You would be lucky to get $650 for one in NZL. If I see one I might buy it to export!
And, I agree with tenMetrePeter, if you want to go the PCP way, get a dive tank and be done with it. Better for you and better for the gun. I was told by a repairer of airguns that virtually all the leaking cylinders he repaired were the ones filled by the hand pumps.
j-team wrote:And, I agree with tenMetrePeter, if you want to go the PCP way, get a dive tank and be done with it. Better for you and better for the gun. I was told by a repairer of airguns that virtually all the leaking cylinders he repaired were the ones filled by the hand pumps.
If that's true, do you think it's hand pumps in general or user error? Because I've seen plenty of people on youtube channels use the pumps improperly (pumping too fast, not allowing the air time to shift from the pump to the cylinder, not bleeding off, etc.)
j-team wrote:And, I agree with tenMetrePeter, if you want to go the PCP way, get a dive tank and be done with it. Better for you and better for the gun. I was told by a repairer of airguns that virtually all the leaking cylinders he repaired were the ones filled by the hand pumps.
If that's true, do you think it's hand pumps in general or user error? Because I've seen plenty of people on youtube channels use the pumps improperly (pumping too fast, not allowing the air time to shift from the pump to the cylinder, not bleeding off, etc.)
Not really sure. Could be those reasons you list and/or people removing filters and allowing humidity in? SCUBA air is filtered and dry.
People list all sorts of crap on gunbroker for ridiculous prices. I've seen that with shotguns as well. A Browning Citori Lightning was up there for 3800. Last ten auctions had sold for around 12-1700.
Have seen a few PCPs on the buy/sell here. but have not decided to pull the trigger as of yet ..pardon the pun.
Am still antsy about the scuba thing and associated costs. Have looked at Ebay, seen alot of stuff there.. tanks old and new, various sizes, gauges and what not. Any links to where I can get GOOD info about suitable tanks type, styles, sizes, etc for PCP usage? Am in a land locked region of TX but does have a scuba shop but not sure if they do hydrostat testing of used tanks. So in a quandary on that front.
Are 2 fully charged cylinders ok for a full 3day event? example WAG. Is one cylinder ok?
Are charged cylinders ok to fly with in checked baggage? Or generally speaking charging available at events? (national/regional, etc, not that I am at that level yet.)
I pretty much know you cant fly with a charged scuba tank.
And on the matter of electronic triggers..I have no clue about them..how they work and if there is a real benefit vs a mech trigger (not to open a can of worms here, I'd rather stay on topic..LOL). I have no experience with E triggers, adjustments, etc, how they work, supposed to work and the cost benefit analysis.
Did I read that the SSP FWB 103? or was it 603 is easier to pump than other HQ SSPs? Or was I miss reading?
I do not have the $$ burning a hole in my pocket yet..have a lot to consider yet. Not in a rush.
Good call on not pulling the trigger. You can't take back bad shots. Also, welcome to the fun of picking up this sport. I have had my research skills severely tested (and I consider myself a professional researcher) by piecing together information about PCP equipment.
If you have no experience I suggest you stick with a mechanical trigger and learn exactly how it works. Most U.S. citizens are not used to the two-stage trigger concepts (or the measurements and adjustment involved), so don't feel bad about not knowing what you need.
GWSB is a great example on this forum of someone with high degree of mechanical expertise and can explain triggers better than I can. But as to why you should get a mechanical trigger, I believe that you (a) don't know what you want in a trigger; and (b) need to learn what you want. This will be easier to understand with a mechanical trigger than an electronic one. Also, as you've probably noticed, airguns don't grow on trees around here. Having something that is durable is a plus.
I can't speak about national events as I haven't been to one. I'm sure someone else can address that.
As to pcp diving cylinders in general...*sigh*. It's complicated. Diving Cylinders purchased in the U.S. will have a U.S. connector. Air pistols use the BAR/DIN system, which is European. I'll leave this to someone who someone who uses a cylinder regularly to explain, as I use a hand pump.
well I have used mech triggers for a long long time, Winchester, 52, Anschutz 54, Colt Hbar for HP, Browning Buckmark for bulleye, IZH46 for AP. ..plus afew other here and there. Lots of trigger time..more than I care to admit to at this time..LOL.
Just kinda need the ups and downs on the mech vs e trigger. More mech's around than e's. but if a great deal is around for a E..I am game to explore me thinks.
Just a glutton for punishment in shooting and on this board too.
From my not-so-lofty position as a beginner, I don't see a damn bit of difference, to be honest.
In one, you pull the trigger, and the gun fires. In the other, you pull the trigger, and the gun fires. In one, a mechanical connection is made. In the other, a wire sends an electronic signal.
That leaves the question of whether or not it affects the user interface. I say no, and I say no based on two reasons: one from just "armchairing it" and another from previous experience in the mechanical versus electric debate in the pipe organ world (I used to play pipe organ).
As to armchairing it: unless you can do things with an electronic trigger that you cannot do with a regular trigger, I see no point. In a rapid-fire pistol, it makes a lot of sense to use an electronic trigger because you can dry fire multiple shots without recocking the action. In a single shot, there is no difference.
As to my previous experience: mechanical actions were replaced with electronic as pipe organs got so large (some were the size of football fields) that moving the keys became a chore. That's pretty much the only reason that occured, because mechanical action allowed for a subtlety to touch that you could not get with an electronic keyboard. The "break" of a pipe organ was crisp in mechanical and mushy with electric. Mechanical actions made a resurgence in the 1960s with baroque music, and to me at least, the action is clearly superior for small pipe organs. Similarly, a gun is pretty small.
Xman:
Let me try to answer some of your questions.
