SAFETY? Can a 3,000 psi cylinder be safely repaired? Safely repaired "home brew" style, i.e. using, for example, "old drill bits" secured in a vice instead of using a spanner?
Perhaps this is why the Morini date code was standardized from 20-years to 10-year. And that's for functioning cylinders.
Or compromise safety over a $168 replacement part? (Or why fool with a leaky malfunctioned cylinder to begin with?)
Gonna be a DARWIN AWARD on this thread . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . .
Morini 162 cylinder repair
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atomicgale
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Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
Over a decade on here, and I’ve read a lot of hype, but I haven’t heard of one blowing up due to age/wear yet. Sure, some folks might think spending $200-300/each on new cylinders every 5-10 years is no big deal, but what about folks with older guns that are no longer supported by the manufacturers? What about folks with guns that don’t have removable tanks, like some Hammerlis?atomicgale wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:02 pm SAFETY? Can a 3,000 psi cylinder be safely repaired? Safely repaired "home brew" style, i.e. using, for example, "old drill bits" secured in a vice instead of using a spanner?
Perhaps this is why the Morini date code was standardized from 20-years to 10-year. And that's for functioning cylinders.
Or compromise safety over a $168 replacement part? (Or why fool with a leaky malfunctioned cylinder to begin with?)
Gonna be a DARWIN AWARD on this thread . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . .
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
It's what one feels comfortable doing for themselves with some common sense couldn't hurt.
We have owners on the Bullpup forums that don't feel comfortable working on their own PCPs too, and send them out for servicing ... nothing wrong with that.
Then there guys like me that purchase guns that I know I can service myself because of where I'm located.
It's not feasible for me to send in all my PCPs overseas every time a seal goes or having the guns completely re-sealed every year or two.
So I've learned for years to work on them myself and help out my friends as well with modifying power tuning their guns also.
If the gauge is leaking I'd scrap those and maybe cannibalize them for parts like using their cup seals to fix the other(s) that leak.
Morini has them, couldn't find them anywhere else back then in 2013.
Don't think that they would have sent me the cup seals to be replaced by myself knowing it would be unsafe to do ?
Also, I think Pilkguns has spare cylinder in stock ?
http://www.pilkguns.com/store/Morini-Sp ... -p84810688
My workbench guys .....
We have owners on the Bullpup forums that don't feel comfortable working on their own PCPs too, and send them out for servicing ... nothing wrong with that.
Then there guys like me that purchase guns that I know I can service myself because of where I'm located.
It's not feasible for me to send in all my PCPs overseas every time a seal goes or having the guns completely re-sealed every year or two.
So I've learned for years to work on them myself and help out my friends as well with modifying power tuning their guns also.
If the gauge is leaking I'd scrap those and maybe cannibalize them for parts like using their cup seals to fix the other(s) that leak.
Morini has them, couldn't find them anywhere else back then in 2013.
Don't think that they would have sent me the cup seals to be replaced by myself knowing it would be unsafe to do ?
Also, I think Pilkguns has spare cylinder in stock ?
http://www.pilkguns.com/store/Morini-Sp ... -p84810688
My workbench guys .....
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
Why would you scrap the cylinder if the gage is leaking ? This can’t be repaired ?
3 of my 4 cylinders leak from the gage end. These three have the least amount of use strangely enough.
Dr.
3 of my 4 cylinders leak from the gage end. These three have the least amount of use strangely enough.
Dr.
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
The gauge/seal can be problematic to remove and re-seal if that where it is leaking ?
If the gauge itself is leaking it needs to be replaced completely, if you can't purchase new ones for a good price it might not be worth it.
If they were still under warranty Morini should replace them, but they not.
Morini gauges in the past were known to leak according to them.
You could also try and contact Morini they might comply in your case for they were seldenly used before they acquired a leak.
They might send you replacement gauges or complete new cylinders, IDK.
Morini is a great company in the past they've sent me a new body frame for free when mines was out of warranty but acquired a crack/leak.
Took them a week to build it and Francisco ask if I wanted the same serial number ..... after which it was a like new gun ...... in 2013.
If the gauge itself is leaking it needs to be replaced completely, if you can't purchase new ones for a good price it might not be worth it.
If they were still under warranty Morini should replace them, but they not.
Morini gauges in the past were known to leak according to them.
You could also try and contact Morini they might comply in your case for they were seldenly used before they acquired a leak.
They might send you replacement gauges or complete new cylinders, IDK.
Morini is a great company in the past they've sent me a new body frame for free when mines was out of warranty but acquired a crack/leak.
Took them a week to build it and Francisco ask if I wanted the same serial number ..... after which it was a like new gun ...... in 2013.
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
Thanks. I think it’s worth a phone call.
Right now I’m going to go sit on a rock and pretend it’s the Galápagos Islands. You know, with the other Darwinian creatures !
Dr.
Right now I’m going to go sit on a rock and pretend it’s the Galápagos Islands. You know, with the other Darwinian creatures !
Dr.
