Real Lock Time, Barrel Time, and On Call.

[brent375hh]

If the time from sear release to pellet exiting the muzzle doesn't really matter, would anybody choose a pistol that took a half second to complete the task?

[6string]

If the time from sear release to pellet exiting the muzzle doesn't really matter, would anybody choose a pistol that took a half second to complete the task?

Hmm, maybe.
You could release the shot then take the remaining time to refine sight alignment.
With training it could be an advantage!

PS: maybe try the Cominazzo match for perspective?
Flintlock smoothbore pistol, minimum caliber of .433". Fired one hand (no Rink grip allowed!) at 25 yds on the B19 International free pistol target.
I think the lock time and barrel time are a little bit long (plus they don't allow compensators!)....

[northpaw]

If the time from sear release to pellet exiting the muzzle doesn't really matter, would anybody choose a pistol that took a half second to complete the task?

A good point.
The usual barrel lenght of a free pistol is 29 cm. Similar to match air rifles, a FP could have a shorter barrel, replacing the front say 8 cm of barrel for a tube. That would reduce barrel time, and turn the FP more forgiving. Cleaning lead deposits from that tube could be a shore... What about the compensator in that case? The recoil reducing effect of a compensator for a FP is marginal anyway, due to the low muzzle pressure.

[emre-nur]

I believe I am correct in saying that lock time is related to the speed of the trigger mechanism. This is the amount of time between activating the trigger and when the firing mechanism initiates ignition. Barrel time is different. Generally I think that too much emphasis is put on this issue of velocity. I figure the air pistol manufacturers do enough testing to know where their pistols shoot best in terms of velocity. Most cylinder powered pistols I have had usually go 125 to 150 rds if they start off fully charged. The short cylinder models may be a bit less. Perhaps these new models are different. I shoot an old Morini. As for the length of an air rifle barrel, I suspect the primary reason they are shorter is because once you get to a given length, the expanding gas runs out of energy. Once you get to this point, any additional barrel starts to slow the pellet down. Air rifles may have longer cylinders so this might change the ideal barrel length. I have never seen and air rifle with the barrel extension off, so I do not know what they actual length is. I have had several cylinder powered air pistols over the years. The velocity on all of them has been from about 480 to 525 fps. High speed pellets will go a little faster but I always preferred the standard weight. I could not tell any difference between them other than their balance and trigger characteristics.

one of the few that makes sense to a layperson.

[william]

If the time from sear release to pellet exiting the muzzle doesn't really matter, would anybody choose a pistol that took a half second to complete the task?

A good point.
The usual barrel lenght of a free pistol is 29 cm. Similar to match air rifles, a FP could have a shorter barrel, replacing the front say 8 cm of barrel for a tube. That would reduce barrel time, and turn the FP more forgiving. Cleaning lead deposits from that tube could be a shore... What about the compensator in that case? The recoil reducing effect of a compensator for a FP is marginal anyway, due to the low muzzle pressure.

"Engage brain before operating mouth." That goes tenfold for keyboard.
"The recoil reducing effect of a compensator for a FP is marginal anyway, due to the low muzzle pressure." But 0.2 milliseconds of barrel time and a pistol's shift in center of gravity due to compressed air use are worth consideration. Really?

You might as well keep track of time using one of Salvador Dali's limp watches.

[David M]

If the time from sear release to pellet exiting the muzzle doesn't really matter, would anybody choose a pistol that took a half second to complete the task?

I have one of those, sometimes very fast, mostly slow and other times a flash in the pan...but great Fun !

le Page.jpeg (29.58 KiB) Viewed 4070 times

[northpaw]

You might as well keep track of time using one of Salvador Dali's limp watches.

Mr/Ms "W" is struggling to give the impression he/she is a well educated man/woman. Apparently he/she is not.
Calling upon authority of celebrities like "Salvatore Dali" (translates to Dali, the salvager) is a sign of a moron, - to me at least.
If you have faith and trust in yourself and your knowledge, you do not have to refer to ancient celebrities to acquire authority.

Does Mr/Ms "W" belong to the "Flat Earth Society"? I do not know, but wound not get much surprised if he/shw was. "Macht mir keine Sorgen":-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

But as Mr/Ms "W" apparently denies elementary physics, he/she may be a prime candidate.

To my fellow competitive pistoleros out there: Lock time, and barrel time does indeed matter. I believe you all realise that.
May someone, please, with much time to spare, - please try to convince Mr/Ms "W" of the realm of elementary physics. I have better ways to spend my spare time, - like going out to the 50 m range.:-)

Good bye, Mr/Ms. "W". Pleasant dreams. I wish you all the best for the future. At the ranges, and beyond, no pun intended.

[william]

You might as well keep track of time using one of Salvador Dali's limp watches.

