BAD AIR? Black film on PCP air cylinder (Gun locks up)

[atomicgale]

NEED PROBLEM SOLVED: When I run a Q-Tip around the threads of my PCP air cylinders, a BLACK FILM appears. Is this typical? Or did I get Bad Air in my Scuba from the dive shop?

Note: I've only used Silicon-based oil around my air guns . . . NEVER petroleum-based oil which degrades the seals.

Charging handle on Morini "locks-up"???

All input appreciated.

[Rover]

I put a little graphite on my cylinder threads. ? Could also be a deteriorating O-ring or probably just fung collected by your lube.

[atomicgale]

Occurs on BRAND NEW Morini Compact. Has done this from the get-go. Black film on threads of the PCP cylinder.

HYPOTHESIS: Is the air-pump the dive-guy has got a bad filter and pumps petroleum oil into the Scuba (then into the PCP cylinders) & THAT malfunctions AP?

++++++++++++

Side topic: Nano-lubrication

Graphite vs HBN

I use Hexagonal Boron-Nitride (hBN) as my dry lube. Particle size is 0.5 um (microns) in 98% pure form; supplied from MicroLubrol.

I use hBN vs. graphite, or Molybdenum disulfide, or Tungsten disulfide because:

1. hBN is hydrous neutral, Moly is hygrophilic attracting water
2. hBN is a white powder, so clean looking
3. use hBN on bullet coating and barrel prep
4. Getting Moly (or tungsten) on your hands & you don't get the black off for days
5. hBN is more pricey, but worth it

Also, Graphite doesn't work in a vacuum (ask NASA).

Planning on getting 70-nanometer particle size hBN at 99.5% pure from a Canadian defense contractor. Downside, shipping a pound of white powder across the Canadian Border. (Perhaps if they ship it to Mexico first, then bring it over the Wall - that would be quicker . . . but I digress . . . )

[atomicgale]

Problem to be Solved: Charging handle on Morini goes up 2/3rd's way - Then LOCKS UP! Is Bad Air to blame? Oil getting into gun?

[Rover]

I use the graphite because I have it. I use it occasionally for lubing the interior of case necks when reloading.

Oil from the dive shop would be a REALLY bad thing. Perhaps pneumonia in divers using that air.

I have to admit I've never seen anything as funky as your cylinders.

[william]

Gale, return the pistol wherever you got it, and demand they sort it out.

Rover, pneumonia from oil-contaminated air would be a good outcome. Catastrophic failure is more probable. Like graphite, molybdenum disulphide is black and extremely messy when it gets where it doesn't belong. I've used it on my cylinder threads for years with no ill effects

[atomicgale]

So this BLACK FUNK on the PCP cylinders is HIGHLY ABNORMAL? Is this the consensus?

(The reason the bad Scuba air diagnosis is critical . . . is that I've had TWO GUNS with this same funk . . . and EXACT same malfunction with the charging handle sticking.)

Please help.

[kevinweiho]

If your barrels are continously coming out with "black gunk" on cotton cleaning patches then you can blame the dive guy that’s pumping bad air in your cylinders..., but I think the culprit is overzealous lubrication and using silicon based oil is a NO-NO when there is metal to metal contact that might be getting into the threads and gunking up the charging handle.

Clean the threads with isopropyl alcohol (91% or higher) and relubricate with proper lubricants.

[atomicgale]

Kevin, what is your definition on "Proper Lubricant?"

I went with the Silicon oil to prevent any degradation on seals. I've VERY sparing on lube. The only oil on the AP's has been to clean up this "BLACK GUNK" and never in the chamber, barrel, or felt cleaning patches.

[Rover]

Why not phone the dive shop guy?

[atomicgale]

Trying to bail on the dive shop guy. I'm on the local fire department & our compressor is Out-of-Service (along with all our other gear - we're in the one of the poorest counties in Tennessee.)

I did clean off all the silicone oil w/ 99% isopropyl alcohol (mixed w/ trace amount of hBN). Then used dry PTFE (Teflon) to place a layer on the cylinder threads, all contacts, and the charging handle & the problem has (temporarily) abated. (I need to shoot some to prove this cure.)

I did completely bleed a 3/4 full Scuba thru a cotton T-shirt looking for oil - NONE!

Current Hypothesis: I over-lubed the system while being an over-tedious dumb-ass. I just can't figure out the "BLACK GUNK???"

+++++

I'd recommend hBN (hexagonal Boron Nitride) over graphite, or Moly, or Tungsten disulfide. hBN is a thousands times better.

Here's commercially available hBN. If the hBN / PTFE fix works, I'm dropping the coin for some 70-nanometer hBN from Canada.

.5 micron (currently unavailable):
https://www.amazon.com/MICROLUBROL-HEXA ... ywords=hBN

2.5 micron:
https://www.amazon.com/MICROLUBROL-HEXA ... ywords=hBN

[Rover]

Why not do like the rest of us..................nothing.

[atomicgale]

. . . . . because I have a nature of discovering all the ways that DON'T WORK first.

[David M]

Sounds like the black gunk on the threads is metal to metal galling.

[divingin]

I did completely bleed a 3/4 full Scuba thru a cotton T-shirt looking for oil - NONE!

That doesn't surprise me. If there was that much contaminant in breathing air, you'd have dead guys popping up all over the water.

FWIW, the silicone grease (clear) I use on my Hill pump is black by the time it scrapes off and collects at the bottom of the stroke.

[atomicgale]

"BUMP" - helping to solve leadbelly's problem with his 162EI.

[Leadbelly]

"BUMP" - helping to solve leadbelly's problem with his 162EI.

Thanks, I've already listed it to buy at Amazon.

[10M_Stan]

Silicone (oil and grease) has low lubricity between metals. That means a silicone oil or grease will not work well with metal threads. Elastomer seals generally benefit from silicone oils and greases.

Some greases work well with both metals and elastomeric seals. Super-Lube is one. Molykote 33 low temperature grease is another. Pilkguns provided a tube of Super-Lube with my Steyr air pistol. Less is more when using greases and only a thin film is needed.

SCUBA air is the best you will find.

Good luck!

[pilkguns]

Morini puts black moly grease on the threads from the factory. I would guess this is just still there in small quatities?

[atomicgale]

Definitely NO original moly grease, one 162EI was an '04 & only one was brand new. I definitely had light silicone oil thread-to-thread on the cylinders-to-adapter & the best running hypothesis is:

1. galling
2. black "Gunk" from silicone oil

The loading lever "locking-up" at 60-degrees: Best Hypothesis is "that pin" that engages when charging the pistol. This would explain why the loading lever moves completely freely after that first "lock-up" now described by THREE 162EI's on this forum.