It looks quite expensive to conduct a PTO and I think it unfair that all competitors in an air pistol match be expected to pay the following costs when they have no interest in, or ability to, go on to the next step in the process:
1) USA Shooting membership
2) Competitor fee
3) Match sanctioning fee
It also is wrong to expect this majority to subsidize the one or two olympic hopefuls with their own out of pocket expenses.
What is the prevailing attitude toward PTOs at air pistol matches? Are air pistol PTOs conducted in such a way that the olympic hopefuls pay the total PTO costs while the rest of the competitors in the match pay the normal match fee and do not have their scores submitted for the PTO?
SmallTarget-at-hotmail.com.45606.0
PTO Question
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
PETE
Making a bit of a leap?
I think it is a bit of a leap to go from the match fees and expenses to subsidizing an Olympic athlete. Consider this: If you want to get together with some freinds and do some match like AP matches, you only have to support the range facilities and pay for the targets. Go to it and have fun. For many of us in the long run, this is perhaps all we need. We are not going to be champions except for the local matches.
But what are the rules? How do you conduct the match?
The match fees go to supporting the publishing of rule books, paying the staff, the website, publication of the match, and the structure of the sport. That is why we form organizations, to provide a structure and format. If you are not going to support the sanctioning organization, you may have a nice match, do it well, but it is just your match.
Micheal Jordan may have been one of the greatest basketball players in the NBA. Very few of us will make it to the NBA. But the structure of the sport, which we support by playing in organized leagues and going to NBA games etc. gives us a context of not necessarily direct comparison to Micheal Jordan, but at least there is a structure provided so we play a similiar game.
My key point: match fees and memberships primarily support the USAS organization.
: It looks quite expensive to conduct a PTO and I think it unfair that all competitors in an air pistol match be expected to pay the following costs when they have no interest in, or ability to, go on to the next step in the process:
: 1) USA Shooting membership
: 2) Competitor fee
: 3) Match sanctioning fee
: It also is wrong to expect this majority to subsidize the one or two olympic hopefuls with their own out of pocket expenses.
: What is the prevailing attitude toward PTOs at air pistol matches? Are air pistol PTOs conducted in such a way that the olympic hopefuls pay the total PTO costs while the rest of the competitors in the match pay the normal match fee and do not have their scores submitted for the PTO?
.45607.45606
But what are the rules? How do you conduct the match?
The match fees go to supporting the publishing of rule books, paying the staff, the website, publication of the match, and the structure of the sport. That is why we form organizations, to provide a structure and format. If you are not going to support the sanctioning organization, you may have a nice match, do it well, but it is just your match.
Micheal Jordan may have been one of the greatest basketball players in the NBA. Very few of us will make it to the NBA. But the structure of the sport, which we support by playing in organized leagues and going to NBA games etc. gives us a context of not necessarily direct comparison to Micheal Jordan, but at least there is a structure provided so we play a similiar game.
My key point: match fees and memberships primarily support the USAS organization.
: It looks quite expensive to conduct a PTO and I think it unfair that all competitors in an air pistol match be expected to pay the following costs when they have no interest in, or ability to, go on to the next step in the process:
: 1) USA Shooting membership
: 2) Competitor fee
: 3) Match sanctioning fee
: It also is wrong to expect this majority to subsidize the one or two olympic hopefuls with their own out of pocket expenses.
: What is the prevailing attitude toward PTOs at air pistol matches? Are air pistol PTOs conducted in such a way that the olympic hopefuls pay the total PTO costs while the rest of the competitors in the match pay the normal match fee and do not have their scores submitted for the PTO?
.45607.45606
-
Rudy Smith
There is no leap at all.
A PTO only benefits those who hope to compete in the olympics and those whose club affiliations include USA Shooting. For the rest of the competitors (85 to 90 percent, as far as I can tell), it only doubles their match fees per match, and requires an annual membership in USA Shooting. This additional expense does not benefit them, so in effect they would be subsidising the few who do value the PTO.
This is not a question of idealism, it is a practical financial matter. Since I am responsible for setting match fees, I have to work in the best interest of all competitors, not just the best ones.
Since the olympic hopefuls are exceptional individuals, it would be most practical to not accommodate them at all. What I am trying to do is to find a practical way of accommodating this minority of shooters, and to do so in a fair way.
