Hi All,
I've read a lot about importance of getting the sling to pull on the outside of the supporting arm to reduce brachial pulse, but I haven't found much advice online or in books on how to do this. There have been some nice threads in this forum suggesting rotating the sling cuff and/or changing the position of the cuff keeper, but that hasn't worked for me.
No matter what I do, I'm getting a fair amount of pressure on the inside of my sling arm in prone. I thought moving the handstop back to get the sling oriented more transverse to the barrel (causing the sling to pull more to the left rather than just backwards, for a right-handed shooter) would help, but it didn't make much difference and created new problems like not enough pressure between my shoulder and buttplate.
I'm wearing a Champion's Choice ISSF canvas shooting coat and have placed the coat's sling holder fairly high so that the sling is at the top of the rubber elbow pad. I'm using a Hata precision synthetic sling.
Please let me know what techniques can be used to get more sling tension on the outside of the supporting arm.
Thanks,
John
How to get sling to pull on outside arm in prone?
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Re: How to get sling to pull on outside arm in prone?
John,
setting up the sling so the cuff is symmetrical, i.e. each side of the strap pulls evenly on the cuff, and rotating the cuff so the strap is over your elbow, and the cuff itself pulls against the back of your arm if often recommended, because it does work to reduce pressure on the brachial artery for many shooters.
Since these aren't effective for you, could the sling be slipping around your arm? The cuff should not be really tight around your arm, and you do need space at the front so blood can circulate to your hand, but if it's dragging round you can fix it to the keeper. The rotation of the cuff needs to be precisely aligned, or the sling will pull unevenly on the jacket, dragging it down. Moving the handstop back, probably wouldn't alter where the sling pulled from if it was properly aligned; the angel of your arm to the rifle would change, but the sling should stay in the same place on your arm. What you found was that you effectively lengthened the sling, and lost tension.
How well does your jacket fit? Could it be slipping down your shoulder?
Do you have enough padding under the sling? In my experience cheaper jackets skimp on the rubber, and the pad doesn't extend high enough, so a high sling sits over the pad on the canvas. You may then need a thicker underlayer to compensate; a T Shirt won't cut it anyway. I'd also check whether the jacket is creasing under the sling; off-the-peg jackets tend to have wide sleeves, so there may be excess material to fold.
Thinking of sling height, have you tried varying the height of the sling? As I mentioned above, the rubber sleeve patches are often too low, but you can place the sling above the pad, which may move the sling further from the artery.
How is sling tension? Too much tension can make the cuff bite your arm. It's not true that more sling tension is always good, once the position is tight and stable.
You may consider the position more generally. Is your left arm straight, with the elbow beside the rifle, not under it? Does the angle of the upper arm, roughly mirror the fore-arm? I see many shooters hunched over the rifle, because the butt/handstop haven't been properly adjusted.
setting up the sling so the cuff is symmetrical, i.e. each side of the strap pulls evenly on the cuff, and rotating the cuff so the strap is over your elbow, and the cuff itself pulls against the back of your arm if often recommended, because it does work to reduce pressure on the brachial artery for many shooters.
Since these aren't effective for you, could the sling be slipping around your arm? The cuff should not be really tight around your arm, and you do need space at the front so blood can circulate to your hand, but if it's dragging round you can fix it to the keeper. The rotation of the cuff needs to be precisely aligned, or the sling will pull unevenly on the jacket, dragging it down. Moving the handstop back, probably wouldn't alter where the sling pulled from if it was properly aligned; the angel of your arm to the rifle would change, but the sling should stay in the same place on your arm. What you found was that you effectively lengthened the sling, and lost tension.
How well does your jacket fit? Could it be slipping down your shoulder?
Do you have enough padding under the sling? In my experience cheaper jackets skimp on the rubber, and the pad doesn't extend high enough, so a high sling sits over the pad on the canvas. You may then need a thicker underlayer to compensate; a T Shirt won't cut it anyway. I'd also check whether the jacket is creasing under the sling; off-the-peg jackets tend to have wide sleeves, so there may be excess material to fold.
Thinking of sling height, have you tried varying the height of the sling? As I mentioned above, the rubber sleeve patches are often too low, but you can place the sling above the pad, which may move the sling further from the artery.
How is sling tension? Too much tension can make the cuff bite your arm. It's not true that more sling tension is always good, once the position is tight and stable.
You may consider the position more generally. Is your left arm straight, with the elbow beside the rifle, not under it? Does the angle of the upper arm, roughly mirror the fore-arm? I see many shooters hunched over the rifle, because the butt/handstop haven't been properly adjusted.
Re: How to get sling to pull on outside arm in prone?
