold. This freed her to "just shoot"! ...and shoot she did!
Though not a record setting performance, she was very happy to feel her inner performance return to higher levels that she had been used to and to see her scores at a much higher level than they had been.
In her training now, a couple of things will be looked at. One is to review and experiment with the width of the rear notch. As the front sight comes back, its image becomes larger. This reduces the width of the light gaps between it and the rear sight. Therefore, finding the optimal rear width to match the new sight picture is important. Another task is to identify the source of the high frequency jitter (most likely which muscles and why) and address that issue. It might have to do with grip pressure, grip or position details, her arm and/or shoulder strength and endurance, or some combination of these and/or other factors.
Often there are varying reasons for the things we see on the range. It's interesting to understand why and see how they might apply to our own shooting.
"Feel Center!"
-JP
jpoc-at-acm.org.48054.48029
-
Craig E.
helpful post - thanks (nt)
: : I was shooting next to a member of the US team and I noticed that he had moved the front sight of his LP10 all the way back away from the front of the AP and also moved the rear sight all the way back. The sight radius is slightly less than if you keep the front sight all the way forward and the back sight all the way forward. I thought this was interesting. Have any of y’all played with changing the sight radius? I did some playing and moved the back sight all the way back, thereby, increasing the sight radius to its max and I didn’t see much difference. The hold didn’t look any shakier. However, this was at my home range with no pressure. Things would probably look different during a match. I’m keeping my sights where they are now until after the 3X AP match. I’ve read about Nygord shortening the FWB65 and doing quite well with it. I’m a hacker that likes to fiddle with settings instead of just doing it. I know that this isn’t the best way to improve, but I CAN’T HELP IT. :-)
: : Thanks
: : Mack
:
: ---
: The current usas women's air pistol national champion moved her front sight all the way back on her LP1 without moving the rear sight. This was done because her hold still has a bit of high frequency jitter and this reduced the apparent amplitude of it just enough that it allowed her to not worry about it.
: Note that this had nothing to do with visual issues. She sees the front sight quite clearly, the rear sight is ever so slightly fuzzy, and the bull is distinct, yet fuzzier still. She also uses a deep sub-six hold with her eye quietly resting on the very center of the visible part of the front sight. Overall, she has an ideal sight picture.
: Her sight alignment did not suffer as she is very good at maintaining sight alignment without any conscious thought or checking... she just does her shot process and alignment is always rock solid.
: Of course, one would argue that moving the front sight back for the reason given is a compensation (not a corection) for whatever the root problem is that is causing the high frequency jitter. This is true. With only two months to train, there was not time before nationals to properly diagnose and change the root problem. The sight change allowed her to ignore the jitter since it was not directly affecting her shots... only her perception (and resultant mental state and thoughts) affected her shots. So, with limited time, she moved the sight and at least temnporarily "solved" the "problem".
: Noptel analysis at the time showed her that her hold was more than adequate (it is actually quite good, something she picked up right away in the analysis!) and so she had no remaining concern about hold. This freed her to "just shoot"! ...and shoot she did!
: Though not a record setting performance, she was very happy to feel her inner performance return to higher levels that she had been used to and to see her scores at a much higher level than they had been.
: In her training now, a couple of things will be looked at. One is to review and experiment with the width of the rear notch. As the front sight comes back, its image becomes larger. This reduces the width of the light gaps between it and the rear sight. Therefore, finding the optimal rear width to match the new sight picture is important. Another task is to identify the source of the high frequency jitter (most likely which muscles and why) and address that issue. It might have to do with grip pressure, grip or position details, her arm and/or shoulder strength and endurance, or some combination of these and/or other factors.
: Often there are varying reasons for the things we see on the range. It's interesting to understand why and see how they might apply to our own shooting.
: "Feel Center!"
: -JP
alance2002-at-yahoo.com.48064.48054
: : Thanks
: : Mack
:
: ---
: The current usas women's air pistol national champion moved her front sight all the way back on her LP1 without moving the rear sight. This was done because her hold still has a bit of high frequency jitter and this reduced the apparent amplitude of it just enough that it allowed her to not worry about it.
: Note that this had nothing to do with visual issues. She sees the front sight quite clearly, the rear sight is ever so slightly fuzzy, and the bull is distinct, yet fuzzier still. She also uses a deep sub-six hold with her eye quietly resting on the very center of the visible part of the front sight. Overall, she has an ideal sight picture.
: Her sight alignment did not suffer as she is very good at maintaining sight alignment without any conscious thought or checking... she just does her shot process and alignment is always rock solid.
