Moving this topic to the top of the page.
The reason I consider the problems with the IZH-35 a design flaw is the small contact area between the "bolt" and the frame (compared to all the other .22 semi-automatics that I have.) The frame area appears to be cut away (those contour cuts on either side) this may make sense on the right side to keep the shell from "stove piping," but on the left? a shell shouldn't get there and would jam anyway. I know that there is some reason that it was done...I just don't know why. But when it was done there is only a small patch of steel that contacts the "bolt" face. And the bolt (at least on my one gun) is harder than the frame so the part that compresses in the battering is the frame (a very hard to replace part.) Perhaps if the frame contact patch were polished and heat treated it would stand up...I don't know.
The "thin rimmed" Russian round story...is OK if my IZH-35 had "doubled" out of the box. But as I said it took 5K rounds before it started and it gradually got worse (when it started it would accept some rounds and not others.)
So as an Aerospace Engineer and looking at the problem....My Opinion...and that is all that it is...is that it is a design problem. Or a heat treat problem (i.e. a manufacturing problem that a weak design and QC allowed.)
As the rest of the gun is brilliant. I really do like it. And as the Russians usually design "heck for stout" it is a puzzle.
JMHO.
Jim P.
.44015.0
The reason I consider the problems with the IZH-35 a design
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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Spencer C
what about safety?
Sitting on the side lines, I find some of the discussions on the IZH 35 puzzling.
If this problem with 'doubling' is fairly common with the IZH 35 why isn't the importer providing a 'fix' as part of the warranty? - Steve mentions $60 to have the problem fixed.
To old hands doubling may well be another problem to be solved - for newbies it is a potential safety flaw.
.44032.44015
If this problem with 'doubling' is fairly common with the IZH 35 why isn't the importer providing a 'fix' as part of the warranty? - Steve mentions $60 to have the problem fixed.
To old hands doubling may well be another problem to be solved - for newbies it is a potential safety flaw.
.44032.44015
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Steve
Re: what about safety?
Spencer,
To be more specific, the cost was $38 to ship the gun to EAA, and the $20 check they require to ship the gun back. In theory the repair was covered under warranty, although I'm not real happy about the $20. In comparison, Ruger always covered return shipping and Smith and Wesson covered shipping both ways.
I'm not sure if I would go as far as to say the gun has an inherent design flaw (maybe manufacturing issues). Even guns that don't double may still be marginal on headspace. The real test will be how long the "repaired" gun lasts before (if) it begins to exhibit problems. I did notice that there seems to be some wear on the barrel face (in comparison, the barrel and the bolt faces of my Pardini look virtually brand new, and that's after a good 3 or 4 thousand rounds).
It's a frustrating gun. It has the potential to be as good as any of the high end guns, but because of the safety issues I'd have a hard time recommending it to a new shooter.
Steve.
: Sitting on the side lines, I find some of the discussions on the IZH 35 puzzling.
: If this problem with 'doubling' is fairly common with the IZH 35 why isn't the importer providing a 'fix' as part of the warranty? - Steve mentions $60 to have the problem fixed.
: To old hands doubling may well be another problem to be solved - for newbies it is a potential safety flaw.
tenex-at-sbcglobal.net.44036.44032
To be more specific, the cost was $38 to ship the gun to EAA, and the $20 check they require to ship the gun back. In theory the repair was covered under warranty, although I'm not real happy about the $20. In comparison, Ruger always covered return shipping and Smith and Wesson covered shipping both ways.
I'm not sure if I would go as far as to say the gun has an inherent design flaw (maybe manufacturing issues). Even guns that don't double may still be marginal on headspace. The real test will be how long the "repaired" gun lasts before (if) it begins to exhibit problems. I did notice that there seems to be some wear on the barrel face (in comparison, the barrel and the bolt faces of my Pardini look virtually brand new, and that's after a good 3 or 4 thousand rounds).
It's a frustrating gun. It has the potential to be as good as any of the high end guns, but because of the safety issues I'd have a hard time recommending it to a new shooter.
Steve.
: Sitting on the side lines, I find some of the discussions on the IZH 35 puzzling.
: If this problem with 'doubling' is fairly common with the IZH 35 why isn't the importer providing a 'fix' as part of the warranty? - Steve mentions $60 to have the problem fixed.