Hi Tim,
Thank you for the detailed advice; it was very helpful! I tried some of the things that you suggested and realized that I just wasn't rotating the cuff enough. When I rotated the cuff counter-clockwise( viewed from above) so that the sling keeper is nearly touching the coat's sling hook, I got much better pull from the outside/back of the cuff. I also lowered the cuff so that it was over a more padded area. The position feels much better, although there still is a small pulse in the sight picture. I also found the "Ways of the Rifle" to be very useful, but the book never mentions rotating the cuff (even though it has some text/photos on the importance of outside pull for the sling).
There are so many parameters that are interconnected, that trying to get the right position can be very challenging. Part of the problem is that I can get quite a few different positions to appear to work adequately, i.e., I'm equally bad in many positions, so I can't tell if I'm building on a solid position. I really appreciate your thoughtful advice and am happy to be part of a forum where members are so helpful!
Thanks again,
John
Thank you for the detailed advice; it was very helpful! I tried some of the things that you suggested and realized that I just wasn't rotating the cuff enough. When I rotated the cuff counter-clockwise( viewed from above) so that the sling keeper is nearly touching the coat's sling hook, I got much better pull from the outside/back of the cuff. I also lowered the cuff so that it was over a more padded area. The position feels much better, although there still is a small pulse in the sight picture. I also found the "Ways of the Rifle" to be very useful, but the book never mentions rotating the cuff (even though it has some text/photos on the importance of outside pull for the sling).
There are so many parameters that are interconnected, that trying to get the right position can be very challenging. Part of the problem is that I can get quite a few different positions to appear to work adequately, i.e., I'm equally bad in many positions, so I can't tell if I'm building on a solid position. I really appreciate your thoughtful advice and am happy to be part of a forum where members are so helpful!
Thanks again,
John
Re: How to get sling to pull on outside arm in prone?
Jeff,
Don't mention it.
Keep an eye on that pulse. It may be nothing, but received wisdom is that the sling should go very high, or very low. In the middle isn't common as it can pinch the bicep. Your slightly-lower-sling may still be high, and the pulse could come from your hand, but it's something to think about.
Don't mention it.
Keep an eye on that pulse. It may be nothing, but received wisdom is that the sling should go very high, or very low. In the middle isn't common as it can pinch the bicep. Your slightly-lower-sling may still be high, and the pulse could come from your hand, but it's something to think about.
Re: How to get sling to pull on outside arm in prone?
Can I ask a few pulse related questions?
Firstly, if the pulse was pushing shots out of the ten ring where would you expect the POI to be (ie 3 o'clock)?
Secondly, do slings like the MEC really remove all pulse (and therefore are they worth the money)?
thanks Bryan
Firstly, if the pulse was pushing shots out of the ten ring where would you expect the POI to be (ie 3 o'clock)?
Secondly, do slings like the MEC really remove all pulse (and therefore are they worth the money)?
thanks Bryan
Re: How to get sling to pull on outside arm in prone?
There is no set pattern. If I eat heavy food before shooting I get pulse. Watching it in the Noptel sometimes it is a triangle from 10 to 4 to 6 o'clock, but it will change with the position.
No, the sling will not remove all pulse. Besides, it may not all be coming though your bicep.
Mark
No, the sling will not remove all pulse. Besides, it may not all be coming though your bicep.
Mark
Re: How to get sling to pull on outside arm in prone?
Bryan,
There have been a few similar discussions before:
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... ilit=pulse
And some thoughts on the MEC:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46498&hilit=sling
That said a lot of Olympic team members use them. I tried making an ersatz MEC from an ESE sling, and while I like the single strap over my forearm, I found the cuff elongated under tension.
There have been a few similar discussions before:
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... ilit=pulse
And some thoughts on the MEC:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46498&hilit=sling
That said a lot of Olympic team members use them. I tried making an ersatz MEC from an ESE sling, and while I like the single strap over my forearm, I found the cuff elongated under tension.
Re: How to get sling to pull on outside arm in prone?
You don't give any idea as to your experience in shooting prone, or a photo, BUT if you have too flat a position and are lying on your stomach you can pick up your heartbeat from the aorta. That's why we pull the right leg (for right handed shooter) up slightly and rotate slightly onto our left side.The position feels much better, although there still is a small pulse in the sight picture.
Re: How to get sling to pull on outside arm in prone?
Thanks again for the helpful suggestions. Pat, my position is relatively high and I've rolled over a fair amount to the left side. I think most of the pulse is coming from the left upper arm. I have been looking in a mirror to check my positions, but agree that it would be helpful to take some photos of myself to compare with photos of better shooters. I'm too embarrassed to post photos of myself online!
Best wishes,
John
Best wishes,
John