: Of course, one would argue that moving the front sight back for the reason given is a compensation (not a corection) for whatever the root problem is that is causing the high frequency jitter. This is true. With only two months to train, there was not time before nationals to properly diagnose and change the root problem. The sight change allowed her to ignore the jitter since it was not directly affecting her shots... only her perception (and resultant mental state and thoughts) affected her shots. So, with limited time, she moved the sight and at least temnporarily "solved" the "problem".
: Noptel analysis at the time showed her that her hold was more than adequate (it is actually quite good, something she picked up right away in the analysis!) and so she had no remaining concern about hold. This freed her to "just shoot"! ...and shoot she did!
: Though not a record setting performance, she was very happy to feel her inner performance return to higher levels that she had been used to and to see her scores at a much higher level than they had been.
: In her training now, a couple of things will be looked at. One is to review and experiment with the width of the rear notch. As the front sight comes back, its image becomes larger. This reduces the width of the light gaps between it and the rear sight. Therefore, finding the optimal rear width to match the new sight picture is important. Another task is to identify the source of the high frequency jitter (most likely which muscles and why) and address that issue. It might have to do with grip pressure, grip or position details, her arm and/or shoulder strength and endurance, or some combination of these and/or other factors.
: Often there are varying reasons for the things we see on the range. It's interesting to understand why and see how they might apply to our own shooting.
: "Feel Center!"
: -JP
alance2002-at-yahoo.com.48064.48054
-
Bubba
Re: Playing with sight radius
: The current usas women's air pistol national champion moved her front sight all the way back on her LP1 without moving the rear sight. This was done because her hold still has a bit of high frequency jitter and this reduced the apparent amplitude of it just enough that it allowed her to not worry about it.
: Note that this had nothing to do with visual issues. She sees the front sight quite clearly, the rear sight is ever so slightly fuzzy, and the bull is distinct, yet fuzzier still. She also uses a deep sub-six hold with her eye quietly resting on the very center of the visible part of the front sight. Overall, she has an ideal sight picture.
: Her sight alignment did not suffer as she is very good at maintaining sight alignment without any conscious thought or checking... she just does her shot process and alignment is always rock solid.
: Of course, one would argue that moving the front sight back for the reason given is a compensation (not a corection) for whatever the root problem is that is causing the high frequency jitter. This is true. With only two months to train, there was not time before nationals to properly diagnose and change the root problem. The sight change allowed her to ignore the jitter since it was not directly affecting her shots... only her perception (and resultant mental state and thoughts) affected her shots. So, with limited time, she moved the sight and at least temnporarily "solved" the "problem".
: Noptel analysis at the time showed her that her hold was more than adequate (it is actually quite good, something she picked up right away in the analysis!) and so she had no remaining concern about hold. This freed her to "just shoot"! ...and shoot she did!
: Though not a record setting performance, she was very happy to feel her inner performance return to higher levels that she had been used to and to see her scores at a much higher level than they had been.
: In her training now, a couple of things will be looked at. One is to review and experiment with the width of the rear notch. As the front sight comes back, its image becomes larger. This reduces the width of the light gaps between it and the rear sight. Therefore, finding the optimal rear width to match the new sight picture is important. Another task is to identify the source of the high frequency jitter (most likely which muscles and why) and address that issue. It might have to do with grip pressure, grip or position details, her arm and/or shoulder strength and endurance, or some combination of these and/or other factors.
I want to experss my admiration for your post, and respect for their content. Mr. O'Conner, I think that I may have read every post you have made on this forum and in the shooter's omibus on Pilkington's site.
I too, with the help of Warren Potter, by phone, have been experimenting with sight radius on an LP-@, LP-1, LP-5, and some others. I do keep records of sight changes, or any changes made to the pistols. I have been doing this experimenting for about 6 months. I shoot almost every day, and at least 40 rounds, and usually more like 120 rounds per day.
My perception of the sight radius adjustments is that it helps me to reduce sight radius on all but the LP-1, and a Tau-7. I was able to perceive that my hold was more steady with the short radius. The scores recorded indicated an increase, and a pretty fast increase that seemed to continue with a small down turn after I had used the short sight radius for some time.
As to the lady you were referring to, is moving the front sight to the most rearward position a problem? If the holes were there for this adjustment, would it be any different than adjusting a grip or a trigger or a weight placement to a personal preference? If her high frequency movement was solved/eliminated, where would you put the sight radius? That's why they have the adjustments and they are so easy to use. Once a coach of your high caliber analizes the shooters capabilities, strengths, and weaknesses, you can evaluate the changes made, hopefully over a reasonable time.
