The "Accurizing" business

[longfellow]

I just looked at the Accuracy-X site for the first time; I don't notice things nearly as quickly as most others I suppose.
It seems as though we are headed in to a very exciting period regarding this age-old and very nostalgic process of accurizing the 1911 (or building one from scratch for BE), with Clark/Salyer and others fitting barrels and bushings and guaranteeing 21/2 inch fifty yard groups for $400-$600 and Accuracy X building guns that group less than that at twice that distance, for about three thousand. Seems like there's plenty of room for pistolsmiths to try to close that price gap while creeping up on that 2.5 moa group. I think I will hold off writing that three thousand dollar check for a bit longer to give folks a chance to figure out how they do it. The free market is awesome.

[aprilian]

I have a signature over on another forum that gives me pause when I consider dropping money on hardware.

Cecil (CR10X) wrote:
...there are 5 times as many topics in Equipment than in Fundamentals and 7.5 times as many topics in Equipment and Ammunition than in Fundamentals.
And yet, with all the discussion on Equipment and Ammunition, all the 1.5 inch guns being produced, all the sub whatever inch loads being developed, all the new dot sights, etc., etc., etc.; there hasn't been a change in the record score for a 2700 aggregate match in years! Something to ponder here?

[6string]

Human nature is what it is.
People mostly will gravitate to "quick fix" solutions. However, there is a logical premise that if you're going to invest the time and energy to learn the sport, you might as well do it with the best equipment. Of course, some will argue that the "equipment game" keeps new blood out.
Personally, I've got a bit of a problem with the entire idea of the 2700 match. It's pointlessly locked into the 1911, a gun that hasn't been the service pistol in over 30 years.
Why?
The 1911 was adopted as the US service pistol over 100 years ago. It's a cool design, but in just about every way is one of the worst target pistols. Even the grip angle is sucks! Look at the folks that willingly mess up their nice Pardini and Hämmerli 22s with 1911 grip adapters. It's like wearing the wrong sized clothes so you don't notice your shoes hurt your feet.
As long as we're speculating on the future, I think it's time to move on.
How about a 2700 match built around "22 stage", "any CF stage" and "service pistol/revolver stage"?
And, to minimize the redundancy of shooters replicating the last two stages, make the service pistol stage "as issued" and "iron sights only".
Maybe keep a separate 1911 nostalgia match...
The CMP has already moved in a new direction with their greatly expanded service pistol list and 22 EIC matches.

Sorry for drifting topic a bit. But, one point the OP has underscored is the strange existence of the 1911 cottage industry.

Jim

[Rover]

Do a Search in Olympic Pistol "Buying points."

[SlartyBartFast]

Of course, some will argue that the "equipment game" keeps new blood out.
Personally, I've got a bit of a problem with the entire idea of the 2700 match. It's pointlessly locked into the 1911, a gun that hasn't been the service pistol in over 30 years.

Here in Canada, Bullseye is .22 and any CF. No 45 required.

As bad as the equipment game is the reloading game.

Elite competitors and competition are great, when a sport is healthy. But IMO bullseye competition would improve if at the very least minimum power factors were adopted for each calibre. If not all out hardball, use the ammo provided at the competition.

I like the idea of a revolver and service pistol stage instead of a 45. Last (and only) competition I went to had a service pistol event. This year going to try using my FAS for .22, Chiappa Rhino 38 special for CF, and PPQ Q5 for service pistol. Probably do sport pistol with the Chiappa too. Won third place last year with a borrowed pistol in a discipline I had never practised before.

[BEA]

This is one of those discussions that is so fraught with misunderstanding and lack of knowledge that it is hard to know what to say. So I will stop here.

[john bickar]

This is one of those discussions that is so fraught with misunderstanding and lack of knowledge that it is hard to know what to say. So I will stop here.

Pretty much my reaction, Ben. SMDH.

Bullseye is fun and doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. We shoot it the first and third Wednesday evening of every month at Sunnyvale Rod & Gun Club in Cupertino, CA. Come join us; shoot what ya brung.

[hengehold]

I am in my first year of BE shooting and I can appreciate where the OP is coming from. As I shop around for options for the .45 stage, It is a little disappointing that the 1911 is the only real option for anyone to consider if you don’t do your own smith work. There are other pistols available, such as the Sig220 target but nobody works on these other models.

Similarly, I have shot high power rifles competitively for almost 20 years. For about $3,000 I can build a world class 1000yd rifle without sights. However, it is quite possible to find rifles that cost MUCH more than $3000!! There is nothing left to do with a bolt action after $3000 has been invested. What does this extra money pay for? I think the reality is that many people that don’t fully understand the scope of work that goes into a rifle build and can be convinced that more money paid will result in a more accurate rifle and that there is a linear relationship between the two.

As far as a $3,000 pistol goes, I think the same can be said. Many people probably do not know enough about the scope of work required to make a particular model of pistol shoot well. If they did, they would do the work themselves.

I do some of my own rifle work but military life has forced me to move a lot and large machines are needed for barrel work. So, I am limited on what I can do. But pistols are another story. All it takes is time and a much more manageable tooling investment so just go build your own!!!

-Trevor

[jglenn]

If you do any serious pistol work you're going to use those large heavy.tools... i currently have 2 mills and 2 lathes for pistol and rifle work. Also a tig welder

And lots of hand tools specific to the 1911.

If you are going to have a pistol that shoots a maximum of 1.5" at 50 yds you have a lot of work to do.

I do my own pistols and hunting rifles as a hobby

[dronning]

...with Clark/Salyer and others fitting barrels and bushings and guaranteeing 21/2 inch fifty yard groups for $400-$600 and Accuracy X building guns that group less than that at twice that distance, for about three thousand. Seems like there's plenty of room for pistolsmiths to try to close that price gap while creeping up on that 2.5 moa group. I think I will hold off writing that three thousand dollar check for a bit longer to give folks a chance to figure out how they do it. The free market is awesome.

You need to add the price of the original pistol (700-1,200) plus a trigger job ($100-200) to your $400-600 number. So really you are at $1,200-2,000 verses $3K.

How they do it and why so expensive has to do with the machine$, fixture$ and experience they have to correctly build the gun to very tight tolerances. The tight/correct tolerance on all parts, not just a barrel and bushing, get you longevity. A 1.5" gun built this way from the ground up will hold 1.5" many, many thousands of rounds.

You don't need a 1.5" gun to make Master, a 2.5" gun will get you there, but having a gun that gives you more confidence may give you more points, not because the gun shoots better but because you do, it's 98% mental.
- Dave