When to get a better pistol?

[gimgim]

Hello!

I used to shoot 10m and FP in my teens, now (50+ y/o) I am picking up the old sport as a hobby.
Back then I couldn't afford my own pistols (they were a FAS and a Haemmerli), now I can.

As I didn't know how much time I could allocate, I have bought a IZH 46M and a Toz 35M, very happy with both.
I saw scores going up when I got grips from Rink and now that I am experimenting with shooting glasses.
I practice with the IZH two/three times a week (5m scaled down targets) and with the Toz weekly and I feel like I am making quick progress with the IZH.

At what level do you think I should start moving to a better pistol? As I said, this is a hobby, it woudl be fun to compete, but I don't have olympic ambitions :-)

One more question (for those living in CA / SF Bay Area): Is there any place around here where competitions are organized? It seems to me olympic pistol practice in the US is extremely rare. When I bring the Toz to the range (Metcalf) people look at the pistol like at an alien weapon :-)

Thanks!

P.S. I just realized have joined the forum 10 years ago, when I got the IZH, then family and kid happened and now I am back again.

[Gwhite]

The Toz will take you as far as you want to go, so let's focus on the IZH.

The IZH is plenty accurate, and it has a great trigger & good sights. That said, it's is heavy, balanced fairly far forward, and requires a modicum of effort to pump up to a 60 shot match. All of those negatives will become more and more of an issue depending on how gracefully you age.

If you find that your scores start falling off late in a match, it is likely from fatigue. You have two options: get in better shape, or buy a pistol that doesn't require so much work to hold up & shoot. Your choice...

There's tons of good info in the archives on various pistol choices. Ideally, I would try to find a match/range/club where there are other air pistol shooters to so can at least heft a few options. You can probably get a good deal on a used PCP (or even CO2) on the buy, sell, trade forum.

Any good modern air pistol is capable of far outshooting you in terms of fundamental accuracy. It's the ergonomics of a pistol that determine how easily YOU can access that accuracy. Everyone is different, so there is no "best" air pistol that you can just go & buy that will be guaranteed to suit you. The higher end ones tend to have more adjustments to adapt to different shooters, so that is something to watch for. As an example, Steyr makes lovely, accurate air pistols, with lots of adjustability. However, even with all those adjustments, if you have small hands and/or short fingers, you may find it impossible to set it up so you can reach the trigger properly.

[v76]

When you have the funds. Of course, you might not get better scores than with the IZH but you might enjoy shooting more (for a while).

[gimgim]

Thanks Gwhite and v76.

Funds are (luckily) not an issue, but I would feel silly at spending x5 for a pistol without a clear technical advantage. I would rather put the money into an air rifle and play with something else.

I will try tracking scores vs. time to see if I can see a fatigue pattern. The IZH felt heavy in the front with the stock grip, but the situation has greatly improved with the Rink-Formgriffe grip.

Gwhite, I see you are in MA? I assume you shoot at the submarine hull? :-)

[Gwhite]

gimgim,

As a matter of fact, yes I do.

For the uninitiated, the backstop of the MIT shooting facility in Cambridge was built using World War II surplus submarine hull steel. The plates are angled with a sand bed to catch the bullets. The pistol side gets a lot of heavy use from Physical Education classes, the collegiate pistol team, and the faculty & staff shooting club. The pistol range now has individual commercial bullet traps with "spin chambers" welded in front of the angled plates, but the rifle side still uses the original steel plate setup.

The commercial traps are getting pretty tired after over 30 years of use, and the Rangemaster is working on a plan to re-do the entire backstop setup.

[deadeyedick]

At what level do you think I should start moving to a better pistol? As I said, this is a hobby, it woudl be fun to compete, but I don't have olympic ambitions :-)

NOW ! ......it’s a short life ....if you have the money then buy the best now.....they are not for sale in retirement villages and not allowed in heaven.

[David Levene]

At what level do you think I should start moving to a better pistol? As I said, this is a hobby, it woudl be fun to compete, but I don't have olympic ambitions

When you start to think that the gun might be holding you back, whether it is or not, that's the time to upgrade.

[deadeyedick]

A better ( more expensive ) pistol will definitely NOT make you a worse shooter...don’t analyse too much as to whether the percentages are in favour of buying the best...just do it.

You will NEVER go back to an Izzy 46 after owning an Evo 10e or a Morini CM200EI ....that’s a promise and you will not need to mortgage the house to do it either.

Pistol shooting is the cheapest sport I have tried and after owning over 100 pistols since 1975 I am financially in credit as selling quality pistols generally means quick sale and minimal loss ( if any ) as opposed to selling clunkers.

Did buying a new pistol ever make my scores significantly higher......honestly ....NO ! ...But neither did my scores worsen.

However owning the newest lastest incarnation with electric/pneumatic/digital whatever sure made me feel great and want to shoot it far more frequently.

Take a chance.....buy the latest and newest that takes your fancy and if in a months time you have buyers remorse then sell the damn thing and your loss will be minimal and well worth the exercise.

Bottom line is that you won’t break the bank if you buy a newy....he’ll you may even be pleased ! .....but you’ll never know if you don’t give it a go.