Mr/Ms "W" is struggling to give the impression he/she is a well educated man/woman. Apparently he/she is not.
Calling upon authority of celebrities like "Salvatore Dali" (translates to Dali, the salvager) is a sign of a moron, - to me at least.
If you have faith and trust in yourself and your knowledge, you do not have to refer to ancient celebrities to acquire authority.

Does Mr/Ms "W" belong to the "Flat Earth Society"? I do not know, but wound not get much surprised if he/shw was. "Macht mir keine Sorgen":-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

But as Mr/Ms "W" apparently denies elementary physics, he/she may be a prime candidate.

To my fellow competitive pistoleros out there: Lock time, and barrel time does indeed matter. I believe you all realise that.
May someone, please, with much time to spare, - please try to convince Mr/Ms "W" of the realm of elementary physics. I have better ways to spend my spare time, - like going out to the 50 m range.:-)

Good bye, Mr/Ms. "W". Pleasant dreams. I wish you all the best for the future. At the ranges, and beyond, no pun intended.

As any psychotherapist can inform you, projection is perhaps the most perilous defense mechanism. One need not be terribly well educated to confirm from any reliable source that the Catalan/Spanish artist's name is, indeed, SALVADOR, which any educated person knows translates to "Savior," not "Salvager." Look it up, clown!

As to any discussion of "elementary physics," practical mechanics and physiology will trump my obviously star-struck fanboy/girl's fixation on trivialities - every time. It would take more effort than it's worth to determine which is the more risible: a 200 microsecond difference in barrel time (that's MICROseconds) or the change in center of gravity of a pistol / shooter's arm system by the expelling of a few grams of air distributed over an entire match. At day's end we can have a good laugh at both.

Western minds abandoned discussions of angels dancing on the head of a pin centuries ago. Maybe "Old Europe" remains mired in a medieval mindset.

[william]

If the time from sear release to pellet exiting the muzzle doesn't really matter, would anybody choose a pistol that took a half second to complete the task?

I have one of those, sometimes very fast, mostly slow and other times a flash in the pan...but great Fun !
le Page.jpeg

David, I don't know where you're located, but I remember old-timers in Maine and New Hampshire affectionately calling them "flinch-lock." Now, those guys were SHOOTERS!

When I was a 45 year-old blackpowder newbie, they poked fun at me for taking the coward's path - caplock.

[northpaw]

clown!

Goodbye, "W". Wish you all the best for the future. At the ranges, and beyond, no pun intended.

Chears,

[william]

clown!

Goodbye, Mr/Ms. "W". Pleasant dreams. I wish you all the best for the future. At the ranges, and beyond, no pun intended.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[northpaw]

clown!

Goodbye, "W".

Cheers,

It has been entertaining... :-) Have the idea struck you that you may have been framed, "W". LOL. Ich danke Ihnen..

[northpaw]

How lousy does it get, - Mr/Ms "W" has not answered yet. Maybe he/she is asleep? Or reading elementary booklets over the topics of elementary physics, for youngsters?

Barrel time, and lock time, are paramount measures interfering on accurate shooting. Please, do not tell Mr/MS "W" as his/her blood vessel pressure may reach alarming levels. :-)

May I say "get lost" to my pal "W"? No way. I feel well informed and slightly superior to "W" regarding physics ( excuse me for that expression: superior) to "W", so let us continue the "debate":-)

[william]

How lousy does it get, - Mr/Ms "W" has not answered yet. Maybe he/she is asleep? Or reading elementary booklets over the topics of elementary physics, for youngsters?

Barrel time, and lock time, are paramount measures interfering on accurate shooting. Please, do not tell Mr/MS "W" as his/her blood vessel pressure may reach alarming levels. :-)

May I say "get lost" to my pal "W"? No way. I feel well informed and slightly superior to "W" regarding physics ( excuse me for that expression: superior) to "W", so let us continue the "debate":-)

Macbeth said it best:
"...It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

My fanboy/girl has got his/her way. He/she can have the whole forum to him/herself (or perhaps itself if he/she is really a bot) to spread his/her/its utter nonsense. It is said: "Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." I won't be bothered with a self-described expert who stands by 200 microseconds and milligrams of air as significant factors in the delivery of a shot.

[Rover]

Aww shit, I'm out of beer and popcorn.

[northpaw]

Macbeth

Salvatore Dalli

idiot

(I´m not out of popcorn)

[emre-nur]

Macbeth

Salvatore Dalli

idiot

(I´m not out of popcorn)

I wonder how "Real Lock Time, Barrel Time, and On Call" turned into this?

[brent375hh]

A 25 fps deviation IS more pronounced on target at 450 fps than it is at 550 fps.

[Rover]

I'm waiting for Levene to jump into this at any second as "pivot man" for this circle-jerk.

[Ricardo]

I thought Northpaw said he didn't have time for this...