I suffer a bad case of nerves whenever I shoot match cards in prone. My pulse really pounds and it can take most of a card for me to calm down, by which time of course several shots have usually gone awry. The next card may be a bit better in this respect, but not necessarily. It is worse when I shoot an individual match card than when I am shooting as part of a team, presumably because I think my team mates will make up for my poor performance so I am more relaxed. I rowed at school and vividly remember suffering from butterflies before the start of a race, but they quickly disappeared after the first few strokes out of a minimum of, say, 160 strokes even over a short course. In prone you may have only 10 shots in which to settle down - 20 of course at 50 metres.
Does anyone have a helpful suggestion to make or technique to recommend? I am healthy and reasonably fit for my age and retired status, though I know it would be better if I were an athlete in training and possessed of a low rate of pulse. Should I do some fitness training?
Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Hi Roger,
This will take time to overcome, as you're dealing with years of behaviour. You might start with very simple breathing exercises to calm yourself. That will partially resolve the pulse issue, as your body isn't releasing adrenaline. Perhaps read some books on mindfulness for tips on relaxation. Your local library should have some, as it's a popular theme.
Also have confidence in your ability and kit. If you can shoot a reasonable score on practise, you can do it in a match. The technique is exactly the same. The only difference is the voice in your head saying "sticker". A calmer frame of mind, and you'll concentrate better.
From what you've mentioned, your kit is appropriate, if not more than adequate for club shooting. You've batch tested, so you don't have to worry about ammo.
One little tip is to not count your score, especially how many points you are from your average. Instead just look to see if the shot is where your call suggested - Position not score, and whether there is a pattern. Don't analyse bad shots, rather focus on following your shot process properly for the next.
This will take time to overcome, as you're dealing with years of behaviour. You might start with very simple breathing exercises to calm yourself. That will partially resolve the pulse issue, as your body isn't releasing adrenaline. Perhaps read some books on mindfulness for tips on relaxation. Your local library should have some, as it's a popular theme.
Also have confidence in your ability and kit. If you can shoot a reasonable score on practise, you can do it in a match. The technique is exactly the same. The only difference is the voice in your head saying "sticker". A calmer frame of mind, and you'll concentrate better.
From what you've mentioned, your kit is appropriate, if not more than adequate for club shooting. You've batch tested, so you don't have to worry about ammo.
One little tip is to not count your score, especially how many points you are from your average. Instead just look to see if the shot is where your call suggested - Position not score, and whether there is a pattern. Don't analyse bad shots, rather focus on following your shot process properly for the next.
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Thank you very much, Tim, for your helpful advice and encouragement. I'm sure that self-confidence is part of the solution.
I also agree about not checking one's score as the card progresses, though I do find it very disheartening when I fail to get a '10' on the first diagram after a decent group on the sighter, which happens pretty frequently, because there is so little movement involved in getting from the sighter to the first diagram. It is difficult not to note the score at this stage.
I try to keep my breathing fairly shallow as I have been told that large intakes of breath can upset the position and agitate the pulse, but I know that plenty of oxygen will calm you down, so there is a dilemma here.
I have not heard of 'mindfulness' but clearly I must look into it. I would never underestimate the importance of mental states but equally I don't think of myself as particularly receptive to mental training.
Roger
I also agree about not checking one's score as the card progresses, though I do find it very disheartening when I fail to get a '10' on the first diagram after a decent group on the sighter, which happens pretty frequently, because there is so little movement involved in getting from the sighter to the first diagram. It is difficult not to note the score at this stage.
I try to keep my breathing fairly shallow as I have been told that large intakes of breath can upset the position and agitate the pulse, but I know that plenty of oxygen will calm you down, so there is a dilemma here.
I have not heard of 'mindfulness' but clearly I must look into it. I would never underestimate the importance of mental states but equally I don't think of myself as particularly receptive to mental training.
Roger
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
If you shoot well in practice, and on your sighting bull, but have problems when going to the scoring bull, it is often a sign of a change in mental set.
