1975 Victor wont chamber CCI SV ammo. Thoughts?

[jbshooter]

I have had CCI SV fault out in MG2 a few times. The round did not go all the way in. Cause was found to be the projectile not being square to the cartridge and lead scuffed over the edge of the case mouth.

[218bee]

Looks like a quality control issue to me, when %10 of the rounds chamber and the rest don't.

[Rover]

It's obvious that you just need a bigger hammer.

[BEA]

Well, if CCI SV does not work in this Victor, then the solution is an easy one. However, there is another way of looking at it, other than it necessarily being a quality issue. I assume that CCI manufactures their ammo per SAAMI specs. If their ammo is made to a max tolerance and your pistol chamber is cut to a minimum tolerance, then there are going to be times when those two tolerance work against each other in your pistol and it will not be 100% reliable. If you are having a 90% failure rate, I find it hard to believe that 90% of this ammo is out of the SAAMI spec. That would be an extraordinary failure rate, especially for ammo that has a respectable reputation for accuracy. I have shot a lot of CCI SV over the years and have never had issues with the ammo not chambering in my guns, but I have no old High Standards. I keep my guns very clean, some would argue too clean...I have seen that discussion and don't really bite off on it...but whatever. So, all the shooters out there who don't have chambering issues, and most do not, does this mean that perhaps their chambers are all out of spec on the high side so as to tolerate CCI SV...the lots with "quality control" issues? I don't think so. I admire the effort to cut tight chambers in order to inhance accuracy, or perhaps it is just the reamer being used at the time rather than a conscious effort. Either way, the obvious downside is reduced reliability. A semi auto system needs a certain amount of "slop" to work reliably. Ever had a new 1911 wad gun that wouldn't work 100% because it was "too tight?" Did you blame it on the ammo, or wait for the gun to loosen up a little? (Rhetorical question). Well, it is a bit different to loosen up a 22 semi auto, and unless you have a real problem that renders the gun useless, I don't recommend monkeying with 22 chambers. I think the bottom line here is that you have a fine old gun, made back in a time when companies/craftsmen were more concerned with accuracy and tight tolerances. This gun was made to be a top performer on the bullseye line. High Standard was going head to head with the SW Model 41 and bragging rights were at stake. Consequently, it is picky about ammo. I am not so quick to claim the ammo has quality issues, but sometimes no doubt they do, but considering they run millions of rounds per day, I think that it is pretty good stuff. I hope you find some ammo that makes this gun tick like the fine Swiss watch that it is. Good shooting.

[218bee]

Well, found some ammo the Victor absolutely loves. I had an old 5K case of 1990's vintage Remington Military contract 40 gr. SV (1100 fps) that I bought from the CMP years ago when they were $90. They came hermetically sealed in long term VCI foil. Cracked it open the other day and it passed the Plunk test with flying colors. Then ran a few hundred rounds through the Victor, without a hiccup. %100 chambering/firing/ejection with both mags that came with the pistol. A real joy to shoot. I believe it is the old-style, rounder projectile mentioned earlier in this thread, not the smaller CCI profile.
Very accurate too. I know it's not Match ammo, but I am steel plate shooter and it's about perfect for what I need. Just happy to get the gun back in the game. Will sell or burn up the CCI in my other pistols. (4,950 rounds left) I am still disappointed, but in the grand scheme these are good problems, when the smoke clears. Thanks for all your advice, guys, (and your emails, Mr. Alexander)...I appreciate all the help..
I mic'ed the CCI ammo and the bullet was .2245"... A little big and a little greasy. The Rem stuff below is dryer for sure.
I'll agree with BEA, the CCI is big and the Victor chamber is tight. Just one of those things I guess. We move on..
Here's the CMP ammo;

[machinist mike]

I went thru almost 4 cases of the surplus SV 22 from the cmp. Got rid of the last 2 cases because I was getting to many misfires. It was very accurate stuff but at almost 5% misfires I couldn't use it in a match. Remember, it was surplused out for a reason.