.45611.45607
This is not a question of idealism, it is a practical financial matter. Since I am responsible for setting match fees, I have to work in the best interest of all competitors, not just the best ones.
Since the olympic hopefuls are exceptional individuals, it would be most practical to not accommodate them at all. What I am trying to do is to find a practical way of accommodating this minority of shooters, and to do so in a fair way.
.45611.45607
-
LesJ
Re: There is no leap at all.
: A PTO only benefits those who hope to compete in the olympics and those whose club affiliations include USA Shooting. This additional expense does not benefit them, so in effect they would be subsidising the few who do value the PTO.
You could not be more wrong. More than 90% of the shooters that shoot PTO do not plan on competing in Olympics. Instead of just aimlessly shoot matches one can have a drive to improve his or hers shooting skills and progress in classification. That provides for some kind of true competition. It provide you with competitions ranging from local PTO through more important regional and national matches and if you are lucky enough international ( we will have three good shooters from Mexico at our next State Championship).
: This is not a question of idealism, it is a practical financial matter. Since I am responsible for setting match fees, I have to work in the best interest of all competitors, not just the best ones.
: Since the olympic hopefuls are exceptional individuals, it would be most practical to not accommodate them at all. What I am trying to do is to find a practical way of accommodating this minority of shooters, and to do so in a fair way.
As the organizer you can control match fees. I run PTOs in addition to our regular PTO and I am able to keep the cost to $7.00 per event. That is only slightly less than regular PTO run by the club. Having top shooters shoot with average shooters is beneficial to both sides. How - you can learn a lot from them if you want to.
.45613.45611
You could not be more wrong. More than 90% of the shooters that shoot PTO do not plan on competing in Olympics. Instead of just aimlessly shoot matches one can have a drive to improve his or hers shooting skills and progress in classification. That provides for some kind of true competition. It provide you with competitions ranging from local PTO through more important regional and national matches and if you are lucky enough international ( we will have three good shooters from Mexico at our next State Championship).
: This is not a question of idealism, it is a practical financial matter. Since I am responsible for setting match fees, I have to work in the best interest of all competitors, not just the best ones.
: Since the olympic hopefuls are exceptional individuals, it would be most practical to not accommodate them at all. What I am trying to do is to find a practical way of accommodating this minority of shooters, and to do so in a fair way.
As the organizer you can control match fees. I run PTOs in addition to our regular PTO and I am able to keep the cost to $7.00 per event. That is only slightly less than regular PTO run by the club. Having top shooters shoot with average shooters is beneficial to both sides. How - you can learn a lot from them if you want to.
.45613.45611
-
Rudy Smith
Thank you for that constructive information
I will survey the competitors to learn whether they have any interest in sanctioning with USA Shooting or NRA.
.45615.45613
.45615.45613
-
akihmsa
USAS Fees are in line with NRA, IHMSA etc.
Hi Rudy
IF you check around you will see that the fees are in line with most other sanctioned events. To shoot in the International Handgun Metalic Silhouette Association (IHMSA), for example cost you a yearly membership of $30 plus a $1 for each entry fired which for most folks is about $3 per match. This gets your name in the paper and covers the cost of publishing the paper. I really don't see how it can be done for much less. It really boils down to priorities. I know of many fellow shooters (trigger pullers that like to make noise) who complain over match fees and membership costs yet think nothing of spending $50 to go out to dinner and go watch a movie, Playing a round of golf, or do a night of bowling.
In my experience without sanction, few will show up beyond a few times for a local "shoot", after all they can shoot an air gun in their garage so if spending on sanction fees is distasteful they won't want to pay to cover the overhead of the local match either. TANSTAAFL : It looks quite expensive to conduct a PTO and I think it unfair that all competitors in an air pistol match be expected to pay the following costs when they have no interest in, or ability to, go on to the next step in the process:
: 1) USA Shooting membership
: 2) Competitor fee
: 3) Match sanctioning fee
: It also is wrong to expect this majority to subsidize the one or two olympic hopefuls with their own out of pocket expenses.
: What is the prevailing attitude toward PTOs at air pistol matches? Are air pistol PTOs conducted in such a way that the olympic hopefuls pay the total PTO costs while the rest of the competitors in the match pay the normal match fee and do not have their scores submitted for the PTO?
