Hi,
I'm a AP shooter and I'm interested on a home training system. I've made some searches it seems the best one is the Noptel (the most expensive). So, I would like to know your opinion about the following:
1) Is, in fact, Noptel the best home training system?
2) The weight of optical unit is about 123 g with cable. Do you think that this weight will cause problems between the training and the "real" shoots?
Kindest regards and your comments will be welcome,
Alex.
etci.alex-at-mail.telepac.pt.46068.0
Noptel system...
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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Alexey
Re: Noptel system...
: Hi,
: I'm a AP shooter and I'm interested on a home training system. I've made some searches it seems the best one is the Noptel (the most expensive). So, I would like to know your opinion about the following:
: 1) Is, in fact, Noptel the best home training system?
Hard to tell, honestly. It may be marginally better in this or that respect, then again it may not. But I certainly can't say that it is marginally more expensive.
: 2) The weight of optical unit is about 123 g with cable. Do you think that this weight will cause problems between the training and the "real" shoots?
Yes, I do. Ever see how the optical unit is attached to a pistol?
You can use RIKA or SCATT with equal success. I'd pay attention to small things, for example: whether the distance is critical (RIKA adjusts automatically to any distance between 3 and 10 meters; for SCATT you'll have to provide either 5 or 10 meters).
BTW, being an AP shooter, I wouldn't bother over precision; all the three systems are more than good enough for the pistol.
alexey931-at-list.ru.46069.46068
: I'm a AP shooter and I'm interested on a home training system. I've made some searches it seems the best one is the Noptel (the most expensive). So, I would like to know your opinion about the following:
: 1) Is, in fact, Noptel the best home training system?
Hard to tell, honestly. It may be marginally better in this or that respect, then again it may not. But I certainly can't say that it is marginally more expensive.
: 2) The weight of optical unit is about 123 g with cable. Do you think that this weight will cause problems between the training and the "real" shoots?
Yes, I do. Ever see how the optical unit is attached to a pistol?
You can use RIKA or SCATT with equal success. I'd pay attention to small things, for example: whether the distance is critical (RIKA adjusts automatically to any distance between 3 and 10 meters; for SCATT you'll have to provide either 5 or 10 meters).
BTW, being an AP shooter, I wouldn't bother over precision; all the three systems are more than good enough for the pistol.
alexey931-at-list.ru.46069.46068
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David Levene
Re: Noptel system...
: 1) Is, in fact, Noptel the best home training system?
: 2) The weight of optical unit is about 123 g with cable. Do you think that this weight will cause problems between the training and the "real" shoots?
Of the 3 "big" systems (Noptel, Rika & Scatt) the Noptel is probably the least suitable for Air Pistol. From memory, apart from the weight of the sensor/transtmitter, you also have to add the weight of the clamp and cable.
When you compare this to the weight of the Scatt sensor of 35g (plus cable) you will understand my comment.
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.46076.46068
: 2) The weight of optical unit is about 123 g with cable. Do you think that this weight will cause problems between the training and the "real" shoots?
Of the 3 "big" systems (Noptel, Rika & Scatt) the Noptel is probably the least suitable for Air Pistol. From memory, apart from the weight of the sensor/transtmitter, you also have to add the weight of the clamp and cable.
When you compare this to the weight of the Scatt sensor of 35g (plus cable) you will understand my comment.
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.46076.46068
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Marcus Raab
Re: Scatt system...
: You can use RIKA or SCATT with equal success. I'd pay attention to small things, for example: whether the distance is critical (RIKA adjusts automatically to any distance between 3 and 10 meters; for SCATT you'll have to provide either 5 or 10 meters).
This is not true. Like the RIKA, the SCATT can be used as follows:
The "5-Meter" target can be used from about 3 meters to about 7 meters. Dryfire only!
The "10 Meter" system can be used for about 7 meters to 10 and beyond. Michael Ray uses his at about 16 Meters...but it is at the limit of capapbility. Dry fire or live fire for airguns.
Either target can simulate shooting at any distance from 10 meters for Airguns to 50 meter rifle and pistol out to 300 meter rifle and even 1000 yard Fullbore.
.46086.46069
This is not true. Like the RIKA, the SCATT can be used as follows:
The "5-Meter" target can be used from about 3 meters to about 7 meters. Dryfire only!
