One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
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One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
Greetings--Just reaching out for some feedback in my quest. I have two daughters (12 and 14) that are currently shooting Walther LG 400 Alutec Air Rifles. Both have been successful but want to shoot more smallbore. But as we all know this sport is expensive. After the purchase of the air rifles, jackets, pants, etc.., funding is an issue. Does anyone have suggestions for the possible sharing of a smallbore for a lefty and righty to at least get them started? They are beyond the 1903 Junior that is ambidextrious but would it be possible to make it work?I know the bolt is the main issue for the lefty and the whole idea isn't ideal, but do you believe it is feasible? I have searched high and low locally and online for decent priced used options with no luck. Any insight is appreciated.
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
If a 1903 Junior is too small, there aren't many ambidextrous options. The only truly ambidextrous smallbores are the Walther KK500, the Feinwerkbau 2800, and the Martini actioned BSA12-12/15. The Walther and Feinwerkbau are excellent, but new and expensive, and the BSA is old, and lacks modern ergonomics. The arrangement of the locking lugs would make it very difficult, if not impossible, for a gunsmith to convert a conventional RH bolt action to ambidextrous operation. Conversions from RH to LH have been done, but these are permanent changes.
Have you thought of an RH rifle, and a separate LH stocks? Anschutz 54 stocks are largely interchangeable, so you could swap between the two. Then both could adjust their stock to suit their position with no compromise. An RH only bolt isn't ideal, but the lesser evil than the LH trying to cope with an RH stock; remember than many older wood Smallbore stocks are cast off (the butt angles out) for a right. If you can find one an extended crossover/under bolt handle would make life easier. At least if the LH daughter wants to continue, you can find a LH barrel/action in a few years.
Have you thought of an RH rifle, and a separate LH stocks? Anschutz 54 stocks are largely interchangeable, so you could swap between the two. Then both could adjust their stock to suit their position with no compromise. An RH only bolt isn't ideal, but the lesser evil than the LH trying to cope with an RH stock; remember than many older wood Smallbore stocks are cast off (the butt angles out) for a right. If you can find one an extended crossover/under bolt handle would make life easier. At least if the LH daughter wants to continue, you can find a LH barrel/action in a few years.
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
how about checking their "dominant eye" to see if they're both either left eye dominant or right eye dominant. if so, then have both girls shoot from the same side (the dominant side). this is not a common practice, but it is pragmatic. absent this, there is a "crossover conversion" (my words and not a technical description), so that the bolt on a right handed rifle can be cycled by a lefty. I saw it somewhere but you'll need to do some digging to find it.
Hammer to shape, file to fit, paint to match...
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
You *could* buy something like a KK500 and buy an extra LH grip. Cheek piece can be reversed for a LH shooter I think.
Also you can buy an accessory that attaches to the bold which will allow you to operate it from the left. I searched for it but couldn't find it but someone here might know.
Also you can buy an accessory that attaches to the bold which will allow you to operate it from the left. I searched for it but couldn't find it but someone here might know.
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
Thank you for the replies. Glad I asked-- it seems I was not exploring having one rifle and changing stocks or grips. That does open some new doors. Does anyone have experience with a lefty using a righty bolt? Any tips? She went from the Challenger to lefty Walther so she never had to do it before. Will she be breaking position a lot?
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
A lefty can work a RH bolt standing; if they use a rest they can use their right hand anyway. But it would be almost impossible to work a standard RH bolt left handed in the sling positions without taking the butt out of their shoulder. Also remember that most 0.22s don't have a symmetrical breech, and the receiver is higher on the right (RH gun). This means a lefty has to reach over to drop a cartridge into the breech.
If you are looking at second hand rifles, most RH wood stocks are very right handed. You can round off the right hand side of the cheekpiece. But some rifles won't have enough meat at the wrist to make an ambixtrous grip without being fragile.
Do consider a left-handed rearsight. A left can use a RH rearsight, but tey don't want to re-zero every time the other shoots.
If you are looking at second hand rifles, most RH wood stocks are very right handed. You can round off the right hand side of the cheekpiece. But some rifles won't have enough meat at the wrist to make an ambixtrous grip without being fragile.
Do consider a left-handed rearsight. A left can use a RH rearsight, but tey don't want to re-zero every time the other shoots.
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
The KK500 bolt is easy to convert from right to left and back (n.b. changing ejection direction is possible, but probably not practical on a frequent basis). R and L grips are easy to swap too.
Rear sights with 2 windage knobs are common, minimizing expense and how much they re-zero vs. swapping sights.
If they are used to the LG400s the Walther adjustments, ergonomics, triggers, etc. will also be familiar.
Glad you have both of them in the sport and look forward to meeting you at a match or camp/clinic!
Rear sights with 2 windage knobs are common, minimizing expense and how much they re-zero vs. swapping sights.
If they are used to the LG400s the Walther adjustments, ergonomics, triggers, etc. will also be familiar.
Glad you have both of them in the sport and look forward to meeting you at a match or camp/clinic!
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
The KK500 bolt is easy to convert from right to left and back (n.b. changing ejection direction is possible, but probably not practical on a frequent basis). R and L grips are easy to swap too.
Rear sights with 2 windage knobs are common, minimizing expense and how much they re-zero vs. swapping sights.
If they are used to the LG400s the Walther adjustments, ergonomics, triggers, etc. will also be familiar.