.45616.45606
IF you check around you will see that the fees are in line with most other sanctioned events. To shoot in the International Handgun Metalic Silhouette Association (IHMSA), for example cost you a yearly membership of $30 plus a $1 for each entry fired which for most folks is about $3 per match. This gets your name in the paper and covers the cost of publishing the paper. I really don't see how it can be done for much less. It really boils down to priorities. I know of many fellow shooters (trigger pullers that like to make noise) who complain over match fees and membership costs yet think nothing of spending $50 to go out to dinner and go watch a movie, Playing a round of golf, or do a night of bowling.
In my experience without sanction, few will show up beyond a few times for a local "shoot", after all they can shoot an air gun in their garage so if spending on sanction fees is distasteful they won't want to pay to cover the overhead of the local match either. TANSTAAFL : It looks quite expensive to conduct a PTO and I think it unfair that all competitors in an air pistol match be expected to pay the following costs when they have no interest in, or ability to, go on to the next step in the process:
: 1) USA Shooting membership
: 2) Competitor fee
: 3) Match sanctioning fee
: It also is wrong to expect this majority to subsidize the one or two olympic hopefuls with their own out of pocket expenses.
: What is the prevailing attitude toward PTOs at air pistol matches? Are air pistol PTOs conducted in such a way that the olympic hopefuls pay the total PTO costs while the rest of the competitors in the match pay the normal match fee and do not have their scores submitted for the PTO?
.45616.45606
-
akihmsa
Re: There is no leap at all.
Be very careful about using the "doing things in a fair way" arguement. This is the worn out excuse for all to ride on the backs of those that actually do something. I hear often that it is "unfair" for those who go to work 40 to 50 hours a week to have health insurance while those who do not work don't have coverage. It is "unfair" for those who work hard in school to get better grades than those who do not. It is "unfair" for those who drive bigger cars to get hurt less in accidents than those who drive econo boxes etc. etc. etc. Generally when one argues on the "fairness" soap box I find they want to get into someone elses pocket book and love to eat "free" lunches. (Nothing is free including freedom somebody always pays the cost)
: A PTO only benefits those who hope to compete in the olympics and those whose club affiliations include USA Shooting. For the rest of the competitors (85 to 90 percent, as far as I can tell), it only doubles their match fees per match, and requires an annual membership in USA Shooting. This additional expense does not benefit them, so in effect they would be subsidising the few who do value the PTO.
: This is not a question of idealism, it is a practical financial matter. Since I am responsible for setting match fees, I have to work in the best interest of all competitors, not just the best ones.
: Since the olympic hopefuls are exceptional individuals, it would be most practical to not accommodate them at all. What I am trying to do is to find a practical way of accommodating this minority of shooters, and to do so in a fair way.
.45618.45611
: A PTO only benefits those who hope to compete in the olympics and those whose club affiliations include USA Shooting. For the rest of the competitors (85 to 90 percent, as far as I can tell), it only doubles their match fees per match, and requires an annual membership in USA Shooting. This additional expense does not benefit them, so in effect they would be subsidising the few who do value the PTO.
: This is not a question of idealism, it is a practical financial matter. Since I am responsible for setting match fees, I have to work in the best interest of all competitors, not just the best ones.
: Since the olympic hopefuls are exceptional individuals, it would be most practical to not accommodate them at all. What I am trying to do is to find a practical way of accommodating this minority of shooters, and to do so in a fair way.
.45618.45611
-
Richard Ashmore
PTO Question
At my club the entry fee for this month's USA Shooting Air Pistol PTO is $5.00. For that fee there won't be prizes, but everyone realizes that.
Yes, you have to be a USA Shooting member. Big Deal:-) To shoot in a registered NRA tournament you have to be an NRA member. I'll bet other organizations have similar requirements.
GOVTMODEL-at-budweiser.com.45620.45606
Yes, you have to be a USA Shooting member. Big Deal:-) To shoot in a registered NRA tournament you have to be an NRA member. I'll bet other organizations have similar requirements.
GOVTMODEL-at-budweiser.com.45620.45606
-
Rodm
Re: PTO Question
: It looks quite expensive to conduct a PTO and I think it unfair that all competitors in an air pistol match be expected to pay the following costs when they have no interest in, or ability to, go on to the next step in the process:
: 1) USA Shooting membership
: 2) Competitor fee
: 3) Match sanctioning fee
On the other hand this is an Air Pistol match only, No FP, SP, RF, or Sport. This means that the cost for each competitor is more than doubled, and that does not include the membership fees. I believe that it will turn away far more shooters than it will attract. If 20 shooters turn up for a friendly unsanctioned match and 3 for a sanctioned match it doesn't promote the sport. Ask the competitors who are coming if they want to support a PTO or not. Will enough support a PTO to make it worth while? If it is optional to participate in the PTO will enough be willing to support the effort. I will redealy admit that I am not willing to pay $45 + just to shoot one match. I would hate to see a bunch of shooters priced out of the oppertunity to attend a match.