The "10 Meter" system can be used for about 7 meters to 10 and beyond. Michael Ray uses his at about 16 Meters...but it is at the limit of capapbility. Dry fire or live fire for airguns.
Either target can simulate shooting at any distance from 10 meters for Airguns to 50 meter rifle and pistol out to 300 meter rifle and even 1000 yard Fullbore.
.46086.46069
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Alex Silva
Re: Scatt system...
: : You can use RIKA or SCATT with equal success. I'd pay attention to small things, for example: whether the distance is critical (RIKA adjusts automatically to any distance between 3 and 10 meters; for SCATT you'll have to provide either 5 or 10 meters).
: This is not true. Like the RIKA, the SCATT can be used as follows:
: The "5-Meter" target can be used from about 3 meters to about 7 meters. Dryfire only!
: The "10 Meter" system can be used for about 7 meters to 10 and beyond. Michael Ray uses his at about 16 Meters...but it is at the limit of capapbility. Dry fire or live fire for airguns.
: Either target can simulate shooting at any distance from 10 meters for Airguns to 50 meter rifle and pistol out to 300 meter rifle and even 1000 yard Fullbore.
Thanks for your information. Just one more question about SCATT. What target should we use for a distance of 4 m?
Kindest regards,
Alex.
.46089.46086
: This is not true. Like the RIKA, the SCATT can be used as follows:
: The "5-Meter" target can be used from about 3 meters to about 7 meters. Dryfire only!
: The "10 Meter" system can be used for about 7 meters to 10 and beyond. Michael Ray uses his at about 16 Meters...but it is at the limit of capapbility. Dry fire or live fire for airguns.
: Either target can simulate shooting at any distance from 10 meters for Airguns to 50 meter rifle and pistol out to 300 meter rifle and even 1000 yard Fullbore.
Thanks for your information. Just one more question about SCATT. What target should we use for a distance of 4 m?
Kindest regards,
Alex.
.46089.46086
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Marcus
Re: Scatt system...
Alex
If you only have 4 meters then you need the 5 meter target (dry fire only).
You can print the scaled down targets from the software for the distace you have.
If you also would like to use the SCATT at your real range (10 meters) where you shoot real pellets then you would also need the 10 meter target frame.
.46090.46089
If you only have 4 meters then you need the 5 meter target (dry fire only).
You can print the scaled down targets from the software for the distace you have.
If you also would like to use the SCATT at your real range (10 meters) where you shoot real pellets then you would also need the 10 meter target frame.
.46090.46089
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christophe
What is the best Scatt system or rika?
I'm a AP shooter and I'm interested on a home training system
What is the best Scatt system or rika?
thank you for answer
christopeh
tofmail-at-free.fr.46093.46090
What is the best Scatt system or rika?
thank you for answer
christopeh
tofmail-at-free.fr.46093.46090
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David Levene
Re: What is the best Scatt system or rika?
: I'm a AP shooter and I'm interested on a home training system
: What is the best Scatt system or rika?
You will probably find that Scatt users say that Scatt is best and Rika users say that Rika is best.
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.46095.46093
: What is the best Scatt system or rika?
You will probably find that Scatt users say that Scatt is best and Rika users say that Rika is best.
dalevene-at-blueyonder.co.uk.46095.46093
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Michael Ray
Re: What is the best Scatt system or rika?
: I'm a AP shooter and I'm interested on a home training system
: What is the best Scatt system or rika?
Based solely on sensor weight, I would say the Scatt because it's sensor is the lightest so would have the least effect on your normal balance.
.46116.46093
: What is the best Scatt system or rika?
Based solely on sensor weight, I would say the Scatt because it's sensor is the lightest so would have the least effect on your normal balance.
.46116.46093
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Michael Ray
Hey, Marcus
: The "10 Meter" system can be used for about 7 meters to 10 and beyond. Michael Ray uses his at about 16 Meters...but it is at the limit of capapbility. Dry fire or live fire for airguns.
Yep. I also live fire .22 sometimes.
: Either target can simulate shooting at any distance from 10 meters for Airguns to 50 meter rifle and pistol out to 300 meter rifle and even 1000 yard Fullbore.
Marcus, how do you scale the target as shown on the screen or compensate for shooting with the Scatt at odd distances (eg, A-36 at 10m or 16m)? Vladimir told me to contact you about that.
