Izh 46m cock well no leak trigger well but not firing

[seamaster]

My Izh 46m is cocking well, no leak

Trigger seems to work well from off grip side view hole

But there is a dissociation between the two.

I lube it, tapped out lever pin, clean up piston valve. Nothing worked.

Wheris in US can fix this thing? Pilkgun? Mac-1?

[Gwhite]

There are two sears involved. Are you getting any click at all? If the trigger moves freely but doesn't do anything, I suspect the trigger sear is stuck.

Check this post & see if it helps:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... 8&#p206228

[seamaster]

Trigger is clicking, sear is moving on lever, then click off. So that is probably not the problem in this piston/trigger disconnection.

Any other possibility?

[Gwhite]

The top end of the "L" shaped sear (#15) that interfaces with the trigger pivots to the rear when the trigger releases it. That should allow the valve sear (#14) to drop down, releasing the firing valve when #17 pushes to the rear. If the trigger is releasing the lower sear, then the problem has to be with the upper one. Ordinarily, the air pressure and the valve spring should push the valve open. Either something is interfering with that, or the sear isn't dropping.

You should be able to see what is going on if you remove the breech block lever.

[seamaster]

so if #15 is dropping and #17 not moving back, your diagnosis is too much gunk sticking/blocking piston passage?

The piston pressure is quite high, I can't imaging that 2000 PSI pressure can't push through that "gunk" and push #17 backward.

[seamaster]

@gwhite

need your expertise on putting valve 17, valve sear, trigger sear, and breech block lever back together.

Just took everything apart, clean all above parts. Now I just remembered you posted a few years back on the sequence of putting those parts back.

What has to engage what? breech block lever position when valve 17,valve sear, trigger sear are put back together?

Can you repost the proper sequence putting valve 17, valve sear, trigger sear, breech block lever back?

Thanks a million.

[seamaster]

@gwhite

need your expertise on putting valve 17, valve sear, trigger sear, and breech block lever back together.

Just took everything apart, clean all above parts. Now I just remembered you posted a few years back on the sequence of putting those parts back.

What has to engage what? breech block lever position when valve 17,valve sear, trigger sear are put back together?

Can you repost the proper sequence putting valve 17, valve sear, trigger sear, breech block lever back?

Thanks a million.

[seamaster]

@gwhite

found your old put back instruction on valve stem 17, valve sear, trigger sear, breech lever.

When I inserted #17 in, there is no spring resistance at all.

I am now wondering if #13 valve spring is not functional/ or broke.

Am I suppose to feel some resistance when inserting #17 sear valve back in?

[Gwhite]

Yes. Even with no air pressure, there should be some moderate force from the spring pushing the valve (#9) against part #17.

[seamaster]

@gwhite

Houston, got a major problem.

How do I get to the spring?

Main valve #9 with #13 spring is stuck inside bush #32

How to get the spring out?

[Gwhite]

OK, that's a new one... I've taken several IZH's apart, and those two pieces should just pop right out.

You can try poking at it from the rear to see if you can get it unstuck. A thin wooden dowel or plastic rod won't damage anything. A drop of air tool oil down the gas port on top might help

[northpaw]

This thread under the heading "Olympic pistol"? There aint much "Olympic" about the izh 46 m.
An ungainly, clumsy, non-appealing piece of iron.
Why buy yourself problems when there are western-european high quality APs available?
I just don´t get it. I´ve handled and fired an izh 46 m, wouldn´t have one for free.

[seamaster]

It is a beastly gun that Russ used very well in his academy.

I also seen it used by quite a few in the old Olympic modern pentathlon shooting .

Not a girly man gun.

[seamaster]

@gwhite

Trying to understand what holds compressed air before sear break with release of #17.

#13 in #31 seal is what holds all that compressed air in before sear release, correct?

[Gwhite]

If I understand you, yes. #9 is the valve pin that fits into the #31 firing seal. A combination of the air pressure on the pin and the force from the valve spring (#13) open the valve up when the valve sear (#14) drops down, releasing #17. I may not have the names exactly right, but I've seen the pieces called different things in various documents.

For some reason, it sounds like your valve pin is stuck.

[seamaster]

@gwhite

got the broken spring out from the front side at your recommendation . When it came out, broken spring came out and a broken O-ring like material came out.

There is a pin #69 across. Wondering what is the function of this pin across, below #9?

What is the two end fulcrum for this spring? Button end of #9 and pin #69 across?

What is preventing the pin spring end, on the outside of pin valve #9, from cutting/popping into #39 seal? The O-ring like material that came out from the broken spring is spring end cutting into #39 seal?

Now the million dollar question, how do you replace that #39 seal? How do you get it out? I remember you mentioned you made your own hook to hook it out?

[Gwhite]

I've never actually had the time to replace one of the seals. It fits in between #30 & #32, and you have to remove the cross pin below #32 to get that piece out. I think there is a notch in the bottom of #32 that the cross pin fits though. I think the spring actually presses against the face of the seal, and it sounds like when yours broke it chewed up the seal.

Here's a thread with info on the seal replacement: http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... 3&#p249103

[seamaster]

@gwhite

Retracing your post about removing #32 seal, you mentioned “a gentleman” removed it by attaching a string to a larger screw, screw it into seal hole and pulled seal out.

That brought a big smile to my face.

That “gentleman” was me . My right hand now a day does not know what the left hand have done !

Always nice to have someone cerebral like you who can guide me through it again.

[Gwhite]

Always glad to help! :)

As I've gotten older, I keep more & more detailed notes on any repair work I do. Someday I won't be able to continue fixing things and someone else will have to take over the team pistols I maintain, with the aid of my notes. As long as I have them available, I'm also happy to share them with folks on the forum.

In the meantime, my ability to remember how I fixed something in the past gets fuzzier. It's nice to be able to reconstruct what I did without any mis-steps or reinventing things. Just yesterday I replaced two Benelli .22 buffers, and that gave me a chance to improve on my earlier process.

I've also learned an enormous amount from other contributors to the forum. It's nice to be able to give back in kind.

[seamaster]

@gwhite

Trigger is still not fully functional.

It is a double pull trigger now. First pull, nothing, second pull will induce firing.

Looking at handle trigger circle window, something odd is happening.

When not pressurized, trigger lever #18 clicks off #15 trigger sear easily.

When pressurized, first pull, trigger lever #18 slides OFF #15 sear into mid air, but no click. Release trigger, #18 comes back to original position with #15 L trigger sear. 2nd pull, trigger lever slides over sear, clicks , firing ensue.

What is going on? Valve sear #14 / trigger sear #15 problem , or weak spring issue?