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
The 20 year dates were applied before the last pressure vessel law revision, Morini didnt decide to change, it wasn't optional. They now carry a manufacturing date, and the pressure vessel standards custodians have decreed that any pressure vessel under 1/2 liter is end of lifed at 10 years.atomicgale wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:02 pm SAFETY? Can a 3,000 psi cylinder be safely repaired? Safely repaired "home brew" style, i.e. using, for example, "old drill bits" secured in a vice instead of using a spanner?
Perhaps this is why the Morini date code was standardized from 20-years to 10-year. And that's for functioning cylinders.
Or compromise safety over a $168 replacement part? (Or why fool with a leaky malfunctioned cylinder to begin with?)
Gonna be a DARWIN AWARD on this thread . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . .
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
[/quote]
Over a decade on here, and I’ve read a lot of hype, but I haven’t heard of one blowing up due to age/wear yet. Sure, some folks might think spending $200-300/each on new cylinders every 5-10 years is no big deal, but what about folks with older guns that are no longer supported by the manufacturers? What about folks with guns that don’t have removable tanks, like some Hammerlis?
[/quote]
1 single Morini tank has failed. It was not properly cared for and exhibited chlorine contamination initiated stress corrosion cracking. Morini responded by issuing a product recall and inspected those cylinders that were returned to them, and returned them to their owners. Some didnt like how it happened, but I give them cudos. My FWB P44 tanks are shared by the P8 so immediate obsolescence doesnt hurt yet. As far as integral tank guns, the Pressure vessel laws do not apply to them as they are not removable stand alone tanks and PV laws regulate tanks, not non-tank products containing a compressed gas.
Over a decade on here, and I’ve read a lot of hype, but I haven’t heard of one blowing up due to age/wear yet. Sure, some folks might think spending $200-300/each on new cylinders every 5-10 years is no big deal, but what about folks with older guns that are no longer supported by the manufacturers? What about folks with guns that don’t have removable tanks, like some Hammerlis?
[/quote]
1 single Morini tank has failed. It was not properly cared for and exhibited chlorine contamination initiated stress corrosion cracking. Morini responded by issuing a product recall and inspected those cylinders that were returned to them, and returned them to their owners. Some didnt like how it happened, but I give them cudos. My FWB P44 tanks are shared by the P8 so immediate obsolescence doesnt hurt yet. As far as integral tank guns, the Pressure vessel laws do not apply to them as they are not removable stand alone tanks and PV laws regulate tanks, not non-tank products containing a compressed gas.
Last edited by spektr on Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
Actually quite the opposite, Chloronated solvents that get past the anodized finish due to scratches or worn finishes sets up a very simple stress corrosion profile, Pump the cylinder up and down a few times and the stress cracking accelerates to failure in fairly short order. Its chemistry and hoop tension loading.
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
Yes you are correct. I made that statement prior to understanding the whole picture. Thanks for the clarification. Good info.
Dr.
Dr.
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
Over a decade on here, and I’ve read a lot of hype, but I haven’t heard of one blowing up due to age/wear yet. Sure, some folks might think spending $200-300/each on new cylinders every 5-10 years is no big deal, but what about folks with older guns that are no longer supported by the manufacturers? What about folks with guns that don’t have removable tanks, like some Hammerlis?
[/quote]
1 single Morini tank has failed. It was not properly cared for and exhibited chlorine contamination initiated stress corrosion cracking. Morini responded by issuing a product recall and inspected those cylinders that were returned to them, and returned them to their owners. Some didnt like how it happened, but I give them cudos. My FWB P44 tanks are shared by the P8 so immediate obsolescence doesnt hurt yet. As far as integral tank guns, the Pressure vessel laws do not apply to them as they are not removable stand alone tanks and PV laws regulate tanks, not non-tank products containing a compressed gas.
[/quote]
So the one instance cited was not a result of age/wear, but of abuse.
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
I'm not sure where you are going with this, but yes,1 failure has been attributed to to product abuse. If the implication you're stringing together is one to justify an on condition acceptance of a pressure vessel, go ahead its fine with me for you to do that. What isn't fine IMHO is knowingly advocating a position that is in fact illegal. International law end of life's this product at 10 years from the manufacturing date. Our tanks live pampered lives for the most part, and the law may be very conservative, but you get 10 years. I doubt the Air Tank Police will ever bust you but I have an issue with situational ethics and not following laws that are inconvenient............
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
What "international law" are you referring to?
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
The Specifics on tbe law are here PED 97/23/EC Annex 1 Article 1 (1) Article 1 (2.3) Article 1 (2.5) Annex 3,. 1.1 What you will find after digesting this is your answer.....
The US DOT enforces the PED by reference in its regs......
To save you the time, the law says that pressure vessels that lack designed internal inspection access AND all cylinders having a volume less than 1/2 liter, shall be marked with a manufacturing date and end of lifed 10 years after that time. The specific markings shall be the quarter and year of mfg....
Compliance with this law which was quite lax at the time, was the reason behind the USA Shooting 3/13/13 memo. It started enforcement of the 10 year end of life as the law required, putting in place the requirements with almost no explaination as to why it happened....