Please email as I don't check here too often.
.46138.46086
Yep. I also live fire .22 sometimes.
: Either target can simulate shooting at any distance from 10 meters for Airguns to 50 meter rifle and pistol out to 300 meter rifle and even 1000 yard Fullbore.
Marcus, how do you scale the target as shown on the screen or compensate for shooting with the Scatt at odd distances (eg, A-36 at 10m or 16m)? Vladimir told me to contact you about that.
Please email as I don't check here too often.
.46138.46086
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JP O'Connor
Noptel Weight Is OK
Although the Noptel sensor does weigh more than the others, this fact alone is not reason enough to rule it out, even for pistol.
The vast majority of electronic trainer work is done in dry fire mode. Simply remove the air or CO2 cylinder and clamp the sensor to the air pistol. For other pistols, just clamp it on as close to the trigger guard as possible. The cable is run back along the athlete's arm and around their shoulders so that there is no weight effect of the cable and so that there is no swaying or other movement caused by an otherwise dangling cable.
Yes, there is a weight difference. No, it does not eliminate the value of using the trainer. The athlete's attitude about any perceived difference will cause problems, however. That's the key.
A week before she won women's air pistol at Nationals this year, Jodie Briggs used a Noptel system to evaluate her hold and technique. She did this in order to remind herself just how good her hold is and to remind her of other aspects of her shot delivery technique. Although the weight and balance were a bit different than she was used to, she ignored that and focused on the task at hand. Within a shot or two, she had forgotten about it and was on task.
A few years ago, Jamie Dickman noticed the weight difference when a Noptel was on her air rifle. She, too, ignored it and went to work. Though the session was very short, only ten shots, she was able to determine what was holding back her performance and was able to make appropriate adjustments to her shot process. Stuck around 390 at the time, she returned to her old form and fired a 397 the next day in competition and went on from there. She said the difference was because of what she was able to see with the Noptel the day before.
In both cases, the athletes immediately noticed the weight difference. In both cases, they ignored it and went to work. They treated it just like any other "difference" that they are faced with each time they compete. In both cases, the knowledge gained, and the positive effect on their confidence, allowed them to improve their game. That was their opinion, not mine.
Yes, one can argue that even the slightest change in weight or balance has an effect, and make technical arguments about such things. Others prefer to focus on results.
All three of the top electronic trainers will do an excellent job. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. Download the software for each (it's free and legal) and check each one out.
Of the three, Noptel was on the scene first and has excelllent software and a well thought out set of statistics and graphics. It also is industrial grade in its design and construction. This comes with a price, of course! Skatt and Rika are also excellent systems and at less cost. Again, each has its strengths and weaknesses. Regardless, the minuses are slight in all cases and any of the three will do an excellent job for you.
Disclosure: Although I know the president of Noptel and sometimes import new units directly when friends ask me to, I am not in the business of making a living from selling electronic trainers. I bought my first Noptel (at full retail at the old higher prices) years before and still personally prefer the Noptel hardware and software. In spite of this, I often recommend the Scatt or Rika to others due to the price difference. I often end up helping users learn how to use their Noptel trainers, even though they bought them elsewhere. Rika and Skatt enjoy excellent support here in the USA as well from their retailers.
Like I said, all three do a great job. Just don't sell the Noptel or any other sytem short for a reason that doesn't hold water in practice. To improve, focus on the practical matters of shooting well.
"Feel Center!"
-JP
jpoc-at-acm.org.46144.46068
The vast majority of electronic trainer work is done in dry fire mode. Simply remove the air or CO2 cylinder and clamp the sensor to the air pistol. For other pistols, just clamp it on as close to the trigger guard as possible. The cable is run back along the athlete's arm and around their shoulders so that there is no weight effect of the cable and so that there is no swaying or other movement caused by an otherwise dangling cable.
Yes, there is a weight difference. No, it does not eliminate the value of using the trainer. The athlete's attitude about any perceived difference will cause problems, however. That's the key.
A week before she won women's air pistol at Nationals this year, Jodie Briggs used a Noptel system to evaluate her hold and technique. She did this in order to remind herself just how good her hold is and to remind her of other aspects of her shot delivery technique. Although the weight and balance were a bit different than she was used to, she ignored that and focused on the task at hand. Within a shot or two, she had forgotten about it and was on task.