Practice and sighting is just the "usual", but you may then be changing your mental attitude to "this is for score, I m ust try harder". That is not how you got the good shots in practice or on the sighter, and the scoring bulls must be "just another good shot".
You are now into the 90% mental portion of shooting that is often talked about. Unfortunately most shooters spend nowhere near 90% of their practice or training time on the mental aspect.
One question, how do you respond to good shots and poor shots? Many shooters dwell on the poor shots, even growling at themselves, but ignore the good shots. Just the opposite of how they should react. Mental set does set chemical responses in motion. Think of your first kiss, and pay attention to how you feel. That's endorphins being released in the brain. The brain likes the feeling, so does whatever it takes to get more of them released. Growling at yourself ALSO releases the chemicals, so the brain says "OK, do that again".
Try not to respond to poor shots (other than to understand what caused it), and respond positively to good shots (Say aloud, good shot, or that's the way to do it). You can say it quietly, but don't just "think" it.
Practice and sighting is just the "usual", but you may then be changing your mental attitude to "this is for score, I m ust try harder". That is not how you got the good shots in practice or on the sighter, and the scoring bulls must be "just another good shot".
You are now into the 90% mental portion of shooting that is often talked about. Unfortunately most shooters spend nowhere near 90% of their practice or training time on the mental aspect.
One question, how do you respond to good shots and poor shots? Many shooters dwell on the poor shots, even growling at themselves, but ignore the good shots. Just the opposite of how they should react. Mental set does set chemical responses in motion. Think of your first kiss, and pay attention to how you feel. That's endorphins being released in the brain. The brain likes the feeling, so does whatever it takes to get more of them released. Growling at yourself ALSO releases the chemicals, so the brain says "OK, do that again".
Try not to respond to poor shots (other than to understand what caused it), and respond positively to good shots (Say aloud, good shot, or that's the way to do it). You can say it quietly, but don't just "think" it.
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
I deal with something extremely similar as it feels like my heart is going to jump out of my body. This happens to me from my local club matches to nationals.
What I have started doing it taking a few deep breaths to reset my mind and begin focusing on my shot process rather than the situation at hand. I take a few dry fires to ensure that my process is correct and keep that focus and confidence into the course of live fire.
I am also very analytical and each time I shoot the score and potential scores are tallied in my head almost automatically. I again focus on the process to take my mind off of the score. If it was a 10 then I say "good, do it again". Anything lower than a 10, I figure out the cause and make the correction then keep going.
What I have started doing it taking a few deep breaths to reset my mind and begin focusing on my shot process rather than the situation at hand. I take a few dry fires to ensure that my process is correct and keep that focus and confidence into the course of live fire.
I am also very analytical and each time I shoot the score and potential scores are tallied in my head almost automatically. I again focus on the process to take my mind off of the score. If it was a 10 then I say "good, do it again". Anything lower than a 10, I figure out the cause and make the correction then keep going.
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Many thanks for the last two replies. I have sometimes said to myself 'Good boy, well done' after a good shot but clearly I need to be systematic about this - I do shoot some good shots, sometimes quite a few of them if I am in the zone, but I am not consistent.
I have also tried saying to myself before a shot 'None of this matters at all' as a way of trying to be relaxed about the sport. This seems to help - possibly because talking to myself, even silently, slows down the whole process - but I haven't done it consistently.
Roger
I have also tried saying to myself before a shot 'None of this matters at all' as a way of trying to be relaxed about the sport. This seems to help - possibly because talking to myself, even silently, slows down the whole process - but I haven't done it consistently.
Roger
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Hi Roger
In this case you get nerves and increased pulse because the result of your match is important to you. So you get some symptoms of anxiety as the flight or fight mode kicks in.
But I always ask people "How important is the result of a rifle match compared to a catastrophic event that ends the world?"
By that comparison the result of your match isn't all that important at all. By convincing yourself that your match isn't important means your body won't go into flight/fight mode (with associated increase in pulse rate etc.)
My way of coping with nerves is to focus on each shot. I really focus on my technique, my hold, centering and my shot release. That way I don't have time to think about my upcoming result.