Rodm
: It also is wrong to expect this majority to subsidize the one or two olympic hopefuls with their own out of pocket expenses.
: What is the prevailing attitude toward PTOs at air pistol matches? Are air pistol PTOs conducted in such a way that the olympic hopefuls pay the total PTO costs while the rest of the competitors in the match pay the normal match fee and do not have their scores submitted for the PTO?
ramadsen-at-iname.com.45625.45606
: 1) USA Shooting membership
: 2) Competitor fee
: 3) Match sanctioning fee
On the other hand this is an Air Pistol match only, No FP, SP, RF, or Sport. This means that the cost for each competitor is more than doubled, and that does not include the membership fees. I believe that it will turn away far more shooters than it will attract. If 20 shooters turn up for a friendly unsanctioned match and 3 for a sanctioned match it doesn't promote the sport. Ask the competitors who are coming if they want to support a PTO or not. Will enough support a PTO to make it worth while? If it is optional to participate in the PTO will enough be willing to support the effort. I will redealy admit that I am not willing to pay $45 + just to shoot one match. I would hate to see a bunch of shooters priced out of the oppertunity to attend a match.
Rodm
: It also is wrong to expect this majority to subsidize the one or two olympic hopefuls with their own out of pocket expenses.
: What is the prevailing attitude toward PTOs at air pistol matches? Are air pistol PTOs conducted in such a way that the olympic hopefuls pay the total PTO costs while the rest of the competitors in the match pay the normal match fee and do not have their scores submitted for the PTO?
ramadsen-at-iname.com.45625.45606
-
Rudy Smith
Exactly.
That's the problem, exactly. I know I wouldn't participate in it at all if the fees were that high. I'd like to hold a PTO if the people who really want one are willing to pay for it.
USA Shooting says there's no minimum number of competitors, so there may be a way of splitting the match so that it is both a PTO for those who want it, and just a regular match for those who don't. The only difference is that some competitors are paying more than the rest.
.45627.45625
USA Shooting says there's no minimum number of competitors, so there may be a way of splitting the match so that it is both a PTO for those who want it, and just a regular match for those who don't. The only difference is that some competitors are paying more than the rest.
.45627.45625
-
Rudy Smith
Re: PTO Question
Richard:
How do you keep the cost so low? According to the USA Shooting web site, the cost per match per competitor is $6.
Here, the matches cost $8, this defrays the cost of targets, postage, range fees, and equipment such as portable lights and extension cords. There is no profit to the match organizer.
For a competitor who is not a member of USA Shooting, we would have to add $6 per match, plus approximately $1 to defray the cost of annual club affiliation with USA Shooting. In addition, each competitor would have to pay an annual membership fee of $35 to USA Shooting.
For a three-match-per-year competitor, this raises the cost per match from $8 to $27. That's a lot of money to have somebody track your classification.
Most of the shooters in these matches are already NRA memebers, so another option is to sanction through the NRA, which whould at least eliminate the need for a second membership.
I'm just running the numbers and I find them unfavorable.
Rudy
.45630.45620
How do you keep the cost so low? According to the USA Shooting web site, the cost per match per competitor is $6.
Here, the matches cost $8, this defrays the cost of targets, postage, range fees, and equipment such as portable lights and extension cords. There is no profit to the match organizer.
For a competitor who is not a member of USA Shooting, we would have to add $6 per match, plus approximately $1 to defray the cost of annual club affiliation with USA Shooting. In addition, each competitor would have to pay an annual membership fee of $35 to USA Shooting.
For a three-match-per-year competitor, this raises the cost per match from $8 to $27. That's a lot of money to have somebody track your classification.
Most of the shooters in these matches are already NRA memebers, so another option is to sanction through the NRA, which whould at least eliminate the need for a second membership.
I'm just running the numbers and I find them unfavorable.
Rudy
.45630.45620
-
Rudy Smith
Those are good points.
