Bleiker vs KK500

[TomSwede]

Curious, have heard that Bleiker rifles often needs re-barreling at low round counts. Is there experience of this? With the Walther KK500 out there, is the reason for a Bleiker at 2X the cost gone?
At my level I'm fine with my KK300, just wondering.

[svensta]

If you want to pay 2+ grand extra for no extra gain in results then feel free.

I have never owned a Bleiker and never will. Can only tell stories from people I have chatted to in
my shooting circles who are current owners. Are they accurate? You bet!

One person I know has sent her rifle back to the factory twice because of issues with bolt head space and tolerance issues with tiny amounts of dirt.
Another Dude I know shot his barrel out at about 50000 rounds which is about 200000 rounds short of a 60's anschutz barrel.

Look, it's a fantastic bit of showboating type engineering but the KK500 is just as accurate and keeps working fine even when a little bit dirty.
Just look at how many ISSF competitors in the last 2 years have started using them. Having only had my KK500 for 2 years I can't really
attest to it's long term durability but it's reliability is just fine and I only clean it every 500 rounds or there abouts.

I have seen some posts here about KK500 trigger issues. My trigger is set pretty light and it works fine.

[jhmartin]

From my little knowledge/experience the Bleiker barrel issues I've seen is when folks start playing with the headspace.
If you get one and get the right ammo for it --- and leave it alone & just shoot the thing, all seems happy.

My daughter loves her KK-500. She previously shot a 1913 very well, but we were always having to really work her position as she grew to fit that (larger) stock.
The adaptability of this stock is very nice, especially for smaller and women shooters.

She has had some issues with the trigger ... as have others. Those of us who have daughters shooting this rifle, and have some engineering backgrounds, feel that there is a (very small) tolerance stackup involved. Temperature, rough airline handling, and who knows what else, seem to cause the issue to appear --- but not on all rifles.....
The time it appeared on my daughter's rifle was at Nationals (in records of course). The Walther Rep/Tech was there and they replaced the trigger with the one out of the display rifle and no issues after that. The display rifle with her trigger worked fine too. She carries a new-spare trigger and a spare firing pin (one of our KK-500 shooters had one fracture) with her now ... of course you can only hope issues appear at practice/training times!

I've asked her several times if she would like to go back to her 1913, and the answer is always an emphatic NO. She likes the adjustability ... and the gun has not had any issues in over a year & a half now. (and it shoots nice!)

I know of a bunch of shooters firing the KK-500 and only know of one that dumped it and went to another rifle ... and that was because she could not find a good batch of ammo. From my testing of several of these guns, they do not like Eley. You can find Lapua ammo that shoots very good groups, but they seem to prefer RWS generally. My daughter shoots RWS and has 1 case of a sweet grouping Center-X as backup.

[mhampel]

I thought the trigger issues with the KK500 were attributed to trying to set the trigger too light. But that is only an internet forum rumour. I changed my trigger to single stage by moving first stage travel to zero. I then added weight to the second stage. It is on the max stop, and breaks perfectly. I wouldn't mind if it was slightly heavier. No problems at just short of 8000 rounds.

I also have a friend whose firing pin cracked. Walther does not recommend dry firing without a fired case, or snap cap.

Walther has also done some things right. Not many people mention the little ball bearing at the bottom of the loading port. No need to push the round into the chamber to prevent damage to the bullet. Drop the round into port and close the bolt. There is a YouTube video of someone dropping rounds
into the left side of the port, closing the bolt and firing very rapidly. The rifle is very easy to load from the shoulder. I have a friend with a Grünig + Elmiger who thinks it is hard to load. I did not ask him why.

I have the opposite experience with ammo. My rifle shoots many different varieties very well. Today I practised with SK Standard Plus. On the A23/6, after one sighter I shot 49 tens and x's, mostly x's (with a scope). It is an easy target, but practising wit relative affordable ammo is a nice benefit. Eley works fine. Center-x, RWS R-50 and Special Match also are great.

[joel]

Rather than Bleiker, if, I could afford a high-end smallbore rifle, I would go Grunig & Elmiger.

My $0.02,

Joel

[Hemmers]

I can't speak to low-round counts on Bleiker (Lilja) barrels, but certainly in the last couple of years they seem to have struggled with quality control. Demand spiked and quality seems to have slipped in favour of getting product out the door.

I know someone shooting a Bleiker who ordered a second action as a backup. The first problem was that in the 8 months between buying their rifle (Bleiker stock and action #1) and receiving their new action #2, they'd changed the trigger slightly so it wouldn't actually fit in their stock. Bleiker fitted an older-style trigger unit (identical to action #1), and off they went to Eley, where it wouldn't group. And I don't just mean "Not as good as you'd expect for a £3900 barrel", but the best groups were >19mm. It shouldn't have made it out the factory.

In isolation you might just think this was a "Friday Afternoon Special", but I gather there have been quite a few new Bleikers performing poorly at Eley's UK test range in the past two years.

So the action went back and was re-barrelled and eventually they got an action which both fitted their stock and shot straight!

Personally, I went with the Grunig Racer 3 and couldn't be happier with it. The KK500 also seems to be a very strong choice these days though I gather quite a few people who opted for the electronic trigger ended up swapping it for the mechanical. I don't know if that was teething issues that have been ironed out or if the electronic trigger simply isn't very good. The action and barrels seem to be very solid though.

[GaryD]

Hemmers Said and I quote

In isolation you might just think this was a "Friday Afternoon Special", but I gather there have been quite a few new Bleikers performing poorly at Eley's UK test range in the past two years


My Bleiker has been to Eley UK three times in the last three years, the last test was a month ago in October 2018.

The test groups have been poor from day one, in comparison to friends who tested other makes of rifle using the same ammo as me.

So guess what, I have made arangements to take it back to Swizerland in January.

[GaryD]

Forgot to say the groups when I tested Center X at Bisley were also not good, my friend alongside me testing a G & E bought 5000 rounds.

I didn't buy any.