Another reason why people get nerves is because they feel outside their comfort zone. As an example, if you found yourself shooting at the Olympics when you have only ever shot at club before then I bet you would really feel outside your comfort zone.
But once you have shot at World Cups or World Champs etc a few times and competed at different ranges around the world then you probably would feel quite comfortable shooting at the Olympics.
I always tell people to compete as much as possible. Then they consider it "normal" to compete and feel in their comfort zone whenever they are shooting.
And remember your results aren't that important compared to the big issues, like eating and breathing.
Martin
In this case you get nerves and increased pulse because the result of your match is important to you. So you get some symptoms of anxiety as the flight or fight mode kicks in.
But I always ask people "How important is the result of a rifle match compared to a catastrophic event that ends the world?"
By that comparison the result of your match isn't all that important at all. By convincing yourself that your match isn't important means your body won't go into flight/fight mode (with associated increase in pulse rate etc.)
My way of coping with nerves is to focus on each shot. I really focus on my technique, my hold, centering and my shot release. That way I don't have time to think about my upcoming result.
Another reason why people get nerves is because they feel outside their comfort zone. As an example, if you found yourself shooting at the Olympics when you have only ever shot at club before then I bet you would really feel outside your comfort zone.
But once you have shot at World Cups or World Champs etc a few times and competed at different ranges around the world then you probably would feel quite comfortable shooting at the Olympics.
I always tell people to compete as much as possible. Then they consider it "normal" to compete and feel in their comfort zone whenever they are shooting.
And remember your results aren't that important compared to the big issues, like eating and breathing.
Martin
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Get a thicker softer glove
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Martin,
Thank you very much. I totally agree about the wisdom of a 'sub specie aeternitatis' philosophy, but I find it difficult to apply when I am on the firing point! I must try harder to reflect on it, however.
Spektr,
Which glove would you recommend? I use a Kurt Thune with a soft palm and hard back.
Roger
Thank you very much. I totally agree about the wisdom of a 'sub specie aeternitatis' philosophy, but I find it difficult to apply when I am on the firing point! I must try harder to reflect on it, however.
Spektr,
Which glove would you recommend? I use a Kurt Thune with a soft palm and hard back.
Roger
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
something like this worked for me https://www.drjeffspencer.com/care-less ... rm-better/
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Roger,Cumbrian wrote: Which glove would you recommend? I use a Kurt Thune with a soft palm and hard back.
Roger
Changing your glove can help, if the pulse beat comes from your hand. If you mean that your heart is racing, a new glove may not help. Lowering your heart rate is a better solution.
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Yes, our club secretary, who has been shooting for over 70 years, says that I am trying too hard. Your article accords very well with that view.GeraldC wrote:something like this worked for me https://www.drjeffspencer.com/care-less ... rm-better/
Roger
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Tim,
Thank you. Yes, I'm inclined to think that it is a racing heart that is the problem. My resting blood pressure and pulse, however, seem to be o.k., to judge from the admittedly variable results that I am recording for them at my doctor's request as part of his investigation into a quite separate medical condition.
Roger
Thank you. Yes, I'm inclined to think that it is a racing heart that is the problem. My resting blood pressure and pulse, however, seem to be o.k., to judge from the admittedly variable results that I am recording for them at my doctor's request as part of his investigation into a quite separate medical condition.
Roger
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Great article. These two quotes from the above article really sum up how I feel when I am shooting well:GeraldC wrote:something like this worked for me https://www.drjeffspencer.com/care-less ... rm-better/
"As I went to the starting line, “not caring as much”, I felt loose" and
"As the race began I felt fluid and relaxed."
Feeling loose, or fluid and relaxed, means I am in a good mental state for shooting. I find it easy to focus only on my shooting, nothing else matters. And the shooting is fun.
Cheers
Martin
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Roger
PM sent
Martin
PM sent
Martin
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Mike Carter
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 9:28 pm
- Location: Nashville TN
- Contact:
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
I read something the other day that I thought was a more appropriate use of words we use to describe an increased pulse rate, profuse sweating, heavy breathing and maybe a sense of anxiety.