The only answer here is to let the competitors decide. Currently the matches are unsanctioned to keep the cost low. The competitors typically have a primary interest in another game and only shoot air pistol because it's available.
The question is not whether the cost of sanctioned matches are in line with, say IHMSA. Rather, the issue is whether the market will bear the cost of higher air pistol matches.
I am finding that the economic ironies of the situation are remarkable. For example, the cost of having the match at a dedicated pistol range are significantly lower than matches held at a popular, but makeshift, indoor facility that can be rented for a morning.
Thanks for the insight.
.45631.45616
The question is not whether the cost of sanctioned matches are in line with, say IHMSA. Rather, the issue is whether the market will bear the cost of higher air pistol matches.
I am finding that the economic ironies of the situation are remarkable. For example, the cost of having the match at a dedicated pistol range are significantly lower than matches held at a popular, but makeshift, indoor facility that can be rented for a morning.
Thanks for the insight.
.45631.45616
-
Richard Ashmore
Re: PTO Question
Our club hosts air rifle and air pistol PTO's, so the club is affiliated.
This particular event is being subsidized by the Pistol Team, our normal fee is $10, which just doesn't get anyone excited around here. A lot cheaper than a 2700, which typicaly costs ~$45 in this area.
govtmodel-at-budweiser.com.45632.45630
This particular event is being subsidized by the Pistol Team, our normal fee is $10, which just doesn't get anyone excited around here. A lot cheaper than a 2700, which typicaly costs ~$45 in this area.
govtmodel-at-budweiser.com.45632.45630
-
Rudy Smith
Another question
Here, a 2700 is $20 and it is highly regarded as a game. Indoor 1800s are also $20. It's a heck of a deal.
Air pistol just doesn't get the respect it deserves. I think it may be because the options for firearms games are so good. Action pistol and bullseye dominate. And really, they should. The facilities here are so good and the dedication is so high.
We have one of the best shooting facilities in the country in this state and there wasn't enough interest in air pistol last year to make a quorum of volunteers to run a state championship. What state are you in? I'm in Minnesota. I'd like to know more about how your club operates.
.45633.45632
Air pistol just doesn't get the respect it deserves. I think it may be because the options for firearms games are so good. Action pistol and bullseye dominate. And really, they should. The facilities here are so good and the dedication is so high.
We have one of the best shooting facilities in the country in this state and there wasn't enough interest in air pistol last year to make a quorum of volunteers to run a state championship. What state are you in? I'm in Minnesota. I'd like to know more about how your club operates.
.45633.45632
-
akihmsa
Re: Those are good points.
Hi Rudy
I run into the same situation and have found that it doesn't pay to go to low in cost. Those who want to shoot are going to see very little difference in $2 or $5 compared to the cost of simply getting to the facility (whether it is a range or any other indoor space). If you are shooting at a regular indoor range and no powder shooting is going on then you don't have the expense of the air filter equipment to cover. Shooting is a social event and to many who simply like to shoot, it makes no difference whether that the power comes from compressed air, smokeless powder or blackpowder. All are equal when it comes to poking holes in a piece of paper. When I started up the AIR division of the IHMSA many thought it would simply be a way to stay fresh for the "real" season of Center fire Handguns. What many have found is that the air guns are just as much fun! I find the single discipline only crowd to be a bore anyway. I enjoy shooting period, whether it is airguns, shotguns, pistol, rifle, archery, heck I even enjoy slingshots!
: The only answer here is to let the competitors decide. Currently the matches are unsanctioned to keep the cost low. The competitors typically have a primary interest in another game and only shoot air pistol because it's available.
: The question is not whether the cost of sanctioned matches are in line with, say IHMSA. Rather, the issue is whether the market will bear the cost of higher air pistol matches.
: I am finding that the economic ironies of the situation are remarkable. For example, the cost of having the match at a dedicated pistol range are significantly lower than matches held at a popular, but makeshift, indoor facility that can be rented for a morning.
: Thanks for the insight.