I am a better sailor than a pistol shooter, and have competed with some motorcycles, not in sail boat races, because walking and riding a motorcycle on water is a little too showy don't you think? BUTI have seen people make changes in their boat or motorcycle, and, believe for a few times out, that whatever they did was such an improvement that they placed higher. Now the changes I am talkin about are changes that would not change the performance of the boat or bike, in proportion to the increase in performance. The person adding a piece of equipment simply paid more attention to what he/she was doing, or in some cases was freed by the equipment to pay attention to other issues.
I am not very good at 10 m air gun shooting, and I know why, thanks to Warren, yourself, and some other contributers. Thanks for all the help.
I remain,
Respectfully,
Bubba
DanielHankiins-at-wmconnect.com.48069.48054
: Note that this had nothing to do with visual issues. She sees the front sight quite clearly, the rear sight is ever so slightly fuzzy, and the bull is distinct, yet fuzzier still. She also uses a deep sub-six hold with her eye quietly resting on the very center of the visible part of the front sight. Overall, she has an ideal sight picture.
: Her sight alignment did not suffer as she is very good at maintaining sight alignment without any conscious thought or checking... she just does her shot process and alignment is always rock solid.
: Of course, one would argue that moving the front sight back for the reason given is a compensation (not a corection) for whatever the root problem is that is causing the high frequency jitter. This is true. With only two months to train, there was not time before nationals to properly diagnose and change the root problem. The sight change allowed her to ignore the jitter since it was not directly affecting her shots... only her perception (and resultant mental state and thoughts) affected her shots. So, with limited time, she moved the sight and at least temnporarily "solved" the "problem".
: Noptel analysis at the time showed her that her hold was more than adequate (it is actually quite good, something she picked up right away in the analysis!) and so she had no remaining concern about hold. This freed her to "just shoot"! ...and shoot she did!
: Though not a record setting performance, she was very happy to feel her inner performance return to higher levels that she had been used to and to see her scores at a much higher level than they had been.
: In her training now, a couple of things will be looked at. One is to review and experiment with the width of the rear notch. As the front sight comes back, its image becomes larger. This reduces the width of the light gaps between it and the rear sight. Therefore, finding the optimal rear width to match the new sight picture is important. Another task is to identify the source of the high frequency jitter (most likely which muscles and why) and address that issue. It might have to do with grip pressure, grip or position details, her arm and/or shoulder strength and endurance, or some combination of these and/or other factors.
I want to experss my admiration for your post, and respect for their content. Mr. O'Conner, I think that I may have read every post you have made on this forum and in the shooter's omibus on Pilkington's site.
I too, with the help of Warren Potter, by phone, have been experimenting with sight radius on an LP-@, LP-1, LP-5, and some others. I do keep records of sight changes, or any changes made to the pistols. I have been doing this experimenting for about 6 months. I shoot almost every day, and at least 40 rounds, and usually more like 120 rounds per day.
My perception of the sight radius adjustments is that it helps me to reduce sight radius on all but the LP-1, and a Tau-7. I was able to perceive that my hold was more steady with the short radius. The scores recorded indicated an increase, and a pretty fast increase that seemed to continue with a small down turn after I had used the short sight radius for some time.
As to the lady you were referring to, is moving the front sight to the most rearward position a problem? If the holes were there for this adjustment, would it be any different than adjusting a grip or a trigger or a weight placement to a personal preference? If her high frequency movement was solved/eliminated, where would you put the sight radius? That's why they have the adjustments and they are so easy to use. Once a coach of your high caliber analizes the shooters capabilities, strengths, and weaknesses, you can evaluate the changes made, hopefully over a reasonable time.
I am a better sailor than a pistol shooter, and have competed with some motorcycles, not in sail boat races, because walking and riding a motorcycle on water is a little too showy don't you think? BUTI have seen people make changes in their boat or motorcycle, and, believe for a few times out, that whatever they did was such an improvement that they placed higher. Now the changes I am talkin about are changes that would not change the performance of the boat or bike, in proportion to the increase in performance. The person adding a piece of equipment simply paid more attention to what he/she was doing, or in some cases was freed by the equipment to pay attention to other issues.
I am not very good at 10 m air gun shooting, and I know why, thanks to Warren, yourself, and some other contributers. Thanks for all the help.
I remain,
Respectfully,
Bubba
DanielHankiins-at-wmconnect.com.48069.48054