: To old hands doubling may well be another problem to be solved - for newbies it is a potential safety flaw.
tenex-at-sbcglobal.net.44036.44032
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Spencer C
further
Steve,
Re your "but because of the safety issues I'd have a hard time recommending it to a new shooter". This is the second part of my 'puzzlement'.
Old timers take a lot of things in their stride (including hot casings inside the shirt - but the tribulations with the last shot out of the magazine on my venerable Hi-Standard are a different matter).
While induction and firearms safety programmes can initiate new shooters to handling malfunctions of the no-go-bang variety, unfortunately slam fires are one of those (hopefully) rare occurances that most of did not experience until long after our newbie nerves were well under control.
Related to this line, a pistol that will slam fire a second round will possibly do the same thing when the slide is dropped for the first round.
Spencer
.44038.44036
Re your "but because of the safety issues I'd have a hard time recommending it to a new shooter". This is the second part of my 'puzzlement'.
Old timers take a lot of things in their stride (including hot casings inside the shirt - but the tribulations with the last shot out of the magazine on my venerable Hi-Standard are a different matter).
While induction and firearms safety programmes can initiate new shooters to handling malfunctions of the no-go-bang variety, unfortunately slam fires are one of those (hopefully) rare occurances that most of did not experience until long after our newbie nerves were well under control.
Related to this line, a pistol that will slam fire a second round will possibly do the same thing when the slide is dropped for the first round.
Spencer
.44038.44036
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Jim P.
It will do that!
"Related to this line, a pistol that will slam fire a second round will possibly do the same thing when the slide is dropped for the first round"
You are correct there. It will do that! I can testify to that. Just not mentioned because as you suspect it is part of a "doubling" problem.
Certainly gets your attention.
I certainly wouldn't release the slide of any pistol that wasn't pointed in a safe direction...but that is basic gun safety isn't it?
Jim P.
.44051.44038
You are correct there. It will do that! I can testify to that. Just not mentioned because as you suspect it is part of a "doubling" problem.
Certainly gets your attention.
I certainly wouldn't release the slide of any pistol that wasn't pointed in a safe direction...but that is basic gun safety isn't it?
Jim P.
.44051.44038
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Steve
Re: further
Mine would fire upon slide release with 711. This was the primary reason I sent the gun back. One of the matches we often shoot is at a range where you shoot down a tunnel, and there is very little leeway before you hit an obstruction much closer than the 50 foot target distance. The other shooters on the line are actually well protected, but the shooter with the slam fire could have a bullet bounce back from 10 feet, not a very safe condition.
As a result, I don't drop the slide on this gun, I ease it forward into battery (I still do even with it fixed, I'm just a little paranoid).
On the positive side both my wife and I are more careful when we load on the line. It's a good lesson for the new and old shooters alike that you can't take safely for granted.
Steve.
: Steve,
: Re your "but because of the safety issues I'd have a hard time recommending it to a new shooter". This is the second part of my 'puzzlement'.
: Old timers take a lot of things in their stride (including hot casings inside the shirt - but the tribulations with the last shot out of the magazine on my venerable Hi-Standard are a different matter).
: While induction and firearms safety programmes can initiate new shooters to handling malfunctions of the no-go-bang variety, unfortunately slam fires are one of those (hopefully) rare occurances that most of did not experience until long after our newbie nerves were well under control.
: Related to this line, a pistol that will slam fire a second round will possibly do the same thing when the slide is dropped for the first round.
: Spencer
tenex-at-sbcglobal.net.44064.44038
As a result, I don't drop the slide on this gun, I ease it forward into battery (I still do even with it fixed, I'm just a little paranoid).
On the positive side both my wife and I are more careful when we load on the line. It's a good lesson for the new and old shooters alike that you can't take safely for granted.
Steve.
: Steve,
: Re your "but because of the safety issues I'd have a hard time recommending it to a new shooter". This is the second part of my 'puzzlement'.
: Old timers take a lot of things in their stride (including hot casings inside the shirt - but the tribulations with the last shot out of the magazine on my venerable Hi-Standard are a different matter).
: While induction and firearms safety programmes can initiate new shooters to handling malfunctions of the no-go-bang variety, unfortunately slam fires are one of those (hopefully) rare occurances that most of did not experience until long after our newbie nerves were well under control.
: Related to this line, a pistol that will slam fire a second round will possibly do the same thing when the slide is dropped for the first round.
: Spencer
tenex-at-sbcglobal.net.44064.44038