.45634.45631
I run into the same situation and have found that it doesn't pay to go to low in cost. Those who want to shoot are going to see very little difference in $2 or $5 compared to the cost of simply getting to the facility (whether it is a range or any other indoor space). If you are shooting at a regular indoor range and no powder shooting is going on then you don't have the expense of the air filter equipment to cover. Shooting is a social event and to many who simply like to shoot, it makes no difference whether that the power comes from compressed air, smokeless powder or blackpowder. All are equal when it comes to poking holes in a piece of paper. When I started up the AIR division of the IHMSA many thought it would simply be a way to stay fresh for the "real" season of Center fire Handguns. What many have found is that the air guns are just as much fun! I find the single discipline only crowd to be a bore anyway. I enjoy shooting period, whether it is airguns, shotguns, pistol, rifle, archery, heck I even enjoy slingshots!
: The only answer here is to let the competitors decide. Currently the matches are unsanctioned to keep the cost low. The competitors typically have a primary interest in another game and only shoot air pistol because it's available.
: The question is not whether the cost of sanctioned matches are in line with, say IHMSA. Rather, the issue is whether the market will bear the cost of higher air pistol matches.
: I am finding that the economic ironies of the situation are remarkable. For example, the cost of having the match at a dedicated pistol range are significantly lower than matches held at a popular, but makeshift, indoor facility that can be rented for a morning.
: Thanks for the insight.
.45634.45631
-
akihmsa
Re: Exactly.
The real question to me is "What constitutes a match?" There needs to be more than just a bunch of guys getting together to shoot and make noise. What many of this type of shooter (duffer) fails to comprehend is that there is value in trying to reach a goal. My shooting took a turn for the better once I started shooting in sanctioned events. There are two reasons for this. The first is that I actually started to pay attention knowing my scores would be posted. The second and often overlooked is that you get to see shooters who are very good at the sport. I make it a habit to watch the best and try to understand what makes them better than I am at putting a shot in the middle. I have learned a lot from this and would not trade the knowledge gained for several thousand $. Why do you think little league games are free to spectators and you have to pay to see a Major league game?
Try this. Pay out the entry fee to the shooter that is most improved after the 3rd match. : That's the problem, exactly. I know I wouldn't participate in it at all if the fees were that high. I'd like to hold a PTO if the people who really want one are willing to pay for it.
: USA Shooting says there's no minimum number of competitors, so there may be a way of splitting the match so that it is both a PTO for those who want it, and just a regular match for those who don't. The only difference is that some competitors are paying more than the rest.
.45636.45627
Try this. Pay out the entry fee to the shooter that is most improved after the 3rd match. : That's the problem, exactly. I know I wouldn't participate in it at all if the fees were that high. I'd like to hold a PTO if the people who really want one are willing to pay for it.
: USA Shooting says there's no minimum number of competitors, so there may be a way of splitting the match so that it is both a PTO for those who want it, and just a regular match for those who don't. The only difference is that some competitors are paying more than the rest.
.45636.45627
-
akihmsa
Re: Another question, another answer
Rudy
You have me rolling on the floor with laughter. I hear the same blather here in Alaska. For a 2700 add up the numbers. $20 for entry fees, $35 for NRA membership plus the book. Then add to that the cost of just the ammo. 90 rounds of .22 assuming just run of the mill target ammo $6, 180 rounds of center fire, at least $25 plus the sighters so figure about $35 for ammo in total. That first 2700 costs the shooter $120 each year. Additional matches are over $50 apiece. Not to mention time spent on the reloading bench, which isn't free either by the way ;~)
The first AP PTO is going to cost $35 for the membership, $6 for the entry fee plus your club fee of say $5. Ammo for 60 shots is going to be about $1! Total for the first AP match of the season $42, each additional match ~ $12
Now which match is Expensive??? Does this mean I am against Bullseye? Nope, but don't complain about the costs of shooting AP if you accept the very high cost of B.E. : Here, a 2700 is $20 and it is highly regarded as a game. Indoor 1800s are also $20. It's a heck of a deal.
: Air pistol just doesn't get the respect it deserves. I think it may be because the options for firearms games are so good. Action pistol and bullseye dominate. And really, they should. The facilities here are so good and the dedication is so high.
: We have one of the best shooting facilities in the country in this state and there wasn't enough interest in air pistol last year to make a quorum of volunteers to run a state championship. What state are you in? I'm in Minnesota. I'd like to know more about how your club operates.
