Newbie shooting question

[Rover]

Simpler than you might think. The tape is not reflective. The lens with tape on the front IS. This creates a mildly distracting "mirror" into your eye when the light is right.

[Gwhite]

I can understand how that is possible, I've just never noticed it...

[nmondal]

Hi Guys, as everyone suggested I tried the blinder on right eye shooting with left eye.
Now I have clear evidence of 2 groups.
See the image:


Whats should I do next?
Or.
Is it because due to jerk the pistol moving left ( I have a small grip , but using Medium size - no thanks to Corona my new Pistol is God knows where :( )

[william]

I'm sorry, I don't see two "groups." I see one rather large cluster (with a low, right wanderer) centered at 8:00 on the line between the 9 and 8 rings. I'm curious - in what order did you make the shots?

[Rover]

" as everyone suggested I tried the blinder on right eye shooting with left eye"

Everyone did NOT suggest this.

Did you get proper glasses? Did you put tape on the left eye lens?

William is right. That's just one group. It's hard to consider a 10 a screw-up, but put four clicks right and up into your sight.

[william]

"...no thanks to Corona my new Pistol is God knows where."

I don't always drink beer, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis - much less likely to drink yourself into amnesia.

[nmondal]

After I reduced the gap between the rear sight - this is what I get:


No other adjustments.

P.S. Another after I wrote this post.


As you guys can see things improve. The more I shoot, the more the groups improve, but it does not help me,
cause no one will be allowing me 1 hour "practicing" before I start "actual" shooting.
:(

And still some "wanderers" cause - jerk I think ( grip issue? I have small grip but using medium grip ).

[nmondal]

"...no thanks to Corona my new Pistol is God knows where."

I don't always drink beer, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis - much less likely to drink yourself into amnesia.

Appreciated the pun man, but no it is the virus corona. I ordered LP 500 on Jan, and , miraculously, it still has not reached me.
They are blaming pandemic for this ( and they probably are quite right).

[nmondal]

I'm sorry, I don't see two "groups." I see one rather large cluster (with a low, right wanderer) centered at 8:00 on the line between the 9 and 8 rings. I'm curious - in what order did you make the shots?

Group 2 : First position. I have a pellet collector only so can not bring the target to me, so I walk and check whats there.
Group 1 : 2nd position. After.

====
Perhaps I did have too much width in the rear sight - which created this problem - this since stopped happening.
I will keep you guys posted. Appreciate all the help.

[william]

Better!

Since you have some time, walk the 10 meters after every shot and catalogue the shots in order. It will slow you down and put time & distance between shots, so each shot really can become "a one-shot match." Then, if you can, make note of what if any adjustments, physical and mental, you made from one to the next. BTW, scoring practice targets may be good for ego-stroking, but it's of little or no help in identifying and correcting errors.

[nmondal]

Better!

Since you have some time, walk the 10 meters after every shot and catalogue the shots in order. It will slow you down and put time & distance between shots, so each shot really can become "a one-shot match." Then, if you can, make note of what if any adjustments, physical and mental, you made from one to the next. BTW, scoring practice targets may be good for ego-stroking, but it's of little or no help in identifying and correcting errors.

[1] Thanks man. Will do.
[2] As of Ego stroking - tell me all about it. You are right on money.
On practice targets I was scoring 96/100 not a month back, and in actual competition, I sucked and scored 81/100.
No excuse man, thanks.
I do that just to remind myself which shot went bad and what could have been done.
You are very right.

[B Lafferty]

"...no thanks to Corona my new Pistol is God knows where."

I don't always drink beer, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis - much less likely to drink yourself into amnesia.

Appreciated the pun man, but no it is the virus corona. I ordered LP 500 on Jan, and , miraculously, it still has not reached me.
They are blaming pandemic for this ( and they probably are quite right).

Tracking?

[nmondal]

"...no thanks to Corona my new Pistol is God knows where."

I don't always drink beer, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis - much less likely to drink yourself into amnesia.

Appreciated the pun man, but no it is the virus corona. I ordered LP 500 on Jan, and , miraculously, it still has not reached me.
They are blaming pandemic for this ( and they probably are quite right).

Tracking?

The dealer took initial deposit and is in Limbo. "Corona". Called them 10 time in last month.

[nmondal]

Here is today, after 6/7 days.
I think the advices you guys gave is definitely helping. Need to look for specialised glasses too - but that can wait a bit later.



Left before Sight Adjustments - right after sight adjustments.
Thank you everybody.

[nmondal]

This is just now.
No altering sight. Same position. S-1 ( series 1 - 5 shots ). S-2 Series 2 5 shots.


I walked in between S-1 and S-2.
Still see some bad 8s. Any clue?

[JonPersson]

Unfortunately it’s quite impossible to draw any conclusions from the pictures you have posted. Your groups are spread within the 8-10th ring. That’s what can be determined. Why is a much more complicated question.

- do you have a good stance?
- did you modify you grip to fit your hand properly
- do you grip with same strength every shot?
- do you have a thought out shot process?
- how big is your arc of movement?
- how is your trigger control? Do you dry fire? (Dry fire will help and it will also reveal any issues with wrist stability)
- can you REALLY maintain focus on the front sight throughout the shot?
- do you follow through?
- do you perform specific physical exercises?

- and get some shooting glasses ASAP

The answer to any shooters problems often lies in one or more of the above.

Where to start?