[218bee]

I hear ya Mike...... I don't know..All I know is the Rem SV so far is %100 reliable, consistent and sure-fire in this particular pistol. That's with loading the mags with full 10 rounds, too. Also easily as accurate as the CCI. Only been about 300 rounds of Rem, but I couldn't even get through a single magazine without a jam with the CCI, and only %10 of the rounds actually chambered. I will report back if things go south, but so far so good w/ the Rem..

[Rover]

We've all learned something here.

[Kirmdog]

When every other ammo chambers and CCI SV doesn't I'm sorry to brake the news but it's the CCI SV ammo. Everybody has lapses in QC even CCI. I have used CCI SV for decades and never had a problem until I got two different lots that where made in the so called "ammo shortage". Just the facts, it's the CCI SV not the gun.


Kirmdog

[BEA]

What are your lot numbers? I will see what info I can dig up, if anything. And, was your CCI SV in the 100 plastic pack or the 50 round paper box?

[Kirmdog]

What are your lot numbers? I will see what info I can dig up, if anything. And, was your CCI SV in the 100 plastic pack or the 50 round paper box?

Two lots numbers F13W89 and D07V51. both 50 round paper box.

Thanks
Kirmdog

[BEA]

Is the product number 0035? And, is the cartridge tray just a flat piece of plastic or does it have legs on it?

[Kirmdog]

Is the product number 0035? And, is the cartridge tray just a flat piece of plastic or does it have legs on it?

Product # 00035 and it's just a flat piece of plastic. NO legs

Kirmdog

[218bee]

Just FYI, mine's the same thing, blue paper box with one piece flat plastic, no legs.
Lot# K27X89. My bullets mic .2245".

[Kirmdog]

I measured a box of 50 and they range from a small of .2231" to a large of .2245" Lot# F13W89
The other lot # D07V51 ranges from a small of .2228" to a large of .2245" for 50

What I have not done is to mic the cases about 2/3 of the way down where they seem to hang up and see if there is any difference in diameter at that point. I will give this a try tomorrow.


Kirmdog

[oldcaster]

Check to make sure the firing pin hasn't hit the back of the chamber. Any time a firing pin is replaced in one of these guns, it has to be fitted so it won't peen the rear of the chamber which would cause the problem you have. I suppose it is possible that this could have been incorrect when it came from the factory and no one caught it. If this isn't your problem, then see if you can get a of box of Armscor to try as it might solve your problems. I don't care much for the way they are packaged but they shoot very similar to CCI SV seeming to be hotter than they actually are. I would guess they use a fast powder and that is why it seems that way but the velocity is almost identical to CCI which is slower than Aguila SV but seems to have less recoil. The are only around $300 a case and getting cheaper by the week.

[218bee]

Hi Oldcaster;
Chamber face is perfect. No dry fire ding and chamber and bore have been scrubbed & chamber Flitz polished. Physically can't get any cleaner. Pistol is almost brand new. Have found several different ammo brands that drop right in and fall right out. Pretty clear now that it's the lot of CCI ammo I bought as I get a %90 failure to chamber rate with them, and can't get through a magazine without a jam.. If the other ammo behaved the same, it would be a different story, but , with other shooters telling the same story, it's hard to not blame the ammo at this point. It all goes bang, and is accurate, but a little big for my Victors chamber it seems. Will run it in my other guns or sell it, but can't use it in the Victor.

[CR10X]

Kinda hate to say it but.....

Told you.

Now, on to shooting!

CR

[Kirmdog]

Just as a side note to all of this. The CCI SV lots that I have also chamber hard ( go in about 1/2 way and need a thumb push to seat) in my S&W 617 revolver, the majority of them will NOT drop in the cylinder on their own.

Too bad because now I have a little under 2 cases of practice ammo. Shoots great and is very accurate but it's alibi city when I use it in matches.

I've yet to mic the cases which I will do later today. If it shows a problem I will be contacting CCI to see what they have to say.

Kirmdog

[218bee]

Yeah, CR...you were right. And thanks for the tip about the Remington ammo. Almost forgot I had it.. So far it's perfect. Can't with good conscience buy CCI SV ammo anymore, at least not in bulk. Lost my trust. I might contact them too, Kirm..