You cannot fly with a charged cylinder.
Most ranges with active AP will have some provision for air. OTC does for WAG. I believe they have air at the Desert midwinter.
Different guns get differing number of shots per cylinder, depending on size, and the pressure to which it is filled.
Some of the short, or junior cylinders may only give 100 shots, or fewer if not max filled. On the other end, my full size Pardini cylinders (that can be filled to 250 bar), give more than 200 shots. I don't count on 200 in competition though. I do feel confident that one cylinder will last one match (60 shots, + sighters, plus 24 shot final ( ok, I've never actually fired 24 shots in a final yet, but I have fired 20).
Pilkguns has a pretty good writeup on scuba on their website, and they sell the various adapters.
Many fire departments have 300+ bar air available. I have an in at one, but haven't made the investment yet.
I use a Hill pump, and take it with me to matches and training.
I won't get into the electric v mechanical arguement, I have a mechanical, but have never done more than a few shots with electric.
Xman for God's sake have the shoulder fixed . It is a bitch of a surgery and rehab but it is totally worth it and the tear and probable bone spurs will only get worse.
The best part is, after the rehab it doesn't hurt and the lifts that the physical therapist recommends almost certainly include low weights and many sets and reps. That's right. 1 kg weight lifted about 30 times building to 60 reps. Sounds like an air pistol to me and the best part is, you can say to your SO, "but honey the therapist recommended I get an air pistol to help my shoulder."
Hello Xman,
It seems you are quite happy with your Izzy, so why change?
To me the only valid reason is the ease of operating: no work-out with a PCP. If you want a top AP, choose among the leading manufactures. They are quality wise equal. I would advise a pistol that is the closest in weight and balance to what you are used to.
In order to refill the PCP cartridge there are different options.
Most of the shooting ranges in Belgium have compressed air cylinders available to the shooters, or you can buy a scuba diving cylinder to do the re-fill at home or if you like the work-out a pump.
The cylinders are dated and valid for 10 years. Are they dangerous after that limit date? I don't think so, but I guess after that time you will change them just for your piece of mind.
If possible and to make your choice easier, ask a club member to shoot his pistol, if possible different makes, just to get the feeling.
An AP is quite an investment, so take you time!
Good luck,
Guy
Well I'm bored so I'll chime in. I too started of with an Izzy, but the dang grip hurt my hand and the cocking got old fast. I would have had to do some serious removal of wood to get that Izzy grip anywhere near comfortable, which I didn't want to hassle with. So I sold it here and bought a new Steyer LP-10 from Pilk. Buying and using the scuba tank was a piece of cake. I just drove down to my local sporting goods (Sports Chalet), grabbed a new clear color tank out off the floor, signed a waiver I wasn't going to dive with it and I was out the door. Called Scott at Pilk and told him I needed the fittings for my new scuba tank and they were at my doorstep by the end of the week.
After several months I decided I didn't like the LP-10, so I put it here on the classifieds and sold it in less than 24 hrs with very minimal loss as I kept it in mint condition. I used the money for a firearm I'd been wanting for a long time, and gave up air pistol for several years to concentrate on my firearms hobby.
This past year before the Olympics I got the urge to take up air pistol again. This time I decided to try a Morini instead of a Steyer, and Scott at Pilk sold me a new Morini 162ei. I like this pistol a lot better, and have no plans on selling it anytime soon, but I know if I burn out on it again I'll have no problem selling it here, especially since I'm certified OCD and treat all my arms with kit gloves.
I'd pick one of the popular models of the well known desireable brand pistols, get a scuba tank and the fittings from Pilk, and give it a try. Keep the gun in primo shape, and if you don't like it or burn out you can sell it here on the classifieds with very little loss like I did.
Well, since you guys seem so concerned about my opinion I guess I'll chime in.
First, I've been pursuing the elusive wapiti in the snowy mountains of central Arizona (and gasping for air) and getting a buzz on.
My objection to the new PCPs has always been one of cost to the newer or poorer shooter (not that I think they confer any real advantage). So go ahead and buy whatever you like, but don't think you're buying any points over the older guns.
And yes, Phoenix R&G offers free PCP air, CO2, and dry desert air for SSPs at the Desert Midwinter (you few, you lucky few). Come see us, gobble Mex food and beer, and be happy!!!
Rover wrote:
My objection to the new PCPs has always been one of cost to the newer or poorer shooter (not that I think they confer any real advantage). So go ahead and buy whatever you like, but don't think you're buying any points over the older guns.
Oh I know you cant buy points in AP via equipment..its too unforgiving unlike SBR..now there you could buy a few points in that damn equipment race they have going. One of the reasons I kinda got out if it years ago.
Still considering a PCP..but maybe down the road a bit now. Gonna save the $$$ and find more shoots I can get to, buy some shooting glasses for AP to enhance my sight pic. As far as my shoulder goes, just keep poppin the pills as needed especially for the endurance matches over long weekends.
If you shoot a Gamo Compact you CAN buy more points with more $$. Buy the best then its all down to your skill.
Buy cheap and you never know if you can do better.
Xman wrote:Add to that the costs of a scuba tank at about 225 (maybe) and the yoke adapters at maybe 150, ...
A used tank from a local dive shop will likely go for around $150US and come with current inspections (annual) and filled ($10 to $15). Yoke adapters can be had on ebay for anywhere from $20 to $180 for identical pieces. There are 200 bar and 300 bar DIN fittings. The vast majority of AP use 200 bar. Or the dive shop can change the tank valve to a DIN valve. After ten years (or 15? I forgot), the shops will insist on a special inspection that magnafluxes the valve threads for cracking. after that it's probably worth getting another, newer used tank.