I can answer that for you, but I can tell you that tweaking the sights based on a 10-shot series will not make you groups smaller, it will merely move them around a bit.

For me, learning to modify the grip and seeing how different ways of gripping (how hard, with/without thumb pressure etc) impacted my groups was the biggest improvement as far as consistency goes. My top scores did not improve, but I had fewer lows.

[nmondal]

...
- and get some shooting glasses ASAP

The answer to any shooters problems often lies in one or more of the above.

Where to start?

I can answer that for you, but I can tell you that tweaking the sights based on a 10-shot series will not make you groups smaller, it will merely move them around a bit.

For me, learning to modify the grip and seeing how different ways of gripping (how hard, with/without thumb pressure etc) impacted my groups was the biggest improvement as far as consistency goes. My top scores did not improve, but I had fewer lows.

Thanks Jon.
My wrist is 83mm and I am using a M grip, and that is one of the biggest challenge I have now. Working to get a small grip.
being said that:

- do you have a good stance? OK.
- did you modify you grip to fit your hand properly ? Could not.
- do you grip with same strength every shot? Reasonably.
- do you have a thought out shot process? No.
- how big is your arc of movement? ( not sure what is this? -- found out, reading about it now, thank you!)
- how is your trigger control? Do you dry fire? (Dry fire will help and it will also reveal any issues with wrist stability) My trigger sometimes gets hard.
I do holding at least 30 mins a day for dry firing.
- can you REALLY maintain focus on the front sight throughout the shot? Sometimes, Not always.
- do you follow through? Sometimes
- do you perform specific physical exercises? No.
Thanks for the help!

[B Lafferty]

"...no thanks to Corona my new Pistol is God knows where."

I don't always drink beer, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis - much less likely to drink yourself into amnesia.

Appreciated the pun man, but no it is the virus corona. I ordered LP 500 on Jan, and , miraculously, it still has not reached me.
They are blaming pandemic for this ( and they probably are quite right).

Tracking?

The dealer took initial deposit and is in Limbo. "Corona". Called them 10 time in last month.

If you paid with a credit card, you should be able to cancel the order for failure to deliver.

[spektr]

Im sitting here watching in wonderment all the conversations going on about eyes, glasses and so on.

What I am seeing in the targets is non-repeating foot placement. the individual groups look good.
Their position does not repeat. This is starting to look like the NPA is drifting. If the NPA is drifting,
the group will look good, but the group centroid moves from place to place. Its pretty clear to me
that he can see what's going on adequately enough to shoot passable groups, but he doesn't have anybody
telling him the criticality of building the position. Feet First, raise the gun, see where it gos, move the feet until
the gun NATURALLY gos to the target center on lift. All things start there, and we are all talking circles around it.

There is also the potential issue of not having shot enough to even have a statistically valid sample size. Not to
hurt anyones feelings, but there is a LOT of noise in the data. Just looking at the target tells us that. We all see
improvement paths based what we each see in the target. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consensus on what needs tuning first.

Mind You, There is a LOT of good going on. Most everything is in the black, a very good start. The last target had a couple groups
with vertical dispersions with the group centers. It sure looked to me like the rear foot moved forward to back moving the
group up and down. Foot position again. You drive the NPA with your feet. I suggest we stop twisting the knobs for a while
and concentrate on building the position. Let the group shrink, it will do that as we build the position and understand that
if we repeat HOW and WHERE we stand, the group shrinks. After it is repeating somewhere consistently, twist the knobs
move the group to the 10 ring.

perfect your stance into something repeatable, perfect your sight picture into something repeatable, then twist the knobs to
get the holes into the middle of the target repeatably. If you repeat all these things, you get 10s

of course, I can TYPE this better than I can actually do it, but that's another story, I'm still working on the repeatability thing......

[nmondal]

Im sitting here watching in wonderment all the conversations going on about eyes, glasses and so on.

What I am seeing in the targets is non-repeating foot placement. the individual groups look good.
Their position does not repeat. This is starting to look like the NPA is drifting. If the NPA is drifting,
the group will look good, but the group centroid moves from place to place. Its pretty clear to me
that he can see what's going on adequately enough to shoot passable groups, but he doesn't have anybody
telling him the criticality of building the position. Feet First, raise the gun, see where it gos, move the feet until
the gun NATURALLY gos to the target center on lift. All things start there, and we are all talking circles around it.

There is also the potential issue of not having shot enough to even have a statistically valid sample size. Not to
hurt anyones feelings, but there is a LOT of noise in the data. Just looking at the target tells us that. We all see
improvement paths based what we each see in the target. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consensus on what needs tuning first.

Mind You, There is a LOT of good going on. Most everything is in the black, a very good start. The last target had a couple groups
with vertical dispersions with the group centers. It sure looked to me like the rear foot moved forward to back moving the
group up and down. Foot position again. You drive the NPA with your feet. I suggest we stop twisting the knobs for a while
and concentrate on building the position. Let the group shrink, it will do that as we build the position and understand that
if we repeat HOW and WHERE we stand, the group shrinks. After it is repeating somewhere consistently, twist the knobs
move the group to the 10 ring.

perfect your stance into something repeatable, perfect your sight picture into something repeatable, then twist the knobs to
get the holes into the middle of the target repeatably. If you repeat all these things, you get 10s

of course, I can TYPE this better than I can actually do it, but that's another story, I'm still working on the repeatability thing......

Thank you. So repeatable feet position. Thank you!!!