The word commonly used to describe the above is "Nerves" or "Nervousness" and is usually a negative connotation.
When we are Excited, don't we feel the same exact thing?
Changing the way you speak will also change the way you think. When you are nervous about your ability to make a good shot then you are thinking about making bad shots. If you are excited about the chance to demonstrate your skill at executing perfectly placed shots based on your level of training and experience, then it might be easier to get your mind and body quickly back on the task at hand.
The task for all of competitive shooters is to execute one perfectly placed shot, over and over again. Nothing more, nothing less.
Lanny Bassham recently made this quote on Facebook. 'When the quality of your execution means more to you than the result of the execution, your results will be maximized".
The key word being YOU. Not your coach, parents, peers, and team mates.
Mike Carter
The word commonly used to describe the above is "Nerves" or "Nervousness" and is usually a negative connotation.
When we are Excited, don't we feel the same exact thing?
Changing the way you speak will also change the way you think. When you are nervous about your ability to make a good shot then you are thinking about making bad shots. If you are excited about the chance to demonstrate your skill at executing perfectly placed shots based on your level of training and experience, then it might be easier to get your mind and body quickly back on the task at hand.
The task for all of competitive shooters is to execute one perfectly placed shot, over and over again. Nothing more, nothing less.
Lanny Bassham recently made this quote on Facebook. 'When the quality of your execution means more to you than the result of the execution, your results will be maximized".
The key word being YOU. Not your coach, parents, peers, and team mates.
Mike Carter
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
The trick I found is to shoot with a Prone Mitt instead of a glo e. I have a Sauer I like....
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Awesome Quote.Mike Carter wrote:I read something the other day that I thought was a more appropriate use of words we use to describe an increased pulse rate, profuse sweating, heavy breathing and maybe a sense of anxiety.
The word commonly used to describe the above is "Nerves" or "Nervousness" and is usually a negative connotation.
When we are Excited, don't we feel the same exact thing?
Changing the way you speak will also change the way you think. When you are nervous about your ability to make a good shot then you are thinking about making bad shots. If you are excited about the chance to demonstrate your skill at executing perfectly placed shots based on your level of training and experience, then it might be easier to get your mind and body quickly back on the task at hand.
The task for all of competitive shooters is to execute one perfectly placed shot, over and over again. Nothing more, nothing less.
Lanny Bassham recently made this quote on Facebook. 'When the quality of your execution means more to you than the result of the execution, your results will be maximized".
The key word being YOU. Not your coach, parents, peers, and team mates.
Mike Carter
Odie R.
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Martin,
I have replied to your kind pm.
Roger
I have replied to your kind pm.
Roger
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kevin nevius
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:13 am
Re: Nerves, pulse etc in prone
Hi Roger:
I think everyone deals with this issue at some point, I know I have (and still do!).
I asked Nancy Thompkins about this some time ago, and she mentioned something that has helped me ever since - she simply said I should take one shot at a time, and focus / concentrate on nothing else. Focus on the one shot in the rifle - the mechanics and sight picture. Eliminate thoughts of your score, or where you may be in the aggregate. For me, when I break it down like that, it really helps.
And attend as many competitions as you can prior to big events - the sensation lessens as we expose ourselves to pressure, and unfortunately practice just doesn't have that element. As you shoot through pressure at matches, and work through it, you will develop confidence that good shots can be broken even when you feel the anxiety.
All the very best,
kev
I think everyone deals with this issue at some point, I know I have (and still do!).
I asked Nancy Thompkins about this some time ago, and she mentioned something that has helped me ever since - she simply said I should take one shot at a time, and focus / concentrate on nothing else. Focus on the one shot in the rifle - the mechanics and sight picture. Eliminate thoughts of your score, or where you may be in the aggregate. For me, when I break it down like that, it really helps.
And attend as many competitions as you can prior to big events - the sensation lessens as we expose ourselves to pressure, and unfortunately practice just doesn't have that element. As you shoot through pressure at matches, and work through it, you will develop confidence that good shots can be broken even when you feel the anxiety.
All the very best,
kev