Speed of Izh vs. Steyr

[Houngan]

I finally went to a big boy gun this month, and after getting used to it my IZH sounds woefully underpowered. That might well be the various comps on the Steyr, but the target tears indicate it is definitely slower.

Question: is the IZH supposed to be in the neighborhood of a PCP gun, or might I need to do some maintenance?

[v76]

The problem with the izh is that you need to constantly lube the piston and breech seals for it to have optimal velocity. IIRC, mine shot at around 485-490 with 7gr, which is pretty much the same as what my Morini is set at. No tears with good, dry targets.

[Rover]

It would help a lot if you'd stop using crap targets. But, you're right, it is slow.

We're using two Walther LPM1 and a Pardini K58 in my club and they cut perfect holes in decent targets, BUT they're doing 480-490 fps.

[DFWdude]

All Single Stroke Pneumatics are limited in the amount of power -- hence velocity -- they can produce. They are limited by the volume of air they can practically compress within the frame of the pistol and expel with a single shot. Accordingly, you will find older SSPs (FAS604, Pardini P10, etc) shooting in the 380-420fps range. Larger volume SSPs (like Pardini K-58, FWB100, the Izzy, and others) shooting 450-490fps. But that's about it.

In theory, an SSP could be designed with more compression chamber volume to produce more pressure = velocity. But the size of the pistol that results will impact the handling capability and weight of the pistol.

In contrast, the various CO2 pistols, followed by most if not all the PCPs are limited only by regulated pressures of compressed gases, which can shoot a wider range of velocities. Some choose to shoot their CO2/PCPs at 500fps (a waste, IMO). But all these pistols can be usefully tuned to shoot 560fps (standard velocity for my LP10 as received) to as much as 600-610fps. It's all shooter preference, based on how well the shooter thinks they can hold the pistol throughout the shot and follow-through.

And, of course, the higher the velocity the louder the report.

The older pneumatics required well developed follow-through techniques, because the 380-420fps velocites were slow enough to flinch shots. The faster the barrel time (with the PCPs) means the pistol is more forgiving of follow-through. Not to mention better cutting of holes in the paper, other benefits, etc.

In short, IZH-46 velocity is not supposed to be in the neighborhood of a PCP gun, nor is it likely that it ever can be. You should Chronograph both to appreciate the difference.

[slofyr]

It would help a lot if you'd stop using crap targets. ....

Lower velocity air pistols cut clean holes with Kruger targets https://tinyurl.com/pt88mwe

[jaxontarget]

I've got an IZH 46M and an LP2, and have noticed the same. My IZH was at Pyramid / Air Venturi not long ago for a complete rebuild and they tested it prior to return at a bit over 400. Ragged holes with the IZH and an audible difference in speed at 10M using AirShot targets (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IZ ... UTF8&psc=1). I would not, however, say that the accuracy of the former is noticeably different as far as my scores, though so many other things may be at play. The weight, balance and feel of the IZH are obviously a very significant factor, with the weight of the LP2 being significantly less, and the balance being different. I'm using a red dot on the 46M and open sights on the Steyr which exaggerates those differences as well. The Steyr fits me better all around, but I seem to shoot as well with the 46M, while I think I may get fatigued sooner. I say use whatever works for you, and I would not think based on what you are describing that the IZH necessarily required maintenance. If you do need 46M maintenance I would recommend Gene Salvino at Air Venturi. He was very responsive and overall they were fast at getting my rebuild completed and returned.

[PhatMan]

Hello to All,

My IZH-46M does ca. 465 fps. with JSB Match Green (7.33 gr.), and cuts clean holes with Kruger targets.

(For comparison my FWB 65 also does ca. 465 fps, and my Diana 10 does ca. 433 fps with the JSB Match 7.33 gr. - the Diana cuts clean holes in the Kruger targets).

+1 on Rovers comments about using quality targets :)

Have fun & a good Sunday :)

Best regards

Russ

[kevinweiho]

Question: is the IZH supposed to be in the neighborhood of a PCP gun, or might I need to do some maintenance?

It depends whether your pistol is the normal IZH 46 or "46M" version. My 46M shoots around 450-500 fps., and is able to cleanly cut round holes on the targets.

A clear sign that the pistol is loosing velocity is when the pellet smacks the steel plate with less force, you can actually hear the difference.

[nglitz]

No points for velocity. Only for accuracy.

[kevinweiho]

No points for velocity. Only for accuracy.

True, but the extra velocity helps in reducing the shot time, thus increasing accuracy.

[Rover]

BS

[Houngan]

BS

Why is it, do you think, you're like this?

[DFWdude]

Houngan, some people just like to live in the past.

When the first CO2 APs appeared on the firing line, people dropped their the slow SSPs and piston guns (like FWB65) like hot potatoes. It took forever to sell my FAS604 and my Pardini P10... And as a Pardini dealer at that time, the Pardini P10 was instantly dropped once the 50fps faster K58 came available. Even so, I sold more than 100 K60 CO2s for every single K58 SSP.

I qualified for, and competed in the 1990 US Shooting Championships... 140 AP shooters, not a single SSP on the line.

One need only shoot one of the other airgun sports, like Field Target, to appreciate the fact that higher velocities are more beneficial than slower.

[hundert]

Today for every K60 you will sell a 100 K58 pistols, there is a crazy demand for them right now. And because the manufacturing costs are exactly the same as PCP, nobody sells them and the prices for used ones are sky high. I'd love to own one, never even seen the K58.

[Rover]

"True, but the extra velocity helps in reducing the shot time, thus increasing accuracy."

THIS is the BS, NOT the type of AP you're using.

Where do you guys find this stuff?

[kevinweiho]

"True, but the extra velocity helps in reducing the shot time, thus increasing accuracy."

THIS is the BS, NOT the type of AP you're using.

Where do you guys find this stuff?

Really? How many real world off hand competitions were won by high velocity vs. low velocity air pistols?

The BS is coming from your mouth, not mine.

[j-team]

More velocity doesn't mean more accuracy. Optimum velocity equals more accuracy.

Fast lock time and fast barrel time is desired by those that wait till the sights are aligned then whack the trigger. For those that hold and squeeze these things are less critical.

[kevinweiho]

More velocity doesn't mean more accuracy. Optimum velocity equals more accuracy.

Fast lock time and fast barrel time is desired by those that wait till the sights are aligned then whack the trigger. For those that hold and squeeze these things are less critical.

I concur that optimum velocity equals more accuracy, that is why most high end match air pistols allow you to adjust the velocity.

Low velocity air pistols are great for strengthening your fundamentals. Elite air pistol shooters are not gods. They also flinch and can benefit from pistols that have faster lock and barrel times.

[Rover]

Lock times and barrel times are two VERY different things. The difference in BARREL times between low velocity and high velocity APs is around 1/100 of a second. How are YOUR reflexes?

[Houngan]

Lock times and barrel times are two VERY different things. The difference in BARREL times between low velocity and high velocity APs is around 1/100 of a second. How are YOUR reflexes?

True, but you can equally ask, how good is your trigger control? There's a lot that can go on in a hundredth of a second, I can run a revolver double action down to .16. (Not in bullseye, obviously.)

The main difference I saw in going back to the izzy from the Steyr was how much second stage creep increased, plenty of time to screw up.