[gimgim]

Gwhite, MIT/LL range is a cool place. I was there 20 years ago, for a few days. I was at Brandeis but enrolled in a pistol course there just to shoot a little. I wonder if you or somebody you know was my instructor.

deadeyedick, I am picking up a Ruger precision rimfire tomorrow to test if my son may be interested in the sport. It would be fun to go together to the range. He is still too young for a pistol, I would have an good excuse otherwise, but he can bench shoot a small caliber rifle. I'll think about a PCP pistol after that, I promise :-) no electronics though, I prefer mechanical stuff (even though electronics and software pay the bills). I wish it was easier to try before buying...

[deadeyedick]

I wish it was easier to try before buying...

Don’t we all gimgim.......good luck with the Ruger and introducing your son to shooting.

[wasatch]

I'll think about a PCP pistol after that, I promise :-) no electronics though, I prefer mechanical stuff (even though electronics and software pay the bills). I wish it was easier to try before buying...

If mechanical is your preference, take a look at the FWB P8X: mechanical, very adjustable in general and grip adjusts in a very convenient manner, very nice feeling trigger and effective recoil absorbing mechanism. Just over 200 shots per fill at 540fps with less than 10fps spread. I settled on it after trying out a number of used pistols over a couple years having also started with an IZH-46M. No problems so far after 1.5 years.

[spektr]

I have a FWB P44, the predecessor to the P8X. The trigger is truly unreal. I would also suggest that if you purchase a pistol, no matter who makes it, I suggest you seek out the little bits like different width front sights and ballast weights. As you get more familliar with your gun, fine tuning it might be easier if you have them.....

[Gregbenner]

GimGim, is your interest primarily air pistol, or do you have any interest in rimfire?

[Gwhite]

I'll think about a PCP pistol after that, I promise :-) no electronics though, I prefer mechanical stuff (even though electronics and software pay the bills). I wish it was easier to try before buying...

I understand your concerns, but the Morini electronic trigger has been around for about 20 years, and has stood the test of time. It's the only one I would
trust, and I used to design satellite electronics for a living. Everyone will tell you that dry firing is an incredibly valuable practice, and an electronic trigger makes it that much easier. Yes, it's no big deal to keep cocking a mechanical pistol, but it's slightly distracting. I've found that not having to cock it makes it easier to REALLY concentrate on just my trigger control.

Some folks who have to have the latest of everything will be abandoning their CM162EI's in favor of the CM200EI, so you may be able to get a good deal on a 162.

[Gregbenner]

Re: competition in NoCal. Not sure all of their events, I am in Oceanside.

http://www.califpistolmatches.com/progr ... %20Day.pdf

[Forrest C.]

To go off of Gregbenner's post, http://www.califpistolmatches.com shows a lot of the matches in the Bay Area. Right now the only air pistol matches in the Bay are at the Palo Alto Rod & Gun Club, but you'll be happy to find electronic target carriers on every point, and shooters eager to share their knowledge with you. The next match is on September 16th, I've attached the match program. If we shoot the same relay I'll let you try out my LP1P. Not the newest technology, but it took me pretty far after the Izzy.

[JamesHH]

I guess the answer is when your scores plateau and you think a better pistol would bump them up, then borrow one and see if its true.

Otherwise why do you need an excuse to buy another pistol? Just buy it.

[Gwhite]

If your scores have plateaued, the odds are quite high that it isn't the pistol holding you back. You need to take the time to figure out WHY your scores have plateaued. Shopping for a new pistol every time you get in a rut is a waste of time & money. With a modern pistol with adequate adjustability, most of what you might need to fiddle with can be tweaked without buying a whole new pistol.

Lots of people will shoot better with a new pistol just because it is a new pistol, but only for a bit. While they get used to it, they are concentrating on the fundamentals. Then, once it feels familiar, they go back to the same bad habits they had before and their scores go back down. If you make a change, you need to give it weeks of time (minimum) to really see if it helps.

A lighter pistol than the IZH has the advantage that you can always add weight to adjust the balance and the moment of inertia (see : http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... 48#p268248)

The OP has already discovered that a good grip can help, but even a good Rink grip can probably stand a little file & putty work.

All that said, sometimes there are things about a particular pistol that may just suit you better. I have a Benelli MP90S .22 pistol. For some reason, the Benelli is more "forgiving" than any other .22 pistol I have shot, and I'm not the only person to have reported this. I also have a Pardini SP New, and I just can't shoot it as well. I've tried to duplicate the grip, trigger pull, weight & balance of the Benelli on the Pardini, but somehow I can't get close enough to duplicate the overall performance when shooting.

If you get involved with Clubs that run air pistol matches, you can get exposed to a lot of different options, and most shooters are happy to let you at least hold and possibly dry fire their pistols a bit.

[d-cuttler]

If you are looking for matches, I think that they have snallbore, and air gun matches at Coyote Point near San Mateo. Also informal air gun leagues in the winter at United Sportsmen in Concord.
I live in Oakland, and may try the matches in Concord. At 80 y/o I cannot expect too much.

[spektr]

And by means shoot the cmp quarterly