Glad you have both of them in the sport and look forward to meeting you at a match or camp/clinic!
Rear sights with 2 windage knobs are common, minimizing expense and how much they re-zero vs. swapping sights.
If they are used to the LG400s the Walther adjustments, ergonomics, triggers, etc. will also be familiar.
Glad you have both of them in the sport and look forward to meeting you at a match or camp/clinic!
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
They do appreciate the Walther air rifles they have to a point they might be spoiled. When we go to the local club and shoot the wood stock 1903 they complain about the fit. Staying with the Walther sounds logical.
Just wondering if changing the stock/ grip/bolt at a match is a real possibility. Where we shoot regularly one daughter would do the first relay in air and then do second smallbore. The other daughter would do the opposite. Is making the changeover in that time period practical?
Just wondering if changing the stock/ grip/bolt at a match is a real possibility. Where we shoot regularly one daughter would do the first relay in air and then do second smallbore. The other daughter would do the opposite. Is making the changeover in that time period practical?
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
The bolt can be switched in seconds using the bolt tool/rod guide supplied with the rifle.
The grip is attached with one screw, so an easy swap as well.
FYI, the grip angle is adjustable on a ball joint. Most athletes leave it in one setting for all 3 positions. It is likely your daughters could find one common position for both of them to use as the grips could also be modified individually (usually by more experienced athletes).
Given your stated budget constraints, you are probably starting with one buttplate and adjusting it as needed for all 3 positions (6 in your case).
The grip is attached with one screw, so an easy swap as well.
FYI, the grip angle is adjustable on a ball joint. Most athletes leave it in one setting for all 3 positions. It is likely your daughters could find one common position for both of them to use as the grips could also be modified individually (usually by more experienced athletes).
Given your stated budget constraints, you are probably starting with one buttplate and adjusting it as needed for all 3 positions (6 in your case).
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
I think you are better off just getting 2 rifles, if they want to compete you are going to have problems if they have to shoot at the same time.
If you really have to have one rifle only then here is my unconventional suggestion.
Get a Walter KK500 or Feinwerkbau 2800 barrel and actions which can be switched left and right.
Get this stock and ask them to machine bolt receivers on both sides:
https://www.shootingequipment.de/en/Wea ... e-22H.html
Get an extra left-handed back-end for the stock which gives you a separate butt, cheek piece and pistol grip:
https://www.shootingequipment.de/en/Wea ... shape.html
It is more expensive but far more convenient. MEC also has a similar and stock option with their Mark 1 which can be switched this way.
If you really have to have one rifle only then here is my unconventional suggestion.
Get a Walter KK500 or Feinwerkbau 2800 barrel and actions which can be switched left and right.
Get this stock and ask them to machine bolt receivers on both sides:
https://www.shootingequipment.de/en/Wea ... e-22H.html
Get an extra left-handed back-end for the stock which gives you a separate butt, cheek piece and pistol grip:
https://www.shootingequipment.de/en/Wea ... shape.html
It is more expensive but far more convenient. MEC also has a similar and stock option with their Mark 1 which can be switched this way.
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
You can get 2 of these:
https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/4800/716
Cheaper than 2 Annies or 2 FBs. It is a 1918 stock clone with a better barrel and action than both of them.
https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/4800/716
Cheaper than 2 Annies or 2 FBs. It is a 1918 stock clone with a better barrel and action than both of them.
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
I recently purchased KK300 Anatomic for $3600. I was also quoted KK300 Blacktek for $2500. If I were you, I would buy them each a Blacktek. That is $5000 for two nice rifles and both would be happy.
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
I shoot a slightly tuned Savage FVT a lot in Sport rifle. It is surprisingly good for a Beginners Rifle. All I did was drop in a rifle basix trigger and bolt it into a Boyd's stock.... If you have a limited budget, how about looking at 1 left hand gun, 1 right hand gun, 2 rifle basix triggers and 2 Boyd's AT1 stocks or something close... That comes in at about $1550 all up. The stock sights are pretty decent once you zero the gun... they aren't as good as an Anschutz, but they aren't priced like one either......... just thinking out loud
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
Starting to think there is no way around buying two. There has been and will be more times they are at different ranges as well as times I won't be with them to help with all the adjustments and switching things around. Also think it will be a nice legacy gift for them from dear old Dad. Perhaps the older daughter gets something nice now and the younger one gets the modified Savage that was mentioned.
A big thank you to all that gave me food for thought-it is appreciated.
A big thank you to all that gave me food for thought-it is appreciated.
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
You have made a right decision. Kids’ time is precious too. They don’t have to wait for turns to practice at home or at ranges. What you are giving them can be passed down to next the next generation.StuckinNY wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:55 pm Starting to think there is no way around buying two. There has been and will be more times they are at different ranges as well as times I won't be with them to help with all the adjustments and switching things around. Also think it will be a nice legacy gift for them from dear old Dad. Perhaps the older daughter gets something nice now and the younger one gets the modified Savage that was mentioned.
A big thank you to all that gave me food for thought-it is appreciated.
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James Storm
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:31 am
Re: One Left-One Right-One Smallbore??
People with more clout than I should seek out a film of Gary Anderson, a left handed shooter, and an extremely successful rifleman at the highest levels of competition, shooting a right handed actioned rifle. Anderson is said to not answer letters except from high ranking people, so perhaps people with titles could ask him for this favor to left handed shooters.