.45638.45633
You have me rolling on the floor with laughter. I hear the same blather here in Alaska. For a 2700 add up the numbers. $20 for entry fees, $35 for NRA membership plus the book. Then add to that the cost of just the ammo. 90 rounds of .22 assuming just run of the mill target ammo $6, 180 rounds of center fire, at least $25 plus the sighters so figure about $35 for ammo in total. That first 2700 costs the shooter $120 each year. Additional matches are over $50 apiece. Not to mention time spent on the reloading bench, which isn't free either by the way ;~)
The first AP PTO is going to cost $35 for the membership, $6 for the entry fee plus your club fee of say $5. Ammo for 60 shots is going to be about $1! Total for the first AP match of the season $42, each additional match ~ $12
Now which match is Expensive??? Does this mean I am against Bullseye? Nope, but don't complain about the costs of shooting AP if you accept the very high cost of B.E. : Here, a 2700 is $20 and it is highly regarded as a game. Indoor 1800s are also $20. It's a heck of a deal.
: Air pistol just doesn't get the respect it deserves. I think it may be because the options for firearms games are so good. Action pistol and bullseye dominate. And really, they should. The facilities here are so good and the dedication is so high.
: We have one of the best shooting facilities in the country in this state and there wasn't enough interest in air pistol last year to make a quorum of volunteers to run a state championship. What state are you in? I'm in Minnesota. I'd like to know more about how your club operates.
.45638.45633
-
Rudy Smith
Re: Another question, another answer
I'm glad you have such a sense of humor, but the reality is that bullsye is popular, silhoutte is popular, and air pistol is dismally unpopular, and is of secondary importance to most shooters. It would scarcely be missed if it were to disappear altogether.
The reason for the original post was motivated by a desire to accommodate the best shooters while maintaining and perhaps increasing participation by the rest. If that is, in your opinion, blather, then further correspondence between us serves no constructive purpose.
.45640.45638
The reason for the original post was motivated by a desire to accommodate the best shooters while maintaining and perhaps increasing participation by the rest. If that is, in your opinion, blather, then further correspondence between us serves no constructive purpose.
.45640.45638
-
Don
Re: PTO Question
: Richard:
: How do you keep the cost so low? According to the USA Shooting web site, the cost per match per competitor is $6.
: Here, the matches cost $8, this defrays the cost of targets, postage, range fees, and equipment such as portable lights and extension cords. There is no profit to the match organizer.
: For a competitor who is not a member of USA Shooting, we would have to add $6 per match, plus approximately $1 to defray the cost of annual club affiliation with USA Shooting. In addition, each competitor would have to pay an annual membership fee of $35 to USA Shooting.
: For a three-match-per-year competitor, this raises the cost per match from $8 to $27. That's a lot of money to have somebody track your classification.
: Most of the shooters in these matches are already NRA memebers, so another option is to sanction through the NRA, which whould at least eliminate the need for a second membership.
: I'm just running the numbers and I find them unfavorable.
: Rudy
You people are crying about a few $'s to shoot matches. Shooting is still, after you purchase the equipment, one of the cheapest sports to take part in that there is. I am glad I am not a horse person or a tennis or golf person. If you don't want to join USAS or NRA to shoot matches, then just get a fe pals together and go out in the back yard and shoot cans or bottle caps. You enter a match to prove something to yourself, if not others around you. Quite bitching and join and compete. Can't hurt, and you may actually improve!!!
.45641.45630
: How do you keep the cost so low? According to the USA Shooting web site, the cost per match per competitor is $6.
: Here, the matches cost $8, this defrays the cost of targets, postage, range fees, and equipment such as portable lights and extension cords. There is no profit to the match organizer.
: For a competitor who is not a member of USA Shooting, we would have to add $6 per match, plus approximately $1 to defray the cost of annual club affiliation with USA Shooting. In addition, each competitor would have to pay an annual membership fee of $35 to USA Shooting.
: For a three-match-per-year competitor, this raises the cost per match from $8 to $27. That's a lot of money to have somebody track your classification.
: Most of the shooters in these matches are already NRA memebers, so another option is to sanction through the NRA, which whould at least eliminate the need for a second membership.
: I'm just running the numbers and I find them unfavorable.
: Rudy
You people are crying about a few $'s to shoot matches. Shooting is still, after you purchase the equipment, one of the cheapest sports to take part in that there is. I am glad I am not a horse person or a tennis or golf person. If you don't want to join USAS or NRA to shoot matches, then just get a fe pals together and go out in the back yard and shoot cans or bottle caps. You enter a match to prove something to yourself, if not others around you. Quite bitching and join and compete. Can't hurt, and you may actually improve!!!
.45641.45630