Hope this helps.....
The US DOT enforces the PED by reference in its regs......
To save you the time, the law says that pressure vessels that lack designed internal inspection access AND all cylinders having a volume less than 1/2 liter, shall be marked with a manufacturing date and end of lifed 10 years after that time. The specific markings shall be the quarter and year of mfg....
Compliance with this law which was quite lax at the time, was the reason behind the USA Shooting 3/13/13 memo. It started enforcement of the 10 year end of life as the law required, putting in place the requirements with almost no explaination as to why it happened....
Hope this helps.....
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atomicgale
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
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Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
I've seen a cylinder launch itself halfway down range, but that was when the threads failed as it was being screwed on.
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
USA Shooting and ISSF aren't law enforcement agencies, nor should they be in the business of creating standards for pressure vessels. If they want to refer to whatever law that exists, by say, "all cylinders will comply with all applicable laws in the country hosting the match," that would seem fine. But arbitrarily creating a rule seems to imply that USA Shooting is speaking competently and setting a safety standard for which it really has no basis to determine on its own (I doubt USAS did any testing to determine a time limit). I think things might get interesting if someone is injured by a cylinder less than 10 years old at a USAS match and sues USAS.spektr wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:25 pm The Specifics on tbe law are here PED 97/23/EC Annex 1 Article 1 (1) Article 1 (2.3) Article 1 (2.5) Annex 3,. 1.1 What you will find after digesting this is your answer.....
The US DOT enforces the PED by reference in its regs......
To save you the time, the law says that pressure vessels that lack designed internal inspection access AND all cylinders having a volume less than 1/2 liter, shall be marked with a manufacturing date and end of lifed 10 years after that time. The specific markings shall be the quarter and year of mfg....
Compliance with this law which was quite lax at the time, was the reason behind the USA Shooting 3/13/13 memo. It started enforcement of the 10 year end of life as the law required, putting in place the requirements with almost no explaination as to why it happened....
Hope this helps.....
Re: Morini 162 cylinder repair
Ok, last try to explain this.
All of your arguments lack merit.
USAS identified a condition in tbeir rule book where US law was not being followed. In the US, it is illegal to knowingly repressurize a pressure vessel requiring inspection or retirement. USAS found tbey were not in compliance at their contests as out of date tanks were being used. USAS publisbed a memo and a rule change highlighting this problem as it was a compulsary and USAS needed to comply with it. So far so good. At many venues, the organizers provide filling services, USAS rigbtfully changed the rules for inspection so out of date tanks werent filled. All good so far.
Your assertion that USAS should have merely said "comply with the existing law when refilling tanks" while knowing that a problem with the publics awareness of the law existed is flawed. The fact is, that until I quoted chapter and verse on the specific law having the compliance issues, even you weren't up to speed as your pointedly sarcastic WHAT INTERNATIONAL LAW shows.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that the USAS wants us to comply with the law and reminds us of what it is..... The law is there to be followed, It is compulsary, not a suggestion. You may disagree with why it exists and say it lacks logic, BUT it is tbe law and must be followed. The International PV regulatory body says we get there 10 years on an air tank. They all do that stuff for a living, and I am NOT in a position, having read tbe entire law and all the annexes attached to it, to say it is poorly written or misclassifys our PVs. Lastly, in tbe Aerospace Industry, my professional home for my entire career, we have a saying that covers your actions completely..... Perform to tbe requirements or cause tbe requirements to be officially changed....... Those are great parting words so I'll leave it tbere.....
All of your arguments lack merit.
USAS identified a condition in tbeir rule book where US law was not being followed. In the US, it is illegal to knowingly repressurize a pressure vessel requiring inspection or retirement. USAS found tbey were not in compliance at their contests as out of date tanks were being used. USAS publisbed a memo and a rule change highlighting this problem as it was a compulsary and USAS needed to comply with it. So far so good. At many venues, the organizers provide filling services, USAS rigbtfully changed the rules for inspection so out of date tanks werent filled. All good so far.
Your assertion that USAS should have merely said "comply with the existing law when refilling tanks" while knowing that a problem with the publics awareness of the law existed is flawed. The fact is, that until I quoted chapter and verse on the specific law having the compliance issues, even you weren't up to speed as your pointedly sarcastic WHAT INTERNATIONAL LAW shows.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that the USAS wants us to comply with the law and reminds us of what it is..... The law is there to be followed, It is compulsary, not a suggestion. You may disagree with why it exists and say it lacks logic, BUT it is tbe law and must be followed. The International PV regulatory body says we get there 10 years on an air tank. They all do that stuff for a living, and I am NOT in a position, having read tbe entire law and all the annexes attached to it, to say it is poorly written or misclassifys our PVs. Lastly, in tbe Aerospace Industry, my professional home for my entire career, we have a saying that covers your actions completely..... Perform to tbe requirements or cause tbe requirements to be officially changed....... Those are great parting words so I'll leave it tbere.....