A few years ago, Jamie Dickman noticed the weight difference when a Noptel was on her air rifle. She, too, ignored it and went to work. Though the session was very short, only ten shots, she was able to determine what was holding back her performance and was able to make appropriate adjustments to her shot process. Stuck around 390 at the time, she returned to her old form and fired a 397 the next day in competition and went on from there. She said the difference was because of what she was able to see with the Noptel the day before.
In both cases, the athletes immediately noticed the weight difference. In both cases, they ignored it and went to work. They treated it just like any other "difference" that they are faced with each time they compete. In both cases, the knowledge gained, and the positive effect on their confidence, allowed them to improve their game. That was their opinion, not mine.
Yes, one can argue that even the slightest change in weight or balance has an effect, and make technical arguments about such things. Others prefer to focus on results.
All three of the top electronic trainers will do an excellent job. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. Download the software for each (it's free and legal) and check each one out.
Of the three, Noptel was on the scene first and has excelllent software and a well thought out set of statistics and graphics. It also is industrial grade in its design and construction. This comes with a price, of course! Skatt and Rika are also excellent systems and at less cost. Again, each has its strengths and weaknesses. Regardless, the minuses are slight in all cases and any of the three will do an excellent job for you.
Disclosure: Although I know the president of Noptel and sometimes import new units directly when friends ask me to, I am not in the business of making a living from selling electronic trainers. I bought my first Noptel (at full retail at the old higher prices) years before and still personally prefer the Noptel hardware and software. In spite of this, I often recommend the Scatt or Rika to others due to the price difference. I often end up helping users learn how to use their Noptel trainers, even though they bought them elsewhere. Rika and Skatt enjoy excellent support here in the USA as well from their retailers.
Like I said, all three do a great job. Just don't sell the Noptel or any other sytem short for a reason that doesn't hold water in practice. To improve, focus on the practical matters of shooting well.
"Feel Center!"
-JP
jpoc-at-acm.org.46144.46068
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Marcus
Re: Hey, Marcus
Michael,
Start the SCATT software and select the Tools menu item and then Print target...
Select the target NRA-A-36 50 feet
Choose either the format you want. 10 meter is the large format and 5 meter is the small format (like 10 meter ISSF air rifle single bull target size).
Then input the distance from shooter to target frame 15.24 meters.
clicking on >> will show a small print preview.
Click Print to get a dialog box for your default printer.
There is nothing to adjust with the software when changing the distance. Since it is angular error the distance is really immaterial to the software (except for signal strength). The size of the apparent target is important so the shooter sees the correct relationship.
If you don't have the NRA targets, you can download them from the link below.
You must close and restart the SCATT program for it to recognize the new targets.
: Marcus, how do you scale the target as shown on the screen or compensate for shooting with the Scatt at odd distances (eg, A-36 at 10m or 16m)? Vladimir told me to contact you about that.
: Please email as I don't check here too often.
.46145.46138
Start the SCATT software and select the Tools menu item and then Print target...
Select the target NRA-A-36 50 feet
Choose either the format you want. 10 meter is the large format and 5 meter is the small format (like 10 meter ISSF air rifle single bull target size).
Then input the distance from shooter to target frame 15.24 meters.
clicking on >> will show a small print preview.
Click Print to get a dialog box for your default printer.
There is nothing to adjust with the software when changing the distance. Since it is angular error the distance is really immaterial to the software (except for signal strength). The size of the apparent target is important so the shooter sees the correct relationship.
If you don't have the NRA targets, you can download them from the link below.
You must close and restart the SCATT program for it to recognize the new targets.
: Marcus, how do you scale the target as shown on the screen or compensate for shooting with the Scatt at odd distances (eg, A-36 at 10m or 16m)? Vladimir told me to contact you about that.
: Please email as I don't check here too often.
.46145.46138
-
Geoff H
Re: What is the best Scatt system or rika?
I have used both extensively, presently own a SCATT.
You cannot go wrong with either (or for that matter the NOPTEL). They are all good. Sure there are differences between them and user preferences will make one more preferable over another, but on the whole, I believe anybody would be happy with any of them.
.46164.46095
You cannot go wrong with either (or for that matter the NOPTEL). They are all good. Sure there are differences between them and user preferences will make one more preferable over another, but on the whole, I believe anybody would be happy